German TV license for computers and mobile phones

According to this article at the Frankfurter Allgemeine, there is a government proposal to introduce a GEZ fee for computers from 1st January 2007. It will apply to all computers with an internet connection, even those that don't have the capability of receiving radio or television signals.

www.rundfunkgebuehrenzahler.de

Careful!

The EU is trying to introduce duty on pc monitors that can receive TV signals by up to 14% !

Those of you who pay GEZ anyway, was on the news the other day that it's set to rise again!

Fcuk mates. The GEZ just caught up wit me. I thought about sending fat tony down to bust some heads but then i remembered I don't have a fat tony...yet. What a bunch of wankers. This is nuttin but hairy bollocks. Will it be cell phones next...those can't receive radio and tv signals either can they? Whatever. Losers with small bits better not try and fee my crackberry.

This man, his name is Hans-Herwig Geyer, which means vulture in English, is the driving madman behind all this. Spokesperson for the German Musical Collection Society, (musical royalties) he wanted all computers to be more expensive, because you could steal music with it. Now they got the GEZ on it.

Did you know the GEZ actually can gain entry to your place to inspect your usage of undeclared TV and radio sets on a random basis?

Thread cross-references:

TV Licenses in Germany - To Pay or Not Toupé?

GEZ - German TV License Payments, how do I get rid of them?

Hmm, interesting, mobile phones can receive radio signals. I've got a radio in my 6610. I've also got a radio in a pen and occasionally during periods of high atmospheric pressure I've picked up Charivari on my fillings. Looks like I'm stuffed.

My understanding from previous discussions on this subject is that the GEZ spooks cannot gain entry to your apartment unless you expressly permit them. Maybe someone can locate some actual documentary facts on the subject to end any speculation.

Edit: or perhaps it's the in threads that Ed Bob popped up

No the GEZ can't gain entry to your place. Never have and never will.

Just ignore them. Do not talk to them. You have no TV, and you have no radio. Period.

If you say anything else then you deserve to pay.

If anyone is standing outside your flat as you come home and asks you who you are tell them you are the cleaner (putzfrau, esp. good if you are a bloke) and don't let them in. They're either Jehovah's Witnesses or the GEZ - they look the same but either way you're better off without them.

According to todays papers, this will be applied to all people with PC's in 2007??

Bastards!!

I've just seen the longest German word that I would ever use. Longer even than "Kreisverwaltungsreferat", which I thought was pretty long.

"Rundfunkgebührenabwicklungskonto" - the bank account for paying your TV license fee. 10 syllables! 33 letters!

I got my first letter from the GEZ yesterday. Said I need to reply to them registering what i have in the way of radio and tv by the end of the month.

So if i reply saying i dont have anything like this are they likely to check?

from letter:

"Der Rundfunkgebuehren-Aussendienst prueft nach und nach alle nicht angemeldeten Rundfunkgebuehren-Sachverhalte"

is the 2nd paragraph of post 4 on this thread a lot of BS?

indeed tis shite what they are going to do with the computers. some areas of this seem so grey though regarding radios... if someone just comes round do i throw the tiny walkman size radio over the balcony or something? i cant believe you actually need a license for likes of them.

Do NOT answer your door to strangers Schotte and Do NOT get into any conversation with strangers on your doorstep. It helps not to have a TV visible if you look through your open front door.

Schotte - Dont bother answering. I got two of the same letters last year, ignored both and never heard from them again.

I call shenanigans on that one. Sorry maggie.

Don't let them into your home.
http://www.datenschutz-berlin.de/recht/de/gg/gg1_de.htm I don't remember why I have this link, but here it is.
Complain here.

I breathe a sigh of relief as I am leaving before that deadline of Jan 2007.
Perhaps by then we will all have computer signals from satelites and they won't be able to trace you.

So far I'm controlling my rant about the perverted logic of charging GEZ fees on a computer 'because it's connected to the internet'. They may as well call it a 'tax on things with a screen on them'. Bastards.

Anyway, Schotte, as I've said before some entertainment can be had with those envelopes the GEZ send you for your reply. Fill them with the day's junk mail and send them off - you can get quite creative selecting appropriate material for them. As the bastards are too tight to send out postage paid envelopes it'll cost them even more.

PP

how did they catch up with you... fined?

We've been getting those letters for the 7 years we've lived here, even though we are already paying the tax! The other day we came home from work and some guy was standing at our door waiting for us. He was a radio-tax-man but all he wanted to know was whether or not we're married. Huh?? Yes, we are, so he was happy and left.

wow just a thought!

i had someone here the other week claiming to be doing some poll about tv and internet uses. could he have been trying to get in to see if i had a tv? i didnt let him in as he looked a bit dodgy and reeked of cigarettes. i told him to come back two days later when i would have the day off ... though was due to be in scotland anyway

think they would try to lie to gain access?

coincidence timing though it seems...

