How to handle Christmas time family hurt

I have been talking to my younger sister with whom I am very close for months (if not years) about coming to visit and really spending time together..teaching her to cook certain recipes (which she wants to learn), chatting, shopping etc..

We are close we talk EVERY single day.

So I bought my ticket to the States to leave on December 7th and come back on the 5th of Jan. I am flying to Atlanta and will fly my son up from Florida to Atlanta.

The goal was to spend time with all of my family so Atlanta is the best option. But my sister knew that she had priority. However, I wasn't planning on staying there the entire time as we (my son and I) would be visiting my other sister as well.

She tells me all the time how important I am to her etc..and I tell her the same.

So yesterday I got a call from her HUSBAND

he says:

"Hi, uh..I thought D (my sister) was kidding when she said you were coming to visit. I thought that you would want to go to Florida to be with your son??

I replied...well I want to see ALL of my family and I can't go to Florida because

1. The ticket was twice as much (actually more then double)

2. My grandparents are at my aunts and uncles (where my son is) and my aunt has back problems so it would be tremendous stress on them for me to go there

anyway...then he says:

"well my sister and her husband are coming to visit at Christmas. So if you want we can find you a hotel nearbye and you can call us when you get into town and come up to visit us for a few days".

OK, firstly:

His sister and her husband (as far as I know) live only a couple of hours away at most)

I am flying from across the Atlantic

I don't imagine that his sister and her husband are staying the entire time that I will be in the States?

My father lives there too, in a down stairs apartment..Upstairs they have three bedrooms and no children.

I thought that my sister and I were the closest people in the world. When her and her husband (the one that called me) came to Germany twice, I put them up and cooked for them and doted over them. So happy to have them visit. Even from our very small apartment with a child (in comparison to their large house with no children).

They also want to move to Germany now and have asked for my advice and I have made it clear I would do anything to help out.

When I tried to call my sister yesterday her assitant told me "she will have to call you when she gets home because she can't take personal calls at work anymore"...

background: we talk every day

She never called.

Her husband made it very clear that he is not welcoming me to stay at their house. In a very polite way mind you. And he has no reason to be impolite. We have had to fights or disagreements.

Alright, I don't want to impose.

But I am so hurt and so shocked and now becoming so angry that I hardly feel like eating.

Her husband actually ended the conversation with "well give us a call when you are in town, I am sure your dad would like to see you. We love and appreciate you."

WTF?!! Call them from the 7 eleven or something? Or from the Atlanta airport?

Now I made arrangements with other family members..but I am so hurt that I don't even want to see my sister and most definately not her husband. But I also hate to perpetuate bad feelings. But I cried until about 2 am last night and the thought of seeing my sister or letting her see me so upset makes my stomach turn.

Has anyone else faced this kind of thing with Christmas time visits?

I don't think I would fancy anyone staying at my house for a whole month over Christmas. A week is cool, but beyond that is excessive.

Johnny, I wasn't staying there for a month. I have plans to stay with my other sister and my biological father as well. I also have not spent this much time in the States in seven years..and for months and months my sister and I have talked about how nice it would be to spend quality time together.

So how long were you inviting yourself for then?

I wasn't inviting myself. The duration I would have been there is about 10 days. When my sister and I talked about it last week, we discussed what we would do (cook, hangout etc)..she will be working most of the time so I would be keeping my father company (the one who lives there) who happens to be very depressed and lonely since my mother died.

Then all of the sudden her husband calls...

Sorry to hear about that Saint. Very weird. Methinks you'll have to talk to your sister to get the right angle on this.

well I have to disagree there Johnny sorry. But if I had my sister or brother visiting me from Wales over Christmas I would be very delighted and I would look forward to it and having family members visit and stay.

@ Saint strange thing though. It seems that you do not have a very good relationship to your siters's husband so it seems and that he is against it and maybe not your sister but she is in between the both of you?

Try calling your sister again, I cleared up one situation with my sister once - she had been upset because she thought I hadn't been supporting her enough when she was going through a rough time. As it turned out her cheating husband hadn't been passing on my messages and he had even deleted the ones I left on the answering machine!

Welsh man..I have never had any problem with her husband at all! In fact, he really wants to come to Germany and I have been around to answer any questions and have volunteered to help out with the process of him getting his work visa etc..

When I was still in Germany there was a time when my sister thought he would come over to do interviews and of course I made it clear he was welcome to stay with us.

Uncle Nick, I guess I will call her but I need to get my emotions in check first. I have heard from so many people about Christmas time "family issues" but this is the first time I have experienced it.

