Assasination attempt on Benazir Bhutto

Just flicked on the news and saw that there was an attempted assasination on the returning ex PM of Pakistan Bhutto just a few hours after her return. Pretty graphic shots on TV, all captured live.

BBC link This link claims 20 dead, CNN are stating 45

CNN is now saying 85. Yikes!

just updated to 93. So sad.

Now 94 and a half. Eek!

how can someone be half dead?

I like to look on the bright side and say they are half alive, especially at a time like this.

Half Dead

Pakistan's military trying to make sure that they increase their electoral chances?

Now so many people killed/injured because Bhutto returned to Pakistan. She should have expected this. She shouldn't have returned. Why come back after imposing her own exile? Not only she will risk her own life now, she will kill many others with her action. I blame her.

So if somebody threatens to kill people you should avoid politics. That's the death of democracy. Something Pakistan is not exactly at the leading edge of anyway.

The number is over 100 now apparently. So sad! But I would not blame Bhutto for this, but the people who did this. Why was she in exile, by the way? I have to admit I was not familiar with her.

Will death give you democracy? And you're right that Pakistan does not lead in this area as seen worldwide right now.

As I watched the news earlier today about her arrival in Karachi I could have predicted this would happen.

Mariposa as I remember she used to be the elected leader of Pak until a military coup by General Mosharraf kicked her out. She was accused of lots of things like corruption (that is endemic in that part of the world).

Been following it a little bit recently. As I understand it she is the one hope for centre ground politics in the country. Mosh has lost a lot of inflence recently with incidents like that mosque conflict. So her arrival is important to Pakistan. After all did she press the button on the belt to cause the explosion?

Hey Jeremy, I don't think you can fairly say that corruption is endemic to that part of the world. I think it would be more fair to say that is endemic of politicians.

I am not sure I agree. What we view as corruption in that part of the world is simply a different cultural practice.

For example the extended family is all impoortant out there. If some money comes in then it gets shared out with everyone. That's old Asian custom and nothing wrong with it. translate that to a deal involving a few tanls and the difference starts to show up.

There's a weird jhonesty out there we don't understand. As an example I used to get my exit reentry visas in saudi from a Pakistani man who was very friendly. (you had to gain a visa to get your passport back which you surrendered on arrival in the Kingdom.) I would give him the necessary fee which he would then put in his pocket. Now that money was totally honestly kept on my bahelf. Were that to happen in the West it would look awful.

So you will appreciate the blurred lines between their way of doing business and ours. The gulf between leads to millions of misundertandings.

Ask Cory Aquino. It was the murder of her husband which led to Ferdinand Marcos' downfall and the Philippines got out from his totalitarian boot.

woof.

Musharaff kicked out Nawaz Sheriff. He is currently in exile in Saudi Arabia. Fearing the rise of extremism, it seems Musharaff has made a deal with Mrs. Bhutto to bring back democracy in Pakistan.

Will a religion that makes women a second-class citizen allow a woman to lead Pakistan again? I think we have our answer. This religion fears women.

I fear women , what the fuck does that mean? Any heterosexual men out there who don't fear women? I didn't think so...

TM, Bhutto has been elected Prime Minister twice , so we already have our answer on that.

They scare the bejeezus out of me.

Bhutto has twice already been Prime Minister in Pakistan. Back then they were an Islamic state as well.

Are you Jewish? cos clearly you're not an idiot.

I fear women is a reference towards those in society whose fear drives them to create a society in which women are treated both legally and thru custom as second-class citizens, not enjoying the same liberties as men. For example, women cannot be in public with male escorts, women cannot drive, women cannot vote, etc.


Yes, but with the rise of Al-Qaeda and Islamic extremism the political landscape has changed considerably in Pakistan since she was last elected (1993)

Amen () to that!

Pakistan was just as socially conservative back then. She still has a significant base of support. With Sharif still exiled, she can win if there are not a bunch of other "moderate" candidates to take votes from her party.

I agree. My reference to the changed political landscape was in reference to whether the Islamic fundamentalists of today would let her as opposed to the early 1990's.

Maybe they will if they feel it will give them more advantages than the current political landscape of Pakistan? But, allowing a female to be PM of a state in which Islamic Fundamentalists want to turn into a Sharia run state is problematic and goes against their stated objectives.