Someone told me a long time ago that you don't have to let them in your apartment. Is that true? I've heard stories of people who never paid, were somehow caught and had to pay a huge amount of back taxes. If you don' t have to let them in, how do you get caught?

Bingo!


Wouldn't have to get access. Just find out you are Mr Schotte, you live in Schottenstrasse and have a TV, a gentle "reminder" would have been there 2 days later.

omg!!!

when i said i was busy he asked if i had a phone he could contact, i said no! (though i do)

thats a bit decietful isnt it, saying he was doing a poll!?

dunno if he would have been able to see the tv though... and it was a full 2weeks later that i got the letter. plus i dont think i even confirmed my name, nor did he ask. shit i had a raging hangover when he came round and i cant remember exactly how the conversation went!

They have a list of residents which is publicly available anyway. He might have either guessed your name or just read it off the door?

If someone goes "Gruß Gott, I'm from GEZ" you're gonna say p*** off and close the door or not even take the chain off! If they go, "we're doing a survey, do you like telly" you might be taken in...

Another trick they have is to offer free subscriptions to TV lisitings guides...oh so you DO have a TV then!

sneaky bastards!!!

ive been standing at the door and its nip and tuck whether he could have seen it or not.

had forgot about my name being on the door... he did show me some ID but i should have inspected it more closely.

you seem to know a bit about it MT, you dont work for them?

just a thought.

hypothetically of course, if these clowns were to accuse me of having a tv and throw me a bill and i denied it, how could they go about any other route?

im not explaining it well, but if this amateur pretending to conduct a poll was in fact from GEZ and they took from it that i DID have a tv, surely this is by deceiving me as to his true intent? what i mean is, i could say "what makes you think i have a tv?" would they then reply with "we pretended to do a poll and lied to you and found out this way"

thats just not cricket.

any thoughts?

One tip for the Mafia group GEZ. If you end up having to pay, NEVER use the Lastschriftverfahren with them. Pay your bill everytime you get the invoice. Then YOU can decide from when you will no longer pay the bill. I got caught de-registering too late and despite me sending them proof, they will NOT pay me back my money. They are a dangerous, scrupleless group. Beware

They don't have to pay you it back, but your Bank do. The Bank is bound to return any Lastschrift deduction without argument or needing any reason, although there is a time limit to action this. It's up to the person who took the money (and pays it back) to persue you for their money. This can prove costly if they are found later to be in the right, however.

YL6

I just had a thought on this GEZ on computers law.

That would mean that if you need a computer for work/study, then you would be able to claim GEZ as a tax deduction, no?

So far it's pretty hard to demonstrate that you need a TV or radio for work, so no deduction.

That would mean that everyone paying GEZ now will actually be paying less than before and they're going to lose a considerable amount of money because those who don't pay now aren't going to pay then either...

Post #4 (and others asking),
No the GEZ have no automatic right of entry to your home.

There was a court case last year, or was it 2004, when the GEZ 'hounded' a family trying to gain entry. The parents were out but left their child indoors under instructions not to answer the door. The GEZ arrived and spent hours ringing the bell as they could see someone was in. This apparently terrified the child so the parents sued them AND WON the case!

Nice try - but - if you apply GEZ to commercial property then each individual item (TV, VCR, Radio, (Computer)) is chargeable by the GEZ rather than the flat-rate "OneTV/One radio" applied to domestic premises, so while you may get a taxable benefit, the overall total would be disproportionally higher...

I´ve heard that we are going to be taxed by the GEZ for using the Internet!! Does anybody know how much this is going to cost? Thanks in advance,
Terry

I have read about this somewhere as well not sure how much it is going to be though!

Typical, any way of making money!

Is this going to be extra to the normal GEZ or is it included in that?

I spent a while trying to find out about this yesterday evening but it all seems a bit confusing. As I understand it...

As things stand at the moment, it seems to be important to distinguish between a computer with internet connection and a computer with a TV/radio card:

Even now, a computer with TV/radio card should be registered and the fee paid where appropriate (see below though).

A computer with internet connection:
- until 31st Dec. 2006 -- no charge.
- from 1st Jan. 2007 -- should be registered and the fee paid where appropriate (see below).

However, in any one household only 1 TV and 1 radio actually have to be paid for. Any further radios (e.g. car radio) or TV's (and this presumably applies to the PC with TV/radio card and, as of 01.01.07, PC with internet connection) simply count as "supplementary devices" and are included in the 1 TV + 1 radio fee. (There are, however, more rules regarding other household members with an income above a certain level and additional TV's, radios, etc.)

