stevo74
Oct 17 2007, 2:20 pm
Just doing a spot of language editing and came across the word "incentivate", which I'm definitely not happy with. So I looked it up and it turns out that "incentivize" would be better. Now call me old-fashioned but what's wrong with plain and simple "to offer incentives". Would any of you fellow English speakers out there actually use the term incentivate or incentivize?
Grrrr - I'm off to caffeinate myself!!!
MoiLV
Oct 17 2007, 2:22 pm
no, I don't think that's a word.. maybe incite?
frizzyjen
Oct 17 2007, 2:22 pm
I don't like the sound of either word to be honest..
Do they actually exist in the dictionary???
Jeeves
Oct 17 2007, 2:23 pm
No I wouldn't dream of using it. On the other hand, it is immediately obvious what it means, and isn't that what language is all about?
As for whether you should edit it or not, it depends on the target audience.
nick60599
Oct 17 2007, 2:25 pm
I would not say either of them. Sounds like management bullshit language.
stevo74
Oct 17 2007, 2:25 pm
It's not in my Collin's English dictionary but it's in lots of online dictionaries including Merriam-Webster.
alika
Oct 17 2007, 2:27 pm
No way would I use either of them. I actually had a giggle when I saw the title of the post.
wahoo
Oct 17 2007, 2:29 pm
How about "Motivating Employees". If incentivating is really word, it is certainly not one that is used in everyday conversation by native speakers.
stevo74
Oct 17 2007, 2:40 pm
OK, thanks guys! I've scrapped it. I knew that was a good ask the audience question
RubyTuesday
Oct 17 2007, 2:44 pm
but wait ... "incentivize" is used in the health and wellness circles in the US and sometimes HR too. It's different then motivate, isn't it? More about specific incentives - be it monetary or days off etc.
I'm no expert but thought this little word should get a second chance as I have seen it before, honest.
wahoo
Oct 17 2007, 2:52 pm
Hadn't thought of it being insider lingo in HR...good point. Still a fake-sounding word imho...more of a slang or word adaptation...can't imagine ever hearing it a presentation or the like.
Jimbo
Oct 17 2007, 2:55 pm
I'd use it for sure - it's one of those shitty HR buzzwords, but it's in common usage in London fo' shure.
wahoo
Oct 17 2007, 2:59 pm
So, there you have it. Swap the "z" for an "s" and you have a word that Brits who hail from North London might use.
Jimbo
Oct 17 2007, 3:00 pm
What's a poff?
Conquistador
Oct 17 2007, 3:00 pm
I have seen incentivize in the context of economics (actually used it myself in an academic environment) but, yeah, it is kind of clumsy.
Hazza
Oct 17 2007, 3:11 pm
You can incentivize when people do more than just the needful...
stevo74
Oct 17 2007, 3:13 pm
The word is certainly used - over 500,000 hits in Google! It's just one of those words that makes me wince when I see it. Same as alphabetize, which I personally would never use but I wouldn't change it if I was editing someone else's work. Anyway, the word actually used in the text I'm editing was "incentivate", which I am definitely changing!
frizzyjen
Oct 17 2007, 3:14 pm
I can only find it in American-English dictionaries which is maybe most of us Brits on here haven't heard of it...
RubyTuesday
Oct 17 2007, 3:16 pm
steveo - what are you changing it to?
stevo74
Oct 17 2007, 3:17 pm
QUOTE (Hazza @ Oct 17 2007, 4:11 pm)

You can incentivize when people do more than just the needful...
But isn't that the same as "you can provide incentives when people do more than the needful..."?
That just sounds so much better to me.
stevo74
Oct 17 2007, 3:22 pm
I've changed it from "employees are incentivated for xxx" to "employees are offered incentives for xxx".
Dostoyevsky
Oct 17 2007, 4:02 pm
employees are incentivized for actioning xxx
Hazza
Oct 17 2007, 4:16 pm
QUOTE (stevo74 @ Oct 17 2007, 4:17 pm)

