Hi Everyone
My husband is in the process of negotiating a contract with a consultancy firm in Germany. If he is successfull, it sounds like we will most likely be based in Düsseldorf or surrounding area. I will only start looking for work once the kids have settled in.
I'm having sleepless nights on if we will ever fit into the European way of life. My eldest child is 5 and do not even speak English. Our home language is Afrikaans. None of us (hubby included) can speak any German. The reason he wants this job is that they intend to open an office in the USA in 2 years time and would like my husband to be part of that team.
Any other South Africans out there that can give me some encouragement regarding the move? Am I too anxious about this? Did you adjust easily? Is it really THAT different from living in South Africa (except for the crime - but we haven't experienced much of the lawlessness and crime in our rural town yet)?
I've read so many things on this website regarding rules and laws regarding accommodation rentals and emmissions from cars, etiquette when talking to or greeting people etc, etc that I'm scared we will be in WAY over our head.
Is there not a book out there like Germany rules and regulations for Dummies?
Regards
Emmarentia
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Culture shock for South Africans moving to Germany
Anyone here have experiences or advice to share?
QUOTE (Ems @ Oct 23 2007, 11:01 pm) 
Is there not a book out there like Germany rules and regulations for Dummies?
Germans have books on rules and regulations for almost everything so I'd have thought there was a dummies one somewhere.
I think the biggest concern when moving to a new country is having a regular income. If you are sponsered by a company then that is the largest worry out of the way.
The rest mostly depends on you and your family's willingness to adapt. It is important to make a real effort to learn the language becuase that is the key to making a lot of things easier. You will feel less lost and you won't be dependant on people to get things done for you. Seeing that you speak Afrikans, I think that will still give you a distinct advantage to learning the language quickly in spite of your doubts.
Then it is just getting used to different foods, customs and idiosyncracies of the culture here. For some people it is not easy (a few select few never adapt) but on whole I have to say it is a very rewarding experience and one which you will most likely not regret. There are thousands of new things to discover and see here as well as gaining a few insights into an alternative ways of thinking and doing things. This can be/is a great place to live.
Most of the rules you pick up on a as needed basis. eg. if you need to register a car then you'll have to go through the steps for doing that, same as any country really, just in Germany there are lots of regulations. People live their lives just fine here too.
Crime here is non-existant compared to SA. I can only envision that as a blessing and great for you and your kids.
If you are only here for two years then I am sure the time will fly by.
Yes if you google for "of German ways" you get a few hits on books that are available.
Wishing you luck in your move
The rest mostly depends on you and your family's willingness to adapt. It is important to make a real effort to learn the language becuase that is the key to making a lot of things easier. You will feel less lost and you won't be dependant on people to get things done for you. Seeing that you speak Afrikans, I think that will still give you a distinct advantage to learning the language quickly in spite of your doubts.
Then it is just getting used to different foods, customs and idiosyncracies of the culture here. For some people it is not easy (a few select few never adapt) but on whole I have to say it is a very rewarding experience and one which you will most likely not regret. There are thousands of new things to discover and see here as well as gaining a few insights into an alternative ways of thinking and doing things. This can be/is a great place to live.
Most of the rules you pick up on a as needed basis. eg. if you need to register a car then you'll have to go through the steps for doing that, same as any country really, just in Germany there are lots of regulations. People live their lives just fine here too.
Crime here is non-existant compared to SA. I can only envision that as a blessing and great for you and your kids.
If you are only here for two years then I am sure the time will fly by.
Yes if you google for "of German ways" you get a few hits on books that are available.
Wishing you luck in your move
Hi, there! My wife and I have moved last year with our two daughters aged 6 and 4 from South Africa to Germany. Although it was a big culture schock in the beginning and we had to cope with all the new laws and rules that governs German lifestyle, after one year we are starting to settle into the routines.
Both our daughters could speak English as well as Afrikaans when we arrived but it will not help as basically all the teachers and children in the kindergartens can only speak German. Today our oldest daughter is in a German school and can speak German very well and ouryoungest are also learning to speak German, just by going to the Kindergarten every day.
