Alternatives to the War on Terror

Here

Personally, I think it is probably too late to reverse the staggering mess the US and the litter of lapdogs made...

A hell of a lot of work to reverse, yes...completely too late? I'd at least freaking try...

Dropping all that security at airports would be a start...then cut half the defense budget, pull out of the mid-east all together, spend that extra cash on education and health care...and hell, there'd still be enough to go around for massive aid projects around the world that would serve as PR...I could go on and on (I usually like to just let eurovol handle it)...anyways, moving to a foreign country and drinking beer whenever it comes up has helped.

That is if the country to which you move allows you to drink beer.

There was an interview with an extremist living in the UK and he was asked what it would take to bring the extremism to an end. His answer was "Simple, accept living under Sharia law and it will end tomorrow"

I guess that is the answer.

You have failed to address the issue of the post...

The post does not deny the existence of fucked up individuals such as the one you mentioned...

It talks about needing to adjust a fundamental lack of understanding in the root causes that affect these individuals...

Perhaps if we actually addressed the reasons these causes exist we wouldn't have an actual problem...

or at least less of an issue to address!

Alternatives:

War on Britney and Paris.

Pleb. The issue for the chap was simply. We do not have Sharia law in many countries. He and his cronies want Sharia law everywhere. How do you address that issue?

Once again not addressing the issue of the post...

These individuals do exist and have some fucked up reasoning, just like the other side who have fucked up reasoning but a lot of fuckin b52's and what not to go with it...

The issue is that perhaps another strategy is required, one that doesn't attempt to solve the problem of the burning boy by throwing petrol on him...

There is not a single shred of reasoning that can claim that by bombing a country and it's civilians the terrorist threat is being reduced.

There is however, a lot of logical reasoning that can argue these actions are adding to the problem.

Sure, the point is people like that are long gone... but that's ok, as long as more aren't being created. Currently they are, that is the problem.

Well you can't really have a logical discussion with a guy who is Muslim living in a Christian dominated country who expects Christians to follow his Sharia law. He needs to show respect for the non-Muslims in the first place, England is not his country. (technically he might have a British passport but he shows no alliance to Britain)

The only way to end conflict is to get everybody onto the same side working together. Now how the hell you do that in this situation is the big question. Bombing and shooting people will never work. That goes for both sides. There are no easy answers but a bit of education on both sides and a long time are likely to be the only way out.

And how does the Muslim living in muslim lands currently being 'occupied' feel?

Fine pleb. I addressed the issue. Lots of individuals want Sharia Law and are prepared to use any means necessary to enforce it. The people that are on the receiving end of it are basically being told accept it or we will continue. Given that a lot of people on this war wish to do away with all military and have a love in, there is but one alternative...accept Sharia and we will all be at peace.

There you have it. Issue...Sharia law. Alternative to resistance...accept Sharia law.

Right I am off to beat the wife followed by attending the weekly village "stoning"

"Understanding"??!?! Arse. Complete arse. Pure and simple arse.

Should one go out and molest children to "understand" kiddy fiddlers? No. Should one get addicted to Heroin and live in the gutter to understand the factors that drive you to theft and robbery? No.
Blowing up trains, airports, nightclubs etc is simple crime. Understanding? No. Punishment. Yes.

If I wanted to change the laws, so that Britain or wherever was under a different type of law, one that chopped off people's dicks for being gay for example - then decided that my plan would be to keep blowing shit up until people listened to me, and adopted my version of law, then what would happen? Would a bunch of touchy-feely liberals decide that the best course of action would be to listen* to me, and try to "understand"? No, I'd be locked up for being a criminal and bombing shit.

If muslims in whatver country want Sharia, then they should go out on the campaign trail, and try to get people to vote for it. It's called democracy. You can do that. Carry on. Not a hope in hell of getting into office in most countries, but have a go if you like, it is perfectly allowed. It will fail, but hey, give it a try anyway if you want, we need a replacement for the Moster Raving Loony party to spice up election day anyway.
The idea that the "war on terror" is creating some sort of environment that makes people into fanatical religious nutters hell bent on murdering people, and that we can fix that by "understanding", is an idea that is complete bollocks. Lets take it further.
Lets assume we have a really "understanding" society, that tries to understand the "issues" facing todays muslims in the western world. Now, lets assume I have a gang of loads of skinhead NF bovver boys, and we all feel peeved and marginalised, and not represented. So, we decide to blow shit up. Is anyone gonna suggest that the way to stop us would be "understanding" our root cause? No, they'd send in armed police.

Just because people do not agree with war being the answer, does not mean you have to do a 180 degree flip, and suggest the complete opposite. Sadly, alot of people cannot really see that.

*Or even better "actively-listen". Hilarious phrase.

If you are a Muslim, do share.