But isn't that the same as "you can provide incentives when people do more than the needful..."?
That just sounds so much better to me.
Except that "Needful" isn't really a word either...
GreenTea
Oct 17 2007, 4:33 pm
If I saw that word in a document, it might incentivize me to rip up the document. Guess that makes it a self-validating word then?
stevo74
Oct 17 2007, 4:49 pm
QUOTE (Hazza @ Oct 17 2007, 5:16 pm)

Except that "Needful" isn't really a word either...
Didn't want to say...you were only trying to help
Topsy
Oct 17 2007, 4:52 pm
Incentivize is a perfectly normal word. I'm quite amazed that people seem to think it's not.
Personally I hear it all the time (at work).
Yes, it's a real word (unfortunately, as far as I'm concerned), much loved in management and HR circles. If the target audience of your text belongs to the corporate world you might as well use "incentivize" instead of trying to translate business jargon into ordinary English (I wouldn't leave "incentivate" in the text, though).
Here is the link to a 2003 NYT article on business speak:
Initiating mission-critical business jargon reduction. And yes, the "i" word is in it.
It's from the archives so probably not subscription only, but I'll quote a couple of excerpts just in case:
QUOTE
Over the past 20 years, business has replaced the bureaucracy in the public mind as the chief perpetrator of doublespeak. On the Web, references to corporate or business jargon outnumber references to bureaucratic or government jargon by 3 to 1. It's a remarkable shift in attitudes, particularly since government hasn't exactly been sleeping on the job. (...)
I recall a line from a memo I received on the day I started work at a corporate research lab: "Cascade this to your people and see what the push-back is." If that sentence were a person, it would walk like George W. Bush. (...)
A promotional brochure from a large British law firm that offers its clients "tax compliance advice which is effective, clear and jargon-free" continues: "Our approach is proactive. We also believe that tax rules can play a positive role in incentivizing investors."
Fribble
Oct 17 2007, 8:16 pm
Incentivize is most definitely a legit business English word in the US, mostly in HR circles.
sharpe
Oct 17 2007, 8:18 pm
compensated maybe instead
Topsy
Oct 17 2007, 8:55 pm
Not sure they mean the same, though, Sharpe. I personally wouldn't use them in the same way.
Compensate to me in this context is a synonym for reward, i.e. after the fact.
Whereas incentivise implies that you offer something concrete to your employees beforehand (which may be payment, but could also be additional vacation days, a promotion, a holiday in the Caribbean, a meal for two in a snooty restaurant etc etc) in order to encourage the behaviour you're looking for. A better alternative than compensate might be "motivate" but then you'd be missing the idea of the concrete tit-for-tat at the end of it. "Motivate" is more intangible than "incentivise".
QUOTE (Kay @ Oct 17 2007, 7:21 pm)

Yes, it's a real word (unfortunately, as far as I'm concerned)
I don't understand why you're opposed to language evolving. Why is it "unfortunate" that people create new words to convey new ideas?
Maybe I'm being a bit harsh, but I imagine you back in the early 1600's watching a Shakespeare play and commenting that the plot was not bad but why did he have to throw in all these "unfortunate" new words?
plastic
Oct 17 2007, 9:13 pm
QUOTE (stevo74 @ Oct 17 2007, 3:22 pm)

I've changed it from "employees are incentivated for xxx" to "employees are offered incentives for xxx".
Good! In an age when bullying and harrassment are become only too common in the workplace, and human beings are more and more seen as a resource to be exploited, the change you made suggests that employees are not just units which may have something done to them "incentivation" but are actually individuals to whom an offer is made which they can either accept or not.
QUOTE (Topsy @ Oct 17 2007, 9:55 pm)

Why is it "unfortunate" that people create new words to convey new ideas?
You put your finger on it right there - it's not conveying a new idea, that's why. What's wrong with offering or proposing incentives?
stanford
Oct 17 2007, 9:33 pm
It is American English like with Alphabetize but no like alphabetize you can get away with it in som business circles in the UK i.e. those that are influenced heavily by US firms (investment banking etc.).
US - UK
Incentivise - to give incentive
Alphabetize - to put in alphabetical order
Fribble
Oct 17 2007, 10:03 pm
QUOTE (Topsy @ Oct 17 2007, 9:55 pm)