TM, my impression is that Bhutto is not socially liberal by Pakistani standards- you have no doubt noticed that she always has her head covered in public. It is the ISI and the Pakistani military who are more likely to be a problem for any civilian politician; however, she would not have been allowed back if they were going to be a problem for her (she made some sort of a deal with Musharraf). After all, she was allowed back, whereas Sharif was put right back on a plane to KSA when he tried to come back a few months ago.
The extremists cannot topple a Pakistani government that has military and ISI support.

Very weird. I'm Asian and never heard about this.
Money gets shared a bit more readily than in the west, true, but its because families are closer...this is changing however. 20 Years ago I would have been , as the eldest son, to help out my siblings no matter what.
Thats not the case anymore. Even with regards to parents which is sad.

Corruption is still defined as corruption, but the problem is that it is so inbred in society now it is hard to stamp out. People expect less and so are delivered less.

The main issue is that Pakistan is still a feudal state.
If no-one here understands this issue then you don't understand the politics at all.

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Element: I only know Arabia and how it works. For example they have what is known as "Wasta" which means influence. It is now what you know but who you know. Friends always "help" each other out. In the west that is called Nepotism but in Asia I believe your family or tribe comes first whatever.

Many of these societies may have mobile phones and satellite TV but they are still feudal indeed.

I'm starting to like the way these two think

Africa too...but the problem with Pakistan is the acceptance of corruption as a normal issue.
People actually do not like it but theres no way for them to change it, the corruption is too in-grained.

As for putting the family first, its not always precise:

One of the reasons Pakistan was created was because during the independence drive,
the feudal landowners were going to get their lands taken away due to India's redistribution scheme (which took land away from landowners and distributed them according to the influx of newcomers).
Muhhamed Ali Jinnah was a supporter of feudal rights and thus won their support and eventually independence.
This man actually intended the country to be a secular fiefdom (read his speeches). (The feudal lord retained the rights to their land)

The man and the legend are different though and in Pakistan now he is regarded as a Muslim independence leader
(even though he was not practicing or advocating it : reason being is that the fief lords want their subjects to not rise up against them)
This is the "moderate" voice of secular Pakistan they keep talking about

One of the powers in recent times of the feudal lords can actually be seen in the from of Zulfikar Ali Bhutto (yes...her father) who was supported up until he wanted to socialise the country and redistribute the land.
Forthwithe he lost his support, a coup was mounted against him, he was tortured and executed.

The big issue is that the feudal lord ORDER their subjects to vote for the party they choose. Therefore they hold a lot of sway over politics in Pakistan.
The only entity powerful enough to oppose them would be the military but this is also populated by these kind of politicos.

I could go on...

Main point: Its not a "cultural gap" ok?! I'm Asian and I know my history and culture.

Just because its accepted as part of everyday don't think its not frowned upon.
Corruption is still regarded as corruption in Asia. Theres just less people think they can do about...

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Thanks Element. I am more familiar with India at independence than Pak. I visited there (India) several times in the 90s on trips.

A lot think the extremist problem started in Sept 11th 2001 but as I am aware it goes way further back in history. It seems as though this woman is one of the main hopes for freedom in that part of the world. If they can bring Afghanistan under control as well then perhaps this element will abate somewhat.

What makes me sceptical is that the Brits tried to bring these lands under control in the 18th Century during the Great Game but failed as the warriors were too strong. Is the situation any different today Element?

You're right. The problem started quite a bit before 2001.

It became institutionalised after Z.Bhutto was overthrown by the then dictator Zia-ul-Haq who changed laws (such as one requiring your religion on your passport) to service the Islamic parties.
Them and the military was his main support but under his rule, Islamic parties were finally accepted.

Pakistan has never actually been able to control the NWFP. I don't think they ever will.
The people and the terrain are just uncontrollable and Pakistan withdrew from the area only to return after 2001.
The problem has been that Pakistan has been maintaining terrorist camps for a while, first for the war against the Soviets and then against India in Kashmir.

This has now backfired and along with the reforms that General Zia had put in, allow for a strong religious based movement, especially from the Mohajirs (like Mushariff) who are usually abused by the Sindhi elite (Bhutto) who use the religious avenue to gain political ground.

EDIT: I am so glad that partition happened...in hindsight...I would not want to be bordering Afghanistan by any means.

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