So I think that whether the PC with internet connection will be "extra" or "included" will depend on whether you're already paying for TV + radio (which, let's face it, almost all of us should be doing anyway... ) or not. So as I interpret it, as of 01.01.07:

- if you're paying for 1 TV + 1 radio (currently €17.03 monthly), your PC with internet connection won't cost you extra
- if you're paying for 1 TV only (currently €17.03 monthly), you should also register your PC with internet connection, but it won't cost you extra
- if you're paying for 1 radio only (currently €5.52 monthly), you should also register your PC with internet connection, and you'll have to pay the top-up fee for TV + radio.

I might be wrong though, and the usual disclaimer applies to this post...

Phew!

I just read post 1 on this thread, is this still true? Are they still planning it? Unbelievable! (no, I didn't read the whole thread )

quoted from the GEZ website...

He didn't mention the computer being "commercial". If you are in the IT industry maybe you could claim costs like this back as part of your training and interview related costs which can be offset against tax.

That's only through the end of the year and doesn't discount them trying to charge starting in January. I'm ready to go to court to fight them.

woof.

Yup, you and every company in Germany that has computers. What about some of these really big place that have 5k+ computers, do you think they are going to like this plan? I don't think so.

I expect they plan to first go after single people to establish precedent and only after that go after the companies whose workers might try to watch some ZDF stream during their lunch breaks.

woof.

thanks... nvr finish reading before i quoted that...
so shitty, this country is going backwards as usual...

As far as I'm aware, we pay this fee to watch the state produced television. Why don't they just make the state produced television not available over the internet if they see this as such a problem. Then no one can illegally watch anything.

For the umpteenth time you pay this fee to license your ownership of reception equipment, just like a permit for a dog or tax for a car. Some of the proceeds support and develop the national television and radio infrastructure. What qualifies as reception equipment is a moot point, and while I certainly don't support it, I can understand their argument to extend that definition to include the internet as a medium of multimedia reception. How, or if it is enforcable is a other matter. No other country (to my knowlege) is considering this, despite the fact that most use a similar source of funding for state services.

A couple of ideas regarding the GEZ tax-on-computers issue:

Firstly, maybe an ISP could be persuaded to launch a service which blocks all sites run/paid for by the German public service broadcasters. Provided your computer doesn't have Wi-Fi etc. it's then impossible for you to recieve German broadcasts on it & so you shouldn't have to pay the tax.

Secondly, if you do pay the computer tax then thanks to Euro-law reciprocity or something maybe this means you should be able to access all online public service broadcast services from all EU countries. At present for example the BBC block their broadband content if you are outside the UK on the grounds that you're not paying their licence fee.
Maybe this has been thought of already?

It has NOTHING to do with whether you do or do not watch ARD etc television.
It is to do with the fact that the hardware is capable of doing so.

The BBC is fairly severe in how they do it but it is also the case that some German broadcasting is blocked overseas. It's mainly to do with liscensing of sports events.

For the umpteenth time the GEZ is not a fee to permit you to watch German TV (or to view German websites) it's a license to own the equipment to enable you to do so... What, or even if you watch (view) is irrelevant...

EDIT: Like MonksTown said...

this thread is like the magic round-a-bout. only without the pretty tunes vivid colours.

how many is an "umpteen"? and do you need a license to use it, or does it come free with purchase of a snotty attitude?

Its between eleventeen and twelveteen.

Humm, so going with the statements of the last few posts, If I had a gun, sword, mace, or any other deadly
type item, the police should come and arrest me, put me in jail all just because I have the "Equipment to do
harm/kill people"... (Most people have knives in the kitchen)

Charging people for having a TV, radio, or Computer because they might be able to watch Germany TV is a
crock o'shit... If I don't watch Germany TV or videos streams from the internet (ARD/ZDF/etc) While
should I pay them "Just because I might, or have the hardware"?

If it were true a license to own the equipment, then they would be asking to see it when you go and buy said
equipment, but they don't now do they..

GEZ is nothing more than a semi authorized company who’s sole purpose is to collect this "license" money
from people. They are NOT a govt. agency and have NO Govt. type powers. And they can't even do this
right. If you actually pay them, they still send threating letters telling you to pay.. So whats the point?

Yup. A kitchen knife could be used to build a criminal case.
It happens in practice too. There are plenty of cases of people getting nicked for (say) "bomb making equipment" that turns out to be a bottle of fertilizer for their plants and a bag of sugar in the kitchen.

No one is being charged to watch German TV. They are paying the license to have a television.
It's a system that also applies in other countries, not just Germany.