Maybe I'm being a bit harsh, but I imagine you back in the early 1600's watching a Shakespeare play and commenting that the plot was not bad but why did he have to throw in all these "unfortunate" new words?
Topsy, you're right about the meaning of incentivizing being very different from compensating. But I have to say that this particular new word always did give me the willies, because it was usually used in my corporate days when HR wanted to trick employees into doing more for less by making it all seem so "value-add" (another vomitous new business speak word). The word incentivize is usually a red flag for Giant Bait and Switch Coming Your Way. They round you up in the incentivizing pen like so much cattle, throwing non-descriptive yet active-sounding nouns around like verbs to confuse you and make you think you got a package worth bragging about, or that creating a new job description is actually a big move up for you. Ha!
GreenTea
Oct 17 2007, 10:05 pm
QUOTE (plastic @ Oct 17 2007, 10:13 pm)

Good! In an age when bullying and harrassment are become only too common in the workplace, and human beings are more and more seen as a resource to be exploited, the change you made suggests that employees are not just units which may have something done to them "incentivation" but are actually individuals to whom an offer is made which they can either accept or not.
I'm all for allowing languages to evolve and not trying to force them into a straight-jacket, but there's something I don't like about "incentivize", and I think Plastic has put his finger on it. The "-ize" suffix implies a kind of all-powerful control over the people or things being "-ized", which is probably not the meaning that users of the word want to convey.
Seen in that light, maybe it is an excellent word after all. It conveys the full hypocrisy of the people who are likely to be using it.
EDIT: Like Fribble just said.
Kay
Oct 18 2007, 11:23 am
@P, F, GT
Agree 100%. Sorry, that's not clear enough. I meant to say that our respective assessments of the underlying concept and its concrete expression and application in the corporate environment are fully convergent.
Jules Winnfield
Oct 18 2007, 11:24 am
In reference to OP:
Sounds like Germglish.
worm
Oct 18 2007, 11:44 am
words like that make me want to murderize people
HellesAngel
Oct 18 2007, 11:46 am
QUOTE (GreenTea @ Oct 17 2007, 11:05 pm)

I'm all for allowing languages to evolve...
Fair enough, but over the years I've suffered through innumerable presentations at work by people with funny accents talking utter bollocks, sprouting loads of words with no direct meaning. The content is entirely implied, as nicely illustrated in the TT
Bullshit Bingo thread. Everyone knows what each post means but why not just use the classic, traditional phrase instead? It's usually shorter, clearer, and more widely and precisely understood. Sadly the answer usually is held in the speaker's lack of intelligence - to make him/herself sound more intelligent bigger words, although entirely made up, are trotted out as they sound nice. As there are many people who are insecure in this way the 'made up words' way of speaking has now become accepted - The PowerPoint and bollockspeak generation of managers.
Jeremy Clarkson had a good one in one of his
newspaper columns which illustrates this crap is not just in the corporate world, from a stay in a hotel when the 'senior' waitress (probably with 'manager' in her title somewhere) asked 'Would you require any bread items for yourself at all sir?'. Is this really better than 'Sir, would you like some bread?'.
I'm not sure what the word for 'backwards evolution' would be but this is what this crap is.
Kay
Oct 18 2007, 11:47 am
QUOTE (worm @ Oct 18 2007, 12:44 pm)

words like that make me want to murderize people
Excellent!
worm
Oct 18 2007, 11:58 am
QUOTE (HellesAngel @ Oct 18 2007, 12:46 pm)

'Would you require any bread items for yourself at all sir?'. Is this really better than 'Sir, would you like some bread?'.
I'm not sure what the word for 'backwards evolution' would be but this is what this crap is.
Its like when your on a grotty national express coach going to swindon and the (northern voiced) driver comes on the tannoy all breathy and says 'passengers are reminded that we offer a selection of delicious hot and cold beverages'...Is there anywhere else in the world apart from on planes, trains and buses where drinks are referred to as 'beverages'???
crusoe
Oct 18 2007, 12:01 pm
Hotels, conferences, all manner of public gatherings. "A selection of beverages will be available." Supposed to add a posh touch to serving pints of watery lager and instant coffee to the masses.
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