Am doing 2 months (Dec & Jan) to NZ with my brother's (and of course the Kiwibride's) as my base, having my own room and key. While I won't be there the whole two months, as will be travelling in NZ and to Australia, I will be there for Christmas (spending it with the Kiwibride's family), Hogmanay then Burns' Night and their church wedding on Jan 26th.

My sister and her husband will also be over from mid-January.

The NZ end of my family is very keen to see me over and while I'm close to my brother, we keep in touch online or via SMS a fair bit (usually me at a concert and hearing a song he likes) rather than phoning, this means that the expectations about my trip were clear to both sides early on before the flight was booked and his wife's family are very much included (which means I think I'll have to watch a lot of cricket).

Mind you, we'll probably have a bust-up when I'm there ha ha ha

I like to have people staying with me but when I travel I prefer to stay at a hotel. Partly because I don't want to impose (even though the other person might not think that at all) and partly because I want to have my own space.

Oh, I know where you're coming from. Every time a visit has been discussed one way or the other, I have always ended up being extremely disappointed. From my own parents, only my father came to Germany to see me get married, and he chose to stay for three and a half days in total. When I told him I was pretty disappointed about it, he asked my why. Couldn't understand since he was going to be staying for "around a week". Huh?

I don't know what your situation is, but I have learned that not coming to visit regardless of how often I offer and how many times I have come to visit them (many times on short notice leaving everything here in Germany hanging), my parents will continue to do this to me, because it is their only passive-aggressive way of getting back at me for abandoning them.

These family situations where emotions and expectations run high are the worst and quickly get out of hand. I have learned that I need to keep expectations on family members close to zero no matter how well we get along how how close we are, as all have continuously disappointed me in exactly the way you are describing. You just can't possible understand what they could be thinking to treat you like that or what you could have done to deserve it. Unfortunately, I have learned that being the family member living the farthest away or in another country makes you and your feelings count for next to nothing. Many no longer take you seriously since you aren't present most of the time. You are effectively "second class" family: the first to get crapped on and the last to get a piece of the pie.

My issue was with plotting up for a month at someone's house over Christmas. If (as was not made clear) it is only 10 days then that of course should be fine.

I am sure another phone call will get the answer and we can all collectively sleep again at night.

haha..that's sweet that you would lose sleep over me Johnny Or at least pretend to! LOL...

Keydeck, if I was visiting friends for an extending period (like more than a couple of days) I would also prefer to stay in a hotel. But my family, who I hardly ever see...I just want to be close to them. Especially my litter sister as for me, the sun rises and sets on her.

Katrina, ..two months in NZ..I'm jealous!

Translation:

I always fancy my chances of copping off with a local, and I can't do the monkey sex stuff round at the rellies gaff.

hmmm..and that opens a whole other can of worms as many other expats can testify. My mother refused to ask me about life in Germany the first 4 years I lived there. It was the same thing. For years some of my family acted as if I never went anywhere..it was odd. But I have heard the same thing from other expats.

Perhaps nobody noticed that you'd left? According to my Father my Mother always set the table for three people whilst I was away in Germany and at uni... She's mental though.

Saint, I really feel for you. I can imagine this horrible twisting feeling you must be feeling. I hope you can talk to your sister and sort it out. I come from a large Polish family where extended family visits are the norm (and expected gladly). I wonder if your brother in law is behind this, putting his own family first. It seems very strange to me.

When I return to Australia for two months soon, I will only be staying with family (though different ones all over the place). Its partly an issue of finance and also mutually not wanting to be anywhere else but in each other´s company. I would actually disagree from my own experience with Ben Gunn´s comment as I find that being the only family member who has lived away for 10 years out of the last 12, I get treated extra special and everyone is glad to see me for a short but intense time. Maybe they wouldn´t be so glad if I was round more

We don´t live in each other´s pocket, but if someone is flying around the world...

Said hubby is being a total jerk. Don't pull any punches. Say it like it is otherwise they will think it is totally acceptable to act like assholes where you are concerned. I have been here ten years and not a single sister has come to visit. Its too expensive for them, but they don't give a second thought to just assuming that I will come there. Freaked them out this year when I said we weren't coming to the reunion.
Just dropped my father off at the airport for his trip home and his visits mean the world to us. We will probably travel to the states next year, but on our own terms and we will not be traveling all the time just to see the family. They can drive to see us.

I see two possible interpretations here

1) Your sister wanted to invite you over and discussed it at some length with you before she mentioned it to her husband. He was either not keen on having you to stay or not pleased it had been arranged without his input.

or

2) Your sister didn't know how to say no to the plan so left it up to her husband to do it for her.

Talk it through with your sister, if she's upset by this too then I can understand her not wanting to take your call at work.