Once again, we are not speaking here about an individual, we are talking about addressing the strategies used at present in which the aim (supposedly) is to reduce this threat.

Logical reasoning in this instance is then definitely a requirement and no matter how many commentators or politicians with ulterior motives try to distort the issues, the argument holds strong that the current strategy does not function.

Apparantly I'm whats described as fundamental Athiest.

My point is you need to see the world from the other sides point of view if you want to solve the problem. A person or two in the UK is not the problem. It's winning the hearts and minds of the people in Iraq , Afganistan and the wider Muslim world.

there's religous fanatics on both sides, how about this nutcase?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1586978,00.html

let's sum things up here, if you talk to god that's praying to a higher power, when god answers back that's Schizophrenia and the troubled soul should be locked up in an institution immediately.

Problem is the people in the countries involved have a bad habit of voting them into office.

Or the source code of the E-Voting machines, nothing is really as it seems.

Look at the SNP's victory in Scotland, marginal when everyone expected a landslide. 5 Million inhabitants, 3.5 Million voters and 200,000 ballots were "misread" from the machines.

At least Ireland pulled the plug recently. Seems some countries can identify the flaws in this system. (Full story here on Linux.com)

It seems that you have taken my reply out of context, not completely understood what i am saying or I have not explained myself correctly.

When I say understanding the problems that create the groundswell of support that may be occuring at present for anti-US / Anti-western attacks...

I am referring to the causes, the fucking causes, not that we need to sit down and have some kind of fucking pow-wow...

Maybe we should start to look at the fact the our collective foreign policy may play a part in the problem, but no! how could we ever look within ourselves for a cause to the problems we are experiencing...

That makes no sense, but I'll tell you what makes a lot more sense, I take a fuck load of bombers and soldiers and other very fucking lethal shit and go into a couple of countries that have no provable link to my issues and slaughter a bunch of fucking innocent people, and then after that I'll sit back and fucking complain that it seems to be getting worse!

The thing is don, they really seriously believe - or more to the point, have been deluded into believing - that the interpretation of the Koran they have been taught is faultless. They don't believe in a democracy. It's like those fucking fanatical Christians; you can talk the hind legs off the donkeys they ride in on but you sure as shit won't persuade them to think more rationally.

I personally would welcome a diversion of resources to a "War on Mosquitoes", and possibly a "War on People Who Ride Bikes on the Pavement Without Due Care and Attention".

Sorry, who is this referring to? By "bombers", do you mean planes, or monkeys dressed in vests packed with explosives?

Oh, so thats the issue you have. You want a love-fest. Well, that is a lovely thought but Bin-Laden and the other splinter groups that set themselves up, kidnap and kill (unless they get their hands on some ransom money) may not want a love-in.

What was the Talebans issue with those ancient Bhudda things they blew up? Oh yes, they were not part of the Koran so they had to go. If that is their logic I guess that only a chat and a cup of tea will sort it out.

You are obviously offering the peace, love and harmony card. However the problem is much complicated than you assume. These people hate you and me because they are brainwashed that way. If you would go to Iraq now, they wouldn't give a f*** even if you love them as brothers, they would shoot you at gunpoint cause you are not "obeying" the Sharia law and that you are a foreigner and an infidel. The learned hatred is a hard one to change.

You all have missed the point.
We humans will never fully solve our troubles of conflicts and WAR.
Whose who use God's name to commit crime ( including Christians ) will face their maker one day.
Simple fact is that we will continue to wage War on humans and kill more and more until peace comes one day.
It will not happen by accident, but will be achieved by a geart "peace maker".
War on Terror..ha...by causing terror...Not working.

Now THAT is the Truth.

Dunno about hard to change, but carpet bombing such a large area would be prohibitively expensive, one would think. Oops, mentioned carpet bombing..sorry...I'll try and be more "understanding"..lets see, erm, mass castration. Yep, that'd do it. Wipe out the problem in a nice humane way.

isn't Bush referring to his work in Iraq as 'God's will' too?
for example.
I'd say that's quite fanatical.
it's the whole 'my God is better than yours'. both sides need to see reason IMO.

Both of the above quotes are quite obviously meant to be derisive...

At no point have I advocated a cup of fucking tea and a love in...

I have merely said that perhaps we should look at whether our collective actions are having an effect...

If you fail to see that we are having any negative effect on the increasing tensions and escalating violence than maybe we are on completely different wavelengths here...


Bullshit!

At what point have I offered love and harmony, although it would be preferable to fucking B52's and well armed soldiers killing people in my name!

The only way you can throw out such rubbish as fact without having experienced that first hand (and I mean having those words and action directed at you) is if you have accepted the bullshit brainwashing yourself!

Not at all. I'm accepting that we're in deep do do and violence will not solve the problem. The solution can only be education and dialog. The problem is who controls the education.

