Does this activity require a German work permit?

Hi, everyone! Please help me, as it is confusing. If I come to Germany as a tourist, spend a few weeks taking pictures with my digital camera, then return to my home country and make a website about my trip to Germany with lots of pics, then put Google ads on that site and make money off those ads, would such activity require me to obtain a work permit from the German authorities?

Common sense says no, because I would not be taking anyone's job in Germany. But this is what makes me wonder:

§ 12 Definition of gainful employment

(1) Gainful employment is deemed under this regulation to be constituted by independent and dependent activity which is aimed at generating a profit or which is agreed upon or is commonly in return for remuneration or which is required for a work permit or any other permit to practice a profession.

http://intl.fh-pforzheim.de/int_stud/index...;main_site=visa

Thus, if I take pics in Germany with intent to make money by making an advertisement-filled site with those pics of Germany, that would appear to constitute "an independent activity which is aimed at generating a profit."

Your thoughts, please!

I think there's no need to worry too much about this...

No
No, as you are not making Money IN Germany. Only when you get back home and setup your website.
Keep it simple, if asked your here as a tourist to see the city/sites..

Darkknight, technically what I am thinking about does constitute "an independent activity which is aimed at generating a profit." And your suggestion that I tell the officials that I am in Germany just to see the sites does not sound very reassuring

Tom, I am not worried that the tax polizei would go abroad and storm my residence demanding that I produce a work permit for all the pictures of Germany I've taken and put on a for-profit website

But I would like to know what the law says, because life has its ways of getting even with cheaters.

if you are from the EU, then you will not need a work permit, I cant see anyone getting upset even if you are not EU

It would help us if you told us what your "home country" actually is. However, as DK says, any money that you do earn will be earned in whichever country your website is hosted in, and not in Germany.

I'm not sure how much money you expect to earn from these Google adverts, but I wouldn't base your retirement plans on it. If you get a few cents a day you'll be doing well.

You are definitely worrying about this far too much.

Thank you all for replies! I am not from an EU country. And it's not really a matter of upsetting someone, or even depriving some poor German of work. It's a matter of playing by the rules established by the German authorities.

I am not sure if it matters what country the website is hosted in. It's not the website working and making the money, it's the content put on that website. And the question which still remains is whether obtaining the content for a website requires a work permit, if the person obtaining the content is not an EU resident.

Well if you really think that you're going to make your millions from this scheme (good luck; the photos you'll be taking have all been published online a million times before) then you should contact the German embassy in whichever country it is that you won't tell us you live in. They will be able to advise you.

Nah, won't make millions off Google ads And I can for sure call the German embassy, but maybe someone here knows the answer, and a busy embassy official would not have to be bothered

I think small town boy is saying that if you aren't going to give all the necessary details for someone to help you, then you should just contact the embassy.

As far as I could guess you needn't worry over a few bucks a year...

Since you are in need of a legal opinion on the meaning of a German legal statute, why not do some sort of initial consultation with a German lawyer?

For the umpteenth time.. NO, A work permit is not required for taking pictures.
You will be treated as a tourist upon entry (Even if you say your here for business)

You have your answers... However if you still choose to ask, then contact the nearest German Embassey and obtain (try) a full Workpermit and Entry visa before you come.
Good Luck

Since you are in need of a legal opinion on the meaning of a German legal statute, why not do some sort of initial consultation with a German lawyer?

------- I know Germans are very rules-oriented. Perhaps, they have this statute somewhere on the Net which says: "if you are a foreigner and come to Germany as a tourist, you may take pictures for your for-profit site, and you don't need a work permit for that."

You will be treated as a tourist upon entry (Even if you say your ere for business)

-------- That's very interesting. What exactly does it mean? I would tell the officer at the airport: "I am here for business but have no work permit," and the officer would smile and let me through? What's the point of requiring a work permit, then? And, specifically, what is the meaning of "Gainful employment is deemed under this regulation to be constituted by independent and dependent activity which is aimed at generating a profit"?

I've read a few travel books in my life. Real people visiting a bunch of countries and then publishing a book on their travels. Whilst I'm not 100% certain, I would doubt that they got work visas to every single country they trekked through because they were going to write a book and publish a few photos of those countries...

Hazza, this indeed is a very gray area, which is why I am seeking advice from the foreigners living in Germany.

But you are right, it's highly doubtful that the authors of the books about their travels in other countries had a work permit to look around with the purpose of later going back home to write a book and make money selling it. They probably had a tourist visa at most. But what is done and what is legal can be two different things, and that is why I would like to know what is legal.

Are you sure you're not German?

Seriously, I wouldn't worry about it. What if you go on holidays and take a bunch of photos and then a few years later decide to use them for business purposes? Are you going to get in touch with embassies and explain that? Seriously, just go and take photos and tell them you're a tourist. Why go the hassle if you don't have to? And your conscience can be clear because it's not even that you'd be dodging tax or anything - all you'd be doing is avoiding red-tape and beaurocracy.

you take photos here but you are earning money in your own jurisdiction so there is no connection with germany. what if a a writer comes to gemany (or anywhere) and gathers information for a book or publication, then goes back home an writes it? They aren't working in germany but only gathering material here, same as you. You would also pay tax on your earnings in your own jurisdiction - try and tell your tax office that you should pay tax in germany and they will call an ambulance for you. Also, despite the vast amount said and written (on this website as well) about how allegedly bureaucratic and rule-obsessed germans are, 90% of it is bullshit, apparently produced by people with no experience.

All questions have been answered. It is now up to the OP to figure things out for themselves.
If they want more detailed info, let'em contact the local German Embassey.

Well, I asked a German consular official, and he did not know! He said that he thought such activity would not require a work permit, but that I should call and ask a special work permit specialist in their office. And my call went straight to the answering machine

Been there, done that. No, you do not need a permit. However, if you are on assignment for a journal or plan to use journalist credential to get vantage points then, yes, you will need to contact a covering agency.

Depending on what you photograph, you might need special permission - please no piccy of mil sites, no pictures over walls or using telephotos for private but known persons. Museums have their own regulations which must be respected.

Have fun.

Zemonkey, all I have in mind is running my own site, nothing like "being a journalist," writing articles for magazines, etc. I seriously doubt a permit is needed for taking pics for your own for-profit site, because usually the entire idea of requiring a work permit is so that a foreigner does not take a job which would otherwise would go to a citizen of that country. But the rules can be surprising. However, you seem to be very positive that there is no need for a work permit. Have you checked with some official?

Ok, I checked with an official from another EU country, and he said such activity does not require a work permit, as long as you do not establish residence in the country. So, if you just take pics and leave without establishing residence, it's fine. If you establish residence and take exactly the same pics and put them on exactly the same site, then it appears you would need a work permit. The official agreed that it's a gray area. He compared it to a situation when a travel agent from a non-EU country comes to an EU country, take pics, then goes back to his country and uses those pics to entice people to buy tours from him. Technically, the travel agent was taking pics with intent to make money by using the pics to sell tours. But such activity does not require a work permit.

Thank you all, it's been a very interesting discussion for sure!

So theres your answer.. Basically the same thing people have been posting for the last 2 pages...

And the answer to your next question, of if getting a Hotel room counts as "establishing residence", it does not...