I am saying all of this as I believe children are quick learners and will pick up the new language very easy. A lot of people have tolled me that children will learn a new language quickly and I did not believe them but after witnissing the ease with wich they picked up the new language I know it is true.
One of our biggest hurdles were shopping. You just can not find groceries that you are used to in South Africa. If you like baking rusks or other food that require self raising flour, forget it you will not find it here. My biggest mistake was not bringing enough supplies of Milo and Marmite when we moved. We are now driving to Netherlands once a month to buy all the groceries we are used to. The Shops in Netherland are much more like the shops you will find in South Africa.
We live close to Cologne but I believe that Düsseldorf is a bit more easy to get a long in without German. Where we live, you can do nothing and you cannot get anything done if you do not speak german. It is a bit like going to England without being able to speak English.
In the end I am glad we came, but I cannot wait to go back to Sunny, World Cup Winning, South Africa
Both our daughters could speak English as well as Afrikaans when we arrived but it will not help as basically all the teachers and children in the kindergartens can only speak German. Today our oldest daughter is in a German school and can speak German very well and ouryoungest are also learning to speak German, just by going to the Kindergarten every day.
I am saying all of this as I believe children are quick learners and will pick up the new language very easy. A lot of people have tolled me that children will learn a new language quickly and I did not believe them but after witnissing the ease with wich they picked up the new language I know it is true.
One of our biggest hurdles were shopping. You just can not find groceries that you are used to in South Africa. If you like baking rusks or other food that require self raising flour, forget it you will not find it here. My biggest mistake was not bringing enough supplies of Milo and Marmite when we moved. We are now driving to Netherlands once a month to buy all the groceries we are used to. The Shops in Netherland are much more like the shops you will find in South Africa.
We live close to Cologne but I believe that Düsseldorf is a bit more easy to get a long in without German. Where we live, you can do nothing and you cannot get anything done if you do not speak german. It is a bit like going to England without being able to speak English.
In the end I am glad we came, but I cannot wait to go back to Sunny, World Cup Winning, South Africa
The biggest shock to me was the unbelievably crap weather. It also never really gets bright outside, not even in summer and not like in SA. I know both Cologne and Düsseldorf and unfortunately have to tell you that the weather isn't any better there either. If I were you I'd do my best to move onto the US a.s.a.p.
Oh, and they don't have peppermint crisp chocolate here either.
Oh, and they don't have peppermint crisp chocolate here either.
QUOTE (A3aan @ Oct 25 2007, 5:07 pm)
If you like baking rusks or other food that require self raising flour, forget it you will not find it here.
This must be the LEAST of your problems. For baking buy "550" flour and add the appropriate amount of baking powder (=Backpulver).
After 2 years here, you won't want to go the US anymore.
I lived in Munich for five years - arrived when my daughter was three and had my son in Munich a short while later. I made a mistake of putting my daughter into an English, Spanish and German school thinking that it was easier for her easing her into the German language - all she did was gravitate towards the English speaking kids and learnt next to no German. It was awful for her to be amongst German children in playgrounds etc when she couldnt speak German! I then decided to put her into a normal German kindergarten (government ones are WAY WAY superior to our SA government schools!). She learnt to speak German pretty fluently in six months. It was amazing! I enjoyed the fact that there were so many lovely playgrounds and facilities for kids that werent filled with bums and lunch break guys lying on the grass..you know what I mean...
I enjoyed getting onto a train and bus - things my daughter had never done before - and havent done since we returned for obvious reasons. I loved the old buildings and preservation of culture and heritage. I loved the traditions and parties and carnivals. I loved the varitey of foods (although different to what I was used to) and the markets. I loved the fact that in winter (at least in Munich) most glum days were rewarded with snow.
What I didnt like was being made to feel as if you were foreign - some people are great but some really give you sh*t for being foreign. I had some people be really rude but you soon realise that they are the minority. Food is really expensive I found and once you have stopped converting from Rands to Euros things get easier! Driving on the "wrong" side of the road is difficult at first but you need not stress about that at first as transporatation infrastructure is better than you will believe. The country is beautiful in my opinion and I am totally sad that I had to return to South Africa and miss Germany a lot even after a half year of being home.