We're looking at decades to solve this there not a quick fixes.

Obviously I didn't make my point clearly enough or obviously you assume that opposing violence makes you a tree hugger?

Can I talk to your donkey for a moment please?

Islamic terror groups shifted into high gear in the 1990s, well before Bush and the Iraq War.

G H W Bush 41st President of the United States In office January 20, 1981 – January 20, 1989?

Yes that's why we were all so widely affected by their actions.

I know I was shaking in my boots through the 90's.

Couldn't go outside without having some fucking nutty Islamer trying to shove a koran in my hand.

Just like right now,

In my day to day life, the effects of these people are being felt right now as I type with fear and loathing of my drive home this afternoon!

Well, if we have accepted the the bullshit and brainwashing, just remember that we are on a discussion board, we are not in charge of a country.

There are others that have accepted bullshit and brainwashing that are in charge of countries that will soon have nuclear weapons (Iran) and admit they have the means to do it. Others have stated that they intend to "wipe Israel off the map", others that deny that there was any "holocaust" in WWII and also deny the existence of a single homosexual in their country.

These are the chaps that you need to be chatting to, these are the chaps that you need to be reasoning with over a cup of tea. I am sure that if you pop over, in the name of peace, all will be just dandy (but I advise you take a stealth bomber and leave the donkey and palm leaves at home for another mission)

apparently (s)he feels like blowing up as many fellow muslims in market places as possible if news reports are to be believed

And the chap building the nuclear weapons is equally sure in his mind that he is right. You just have to accept that both sides are totally convinced they are right and both prepared to back that up by violence. Neither side will win like this unless you break the other side down completely. History is not full of examples where violence won a conflict quickly.

Way back in the day (i.e. less than ten years ago) they were bombing US embassies and killing hundreds of African civilians in the process - naturally no one gave a shit. My point was more to indicate that despite the criticisms that one can levy at Bush, he is not to blame for Islamic terrorism.

As I said, *listen*, It is human nature to WAR.
It will go on, if it is Bush or Saddam, or Hitler, it does not matter.

Absolutely true. His methods of trying to solve the problem weren't too clever though. The rest of the worlds sitting back and going lah lah lah for a long time we also to blame. It was clear, to me at least, that the rise of fundamentalism as going to be a problem for the better part of a decade. We just sat back and watched it happen as the oil kept coming.

Bullshit...

It is not human nature and to demonstrate the point I present exhibit number 1...

ME!

well now the bullshit human nature argument is gone...

please present something else!!!

Then WHY do we war?
Isn't it because we WANT something ?
It IS in our nature to WAR.
As oppsed to exhibit #1, I can give you hundereds of other exhibits.
Type the word "war" in google.

I don't think you can say that it is in our nature to war. The average man on the street doesn't want to go to war and risk dying. Its in our nature to live, to survive and to do so we need access to certain resources be it food, water, oil or space to expand. Conflict often arises over the control and ownership of these resources.

In your above statement there is no valid reasoning for the human nature claim...

Type in cockwad in google and you will also get hits...

Once again... the original post refers to the need to question and re-examine our current strategy for dealing with this issue...

You have weighed in heavily on the 'bomb the fuckers' side of the solution...

I would propose something a little more logical and peaceful...

I am saying that we are affecting our own ends and you would have it that we are totally removed from the situation and somehow these individuals just 'hate our freedom' or 'just want sharia law'...

when we examine the situation from a historical and logical perspective we are reaping the fruits (rotten as they may be) from the seeds we have sown!

I think I am misunderstood.

I mean to say that it is in our nature to WAR, ( but I did not mean to say that we all will acutualy WAR when the opportunity presents itself, all the time).
Sorry.

Well, the War on Drugs only created more of a drug problem. The War against Aids hasn't helped much either..

Mother Theresa refused to join an Anti-War organization once because she knew that focusing on a negative, only creates more of it. The alternative is to create a "Government for Peace", or "American Agency for Understanding and Tolerance". It would work alot better, based on a different premise. But of course, that isn't the real agenda of the current administration. They don't really want peace, peace isn't profitable and doesn't keep the under-educated masses fearful enough to control.

For once, we agree.

The real alternative to the war on terror would be bomb Iran. Also that would cause havoc in the Emirates and Qatar so putting them back to being camel dealers before they buy up the whole of western world.

You wouldn't have come from one of the armed services by any chance would you?

There always has been extremists that want, for example, to instate Sharia law and other such things. You cannot get rid of all these people, even though if they commit a crime we should be trying to actively lock them up.

What we need to do is actively marginalise them. But having a "war on terror" and killing hundred's of thousands of their people is that we do the exact opposite. They now have a cause and don't sound so crazy anymore.