Renia,

I thought there was some issue about Christmas with one of your extended family members? It's all sorted? How did you handle it?


wow...and I thought it was bad that it took four years for my sister and dad to visit! I have always found it odd that so many expats have family members that care nothing about coming to visit Europe. They invite them but they just don't seem to care to come. If someone who loved me invited me to come to another country to visit them where they live, I would love that! And would reciprocate. I wonder if it is an American reaction more than an English one? ..or do English TT'ers have similar reactions from their family to them being "on the continent"??

Nothing useful to offer other than support, because I've had to deal with the same kind of family issues. I agree with Ben about the second class family member phenomenon; they expect the person who left to do double or triple the work in the relationship, to make up for having left. And it's never enough.

By the way I think the "yeah we want to move to Germany, too" thing is just a phase these kinds of family members go through.

I sorted it by talking to them (in time, not immediatedly). I also felt much better when I didn´t speak or email in anger... as I´m sure you won´t do. ( One of my four siblings made plans without including me, yes, I was upset...)

But what has happened in the end, is that I am not going for Christmas. We have a 90th birthday party to attand in January, so decided to tie the trip in with that.

Yes, I know it isn't an isolated occurence by any means. It just seemed to be possibly applicable in your situation. My family refused for years to believe that I wasn't coming back. They put pressure on me the entire time. My sweet old grandmother used to greet me on each visit with tears in her eyes asking "When are you coming home?" Then, after six years they did the opposite and pretty much wrote me off. Now they ask me all the time why I don't have my German citizenship yet. I guess they wanted to show me that I wasn't going to have my cake and eat it too or some such nonsense.

As you say, though, it is a whole other can of worms. Some day, when I'm mad at my family for some other thoughtless thing they've done -- and it's only a matter of time -- I'll start a thread about it, and we can all compare stories. Meanwhile, if I were you, I'd call your sister and find out what's really going on. Put the pressure back on her to find a solution, since you and she had made the plans and now she's the one who supposedly needs to change them, why should you be the one who has to agonize over it when they want to turn everything upside down?

Yes, I certainly do.

I'll be back later guys..I'm going to go drown myself in some espresso...If I was with you guys in Munich I'd say.."sod the cycling Johnny and lets go get drunk at Oktoberfest!"

Not over Christmas time visits but during other times. After all my experiences, I always get a hotel room or stay in my old apartment back home. It saves me the agony and dissapointment of trying to settle old issues and fulfill any expectations that the members family might have.

Think this thread has hit a nerve with everyone. I've been away for 9 years now and thank goodness have my mother on my side. She continuously has had to fight the other relatives defending why I can't just live closer to all of them etc..

It's hard going back to visit cause in some ways people don't realize how it feels to be our situations. When I go back I get excited to visit with everyone, but a lot of people almost seem to have forgotten about me. Time budgeting is also a hassle. You're either imposing for too long, or offending someone else by not spending enough time with them.

I definitely try not to visit anyone (friends or family in any of my homes of the past) over the holiday cause it always ends in anger/disappointment... I find it better to spend Christmases with my pseudo family of friends I have made where I currently am. Much cheaper and less stress to visit at non holiday times.

That's exactly what happened to me. First couple years, people are pleased to see you...

I'm probably in the minority here but I think Christmas visits are a lot of hassle for such a short space of time. What's wrong with the rest of the year?

So true. So true. Holiday visits are always the least enjoyable and most disappointing for me. Plus, the German wife starts to drive me nuts after a week.

I hate getting ignored when I DO visit some people. You sit around feeling unwelcome and uncomfortable, and nobody asks you a blessed thing about your life, and acts as if they see you so often they're tired of your company. Conversation tends to focus on mundane day-to-day aspects of their lives or things I couldn't possibly have anything to say about-- such as secondhand conversations between people I've never heard of. It's bizarre. I ask myself whether these people were always like this to some degree, and I'd just never realised it, or whether this is triggered specifically by a move overseas. I guess it's both.

It's sad because there's nothing you can do but watch things fall apart.

Saint, maybe it's not you, but your son? Don't you have a son that is like 18 or something (maybe I'm confusing you with someone else).

I go through this same thing with my boyfriend. We have a 3BR 3BA house in Germany yet when my closest friends from the States come, he doesn't want them to stay with us. I'm always stuck in the middle. However, I just told them that he is being a selfish ass and I would love for them to stay with me but, instead, I will stay with them in their hotel for the weekend. That worked out great.