Oh and the bank tellers do nto stand behind bullet proof glass - that I found really weird at first! Afrikaans did not help me that much - but try and do courses to get some German behind you as soon as possible. It is just a really different way of living - very free compared to South Africa although when my mom visited she said it was very much the way South Africa USED to be like.
I enjoyed getting onto a train and bus - things my daughter had never done before - and havent done since we returned for obvious reasons. I loved the old buildings and preservation of culture and heritage. I loved the traditions and parties and carnivals. I loved the varitey of foods (although different to what I was used to) and the markets. I loved the fact that in winter (at least in Munich) most glum days were rewarded with snow.
What I didnt like was being made to feel as if you were foreign - some people are great but some really give you sh*t for being foreign. I had some people be really rude but you soon realise that they are the minority. Food is really expensive I found and once you have stopped converting from Rands to Euros things get easier! Driving on the "wrong" side of the road is difficult at first but you need not stress about that at first as transporatation infrastructure is better than you will believe. The country is beautiful in my opinion and I am totally sad that I had to return to South Africa and miss Germany a lot even after a half year of being home.
Oh and the bank tellers do nto stand behind bullet proof glass - that I found really weird at first! Afrikaans did not help me that much - but try and do courses to get some German behind you as soon as possible. It is just a really different way of living - very free compared to South Africa although when my mom visited she said it was very much the way South Africa USED to be like.
I'm Australian, not South African, but here are some of the things that have given me culture shock since I moved here four months ago. At the outset, though, let me say that I love Germany and have found the people here (contrary to popular mythology) warm, friendly and anxious to help, though that could be because I live in the rural south, not in a big northern city.
First of all, you probably won't face many of these issues if you're being properly relocated. I accepted money to relocate, where I should have insisted on a relocation service, because of the following:
- I bought the wrong phone, because there are different sockets in the wall and, being in an old house, I got one with an analogue outlet. Of course, I went off and bought a modern phone which I then had to exchange. You have to know what your particular fittings are.
- speaking of fittings, here's a shock to the system: flats are generally rented without fixtures and fittings. No kitchen, no light fittings. I still haven't worked out how to install lights in my place, because the dangly wires scare me.
- ditto bed problems! Nobody told me that when you buy a bed you're basically buying the frame only, and you have to buy the slats that hold the mattress in place separately. I was so excited the day the bed was delivered... until I realised I would be sleeping on an air mattress on the floor for a while yet.
- for these and other reasons, get a fully furnished place to live, if at all possible.
- there is NO culture of customer service whatsoever, at any level. If you get help it's because the individuals themselves are great people, not because they are obliged to help. This week IKEA delivered said bed plus other furniture. This is more than two weeks after I bought the stuff. Despite all my please ("I'm sleeping on the floor! I'll pay you more for faster delivery!") they would not deliver earlier. I had to fit with their system, not the other way round. When they finally turned up, they brought the wrong stuff. Here's the kicker - the customer service centre called and wanted ME to travel the two hours back to them to bring my receipts in, so they could be certain of exactly what I had bought and what the delivery instructions were. They finally agreed to deliver the right furniture... in another two weeks.
- it took four weeks for the bank to send me the card for the ATM
- the Germans LOVE contracts. It is very hard to find providers who are willing to provide a service without a two year contract and shopping around is very difficult with limited German. I even had to sign a contract to be able to use online banking.
- financial services aren't as sophisticated as in an Anglophone country, whether it's an internet banking service that doesn't show an up-to-the-minute balance or a major store that won't accept a credit card. Security-loving Germany is still a cash-driven economy.
- women's clothing is generally very frumpy, unless you're talking very expensive designer clothing.
Having said all that, if you know what you're getting into and are prepared, this is a wonderful country. The infrastructure is excellent, the country is beautiful and the people are very genuine. I'd heard a lot about Germans being reserved until you get to know them, and then turning into the best friends ever, and it's true. In the whole time I've been here, I've only once found someone unpleasant about my limited German. Mostly they are far more willing to tolerate broken German than we are to tolerate bad English
And the other thing is that being a cheapskate (sorry, being thrifty) is a national virtue. Even the most sour Deutsch Bahn employee will light up like a Christmas tree if they can find a cheaper way for you to travel. Saving money gives them a warm inner glow, which can be enormously helpful.