Hang in there. Believe it or not it'll all work out. You might have some hurt feelings in the process and it may not work out how you'd like, but in the end you'll have a decent time. You may be close to your sister, but focus on everyone else you'll be excited to see and that you'll have some quality time with your son (tell him hi for me please and he needs to live by me becuase i need a dog walker)

well I have just experienced this situation myself not so long ago. As some of you might know I got married round about 4 weeks ago. I invited my family who live in Wales. I had to chase after most of them to find out if they are going to join and come over or not. The end of the story is that a lot of my family turned down the invitation or didn't even answer. My parents weren't there my brother didn't bother calling me back or letting me know if yes or no and just didn't show up. So all in all 3 family members out of approx 20 turned up to the wedding and were happy to be invited. So I think as mentioned earlier on as soon as a family member moves away from the family to a different country then you are indeed second class or no longer considered that much.

sorry to hear that Welsh man, that must've really hurt...

That does suck. My family are pretty dysfunctional but I reckon they would rock up for a wedding. I say don't invite them to your funeral.

Thanks Mere but I learned from this and I am warned in the future


How right you yre Johnny. I'll bury myself with my bum sticking up through the dirt so that they can kiss my arse if they came to visit

Jebus - our lot can get to Wellington and yours can't get from Wales? Ouch.

but hey I don't want to pinch Saint's topic.

I think you classify as being "on topic". (e.g. family sucks)

So out of curiosity do you think it was especially an issue 'cos we are in the land of the pointy helmets - or do you think would have been the same if you were getting married in Amsterdam or summat?

wouldn't matter where I was and had nothing to do with the pointy helmets just my most twatty family that's all. Oh well I have recovered over this shock and was indeed more than pissed off but I learned my lesson.

Although, judging from their previous behaviour, they will probably use it to park the bike.

I don't think that family ever can impose. What a weird guy.. why would she be kidding about that?


My mom actually did this to me once.. she and I get along so well but I think sometimes they don't think about that kind of stuff since they see each other all the time. My mom told me once to meet everyone in a restaurant in Manhattan when I arrived. I was like.. uh, I'll have my duffelbag and look like shit from the flight.. can I not stop by somewhere first and at least have a freshen up and drop off my bag? I got all bent out of shape, started pitying myself saying "I'm travelling across the big blue ocean to come visit you jerks and no one will even suggest picking me up from the airport?? WTF? Luckily my sister-in-law understands my way of thinking and got my brother on the job - he even came to pick me up.


I totally understand you, but maybe your sister doesn't even know what he'd said to you?? You should definitely talk to her about it.. I feel that you should never hold things back from family, especially if you're very close.

Good luck.. don't be sad

Just 'cos you share some chromosomes with me does NOT give you the right to come round my house and drink all my beer.

Family need to obey the same basic rules as friends. In fact they need to be MORE careful as you can choose your friends but you can't choose your family.

For example I would never dream of asking to stay overnight at my father's house. As it happens I don't even know how many bedrooms or bathrooms he has 'cos we have tea
in the lounge on visits.

At least you guys have families to moan about - if I invited my entire extended family to my wedding there would be 7 people, me and my parents included. And my cousin's a cunt so I wouldn't invite him.

As a side point, nobody in Jimbo's family has a deep voice.

I solve this problem by not going home for the holidays... I do find that most people that live back home think I am on a permanent holiday here, and do nothing, they don`t realize you work, have a normal life and get this guilt from the family if you don`t go home for the holidays. Since when do flights go only in one direction? Heck we fly back from NA, so they could also fly this way too, oder?

Sorry to hear about your troubles, Saint. No time at the moment to go through all the responses, but I can share a personal experience.

My husband's family get together for a group webchat every Sunday, and did when we were in Germany, as well. Then, it was all, oh, I wish we could be together, and won't it be great to spend time together, etc. While in reality, they came to visit once in the 6 years we were in Munich, and when we visited there (once a year or a bit oftener), we only ever spent a couple of days with them because they couldn't make time in their busy lives. Now we have lived for 9 months about 4-5 hours from them by car, and only hubby's mom has ever been here to visit, and that once and for about 24 hours.

I think they are genuinely glad to see us when we do get together, but they can't be arsed to make the effort to actually organize a visit. I think maybe they have nothing more to say to each other every week except that they wish they were all together - it fills the time. I also suspect that now that we have a child, there is some grousing that my parents get to see mini-cinz more than they do, but they have been up four or five times already and are thrilled that we are on this side of the ocean again.

I do agree with Uncle Nick that you should check (maybe via e-mail) to see if you've offended someone unknowingly.

I am gong back to see my family at the beginning of July next year...

We usually have an arguement and I have to talk to my brother... When should I start my "Bitching thread?"

Thanks for making my Day Saint...