So plunge in and do it.
Milton
First of all, you probably won't face many of these issues if you're being properly relocated. I accepted money to relocate, where I should have insisted on a relocation service, because of the following:
- I bought the wrong phone, because there are different sockets in the wall and, being in an old house, I got one with an analogue outlet. Of course, I went off and bought a modern phone which I then had to exchange. You have to know what your particular fittings are.
- speaking of fittings, here's a shock to the system: flats are generally rented without fixtures and fittings. No kitchen, no light fittings. I still haven't worked out how to install lights in my place, because the dangly wires scare me.
- ditto bed problems! Nobody told me that when you buy a bed you're basically buying the frame only, and you have to buy the slats that hold the mattress in place separately. I was so excited the day the bed was delivered... until I realised I would be sleeping on an air mattress on the floor for a while yet.
- for these and other reasons, get a fully furnished place to live, if at all possible.
- there is NO culture of customer service whatsoever, at any level. If you get help it's because the individuals themselves are great people, not because they are obliged to help. This week IKEA delivered said bed plus other furniture. This is more than two weeks after I bought the stuff. Despite all my please ("I'm sleeping on the floor! I'll pay you more for faster delivery!") they would not deliver earlier. I had to fit with their system, not the other way round. When they finally turned up, they brought the wrong stuff. Here's the kicker - the customer service centre called and wanted ME to travel the two hours back to them to bring my receipts in, so they could be certain of exactly what I had bought and what the delivery instructions were. They finally agreed to deliver the right furniture... in another two weeks.
- it took four weeks for the bank to send me the card for the ATM
- the Germans LOVE contracts. It is very hard to find providers who are willing to provide a service without a two year contract and shopping around is very difficult with limited German. I even had to sign a contract to be able to use online banking.
- financial services aren't as sophisticated as in an Anglophone country, whether it's an internet banking service that doesn't show an up-to-the-minute balance or a major store that won't accept a credit card. Security-loving Germany is still a cash-driven economy.
- women's clothing is generally very frumpy, unless you're talking very expensive designer clothing.
Having said all that, if you know what you're getting into and are prepared, this is a wonderful country. The infrastructure is excellent, the country is beautiful and the people are very genuine. I'd heard a lot about Germans being reserved until you get to know them, and then turning into the best friends ever, and it's true. In the whole time I've been here, I've only once found someone unpleasant about my limited German. Mostly they are far more willing to tolerate broken German than we are to tolerate bad English
And the other thing is that being a cheapskate (sorry, being thrifty) is a national virtue. Even the most sour Deutsch Bahn employee will light up like a Christmas tree if they can find a cheaper way for you to travel. Saving money gives them a warm inner glow, which can be enormously helpful.
So plunge in and do it.
Milton
A3aan - Milo is very easy to find, most Asian food stores sell it! Not sure why, but they do.
You can get self-raising flour in most Asian supermarkets, but I decided after a short while that it is just as easy to add the baking powder to the plain flour yourself.
Hallo Jos! Thanks for the info on the Milo. I will certainly check it out.
Is this the Milo you're talking about? http://www.nestleghana.com/Milo/ sounds like Ovaltine / Ovomaltine to me.
Jip, that is the milo we are talking about, and no it does not taste liek Ovoltine. It tastes much better!
Hi~ I moved to Dresden from the US last July. I disagree with everything Milton said, so I guess it depends on where you live. I bought furniture from IKEA, and they delivered it the Tuesday after I ordered it. ( on Saturday) The man there told me that if I ordered online it would come weeks later because it comes from the warehouse and not the Dresden store. I also ordered a washing machine at Saturn and had wonderful service, delivery and help from Customer Service. My only complaint is that the directions don't come in English, so I had to figure out how to use it through trial and error. I have read a lot of things on this forum ( TT) that I have found NOT to be true. I have yet to be subjected to the German stare that everyone talks about. No one has been rude to me because I bought too many groceries, or didn't use the divider to separate my things from theirs. The German people have been charming and polite to me. I'm sure they'd LOVE to laugh in my face when I butcher their language, but I have been given nothing but encouragement to keep trying. They DO love their rules, but if you break one- (like crossing the street w/o the green man) you just smile and say, "Enschuldigung" and everything is fine. There aren't very many people in Dresden who speak English. The older people learned Russian and German when they were in school. Many of the younger ones do speak english, so I tend to look for younger people when I need help in the shops. I have only been here a short time, but I am in love with the country already. I think attitude has more to do with it than anything else. If you think of it as being an adventure, you will robasbly enjoy it tremendously. BTW..I am American, and I have to say, I feel safer here than in any city in the US I have ever visited!
Hi there
Moved to Germany a year ago from JHB - although I miss my family and friends I am really happy we made the move and would not want to go back...
Moved to Germany a year ago from JHB - although I miss my family and friends I am really happy we made the move and would not want to go back...
Hi TT
Thank you so much for your responses and PM's. I received very different points of view through the PMs and this just confirmed that it will not be a walk in the park, but it will definitely be worth it.
Hubby now had his final interview and they confirmed that he will receive his offer of employment within the next week. They also stated that they want him to come over as soon as possible and that once his workvisa is approved, he must resign from his current job and start working in Germany a month later.
We've read that workvisas takes about 3 months to approve, meaning we have 4 months (including our 1 month notice period) to sell our house and our cars before moving over. But the lady in the office there said she will try to get the visas approved before Christmas. That is 6 weeks from now! Which means we have to move over end of January. Now I'm in a panick.
I just want to find out from fellow TT's : is 6 weeks a reasonable time for approving a workvisa? Or am I again stressing about something that is not very likely?
I'm not ready for things to happen this quick. My mom hasn't stopped crying since we told her the news and I'm seriously considering staying on in South Africa with the kids for a few more months to get things sorted out.
I hope everyone has a very relaxing Sunday.
Best regards
ems
Thank you so much for your responses and PM's. I received very different points of view through the PMs and this just confirmed that it will not be a walk in the park, but it will definitely be worth it.
Hubby now had his final interview and they confirmed that he will receive his offer of employment within the next week. They also stated that they want him to come over as soon as possible and that once his workvisa is approved, he must resign from his current job and start working in Germany a month later.
We've read that workvisas takes about 3 months to approve, meaning we have 4 months (including our 1 month notice period) to sell our house and our cars before moving over. But the lady in the office there said she will try to get the visas approved before Christmas. That is 6 weeks from now! Which means we have to move over end of January. Now I'm in a panick.
I just want to find out from fellow TT's : is 6 weeks a reasonable time for approving a workvisa? Or am I again stressing about something that is not very likely?
I'm not ready for things to happen this quick. My mom hasn't stopped crying since we told her the news and I'm seriously considering staying on in South Africa with the kids for a few more months to get things sorted out.
I hope everyone has a very relaxing Sunday.
Best regards
ems
Hallo Emmarentia
I have received my visa within 6 weeks after applying at the embassy in Pretoria, and that was even during the worldcup in 2006!
As long as you have all the required documents, the application will go very smooth. The hardest part is to obtain all the copies of birth cirtificates and marriage certificates with all the apostiles attached to them. That and to obtain passports for my kids took the most time.
We arrived in November in Germany and it was very bad. We just came out of a winter in South Africa and walked right into winter in Germany. We could not wait for the summer to arrive in Europe.
I guess your 5 year old need to start school next year so the sooner you get him/her used to German the better. You would have missed the "automatic" school registration so you have to go yourself to the school to register him/her at the school.
I have received my visa within 6 weeks after applying at the embassy in Pretoria, and that was even during the worldcup in 2006!
As long as you have all the required documents, the application will go very smooth. The hardest part is to obtain all the copies of birth cirtificates and marriage certificates with all the apostiles attached to them. That and to obtain passports for my kids took the most time.
We arrived in November in Germany and it was very bad. We just came out of a winter in South Africa and walked right into winter in Germany. We could not wait for the summer to arrive in Europe.
I guess your 5 year old need to start school next year so the sooner you get him/her used to German the better. You would have missed the "automatic" school registration so you have to go yourself to the school to register him/her at the school.
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