Is €45k + €6k bonus a good salary in Berlin?

I rummaged through all the threads I could. The threads on this site are definitely much more informative than any other source I have encountered.
My friend is a mobile apps programmer with >3.5 years experience in mobile OSes like WinCE, Palm, Series60 and Symbian. He has an offer from a multinational with a permanent position based in Berlin. The offer consist of 45.5K Euro + 6500 Euro bonus.. The comp has offered to provide relocation to him and his wife (no kids yet).
Is this a good offer for him to accept? He is pretty good in his area of work.

I thought mobile app programmer were in a hot demand these days and would be paid a bomb.. esp when its difficult to find a good expert these days. In my opinion, this is almost an average pay. Can anyone tell me whether this move is justified for him?

It sounds a bit cheap to me, although since it is a permanent position it is expensive for the company. I'm sure he could double the basic salary as a contractor.

45K (even with the bonus) is definitely not a superb offer. I would even say below average; for the Munich area it definitely is underpaid, assuming that his skills are as rare as described.

If he cannot negotiate on the salary, he should try to get some other goodies, like (private) health insurance being paid by the company (which is a double edged sword if he wants to look for another job in Germany afterwards), free language courses for him and his wife (for as long as the stay is), etc.

The company tried to justify the offer saying that Berlin is a cheap place with low taxes.. Salaries are usually lower in East Germany..
Looking at other discussions in this forum, I think he should bargain for nothing less than 55K Euro (bonus not included).. What would be a good salary for a special skills person in Berlin?
His objectives are good (not lavish though) quality life and a cash-pay that justifies his skills.. He is trying to evaluate the Berlin offer with the prospective offers in the US and the UK. Does anybody have any clue on the best option suited in this case, considering that money is a major parameter?

Taxes are no cheaper in Berlin than they are anywhere else.. he'll still lose 45% or so of his salary each month.. it is however pretty cheap to get a nice apartment there..

Justified or not is something that only him can asses. It's not only about the money, it's also a matter of quality of life. He'll have to decide where he would have a better life in general. With that salary he won't starve in Berlin, that's for sure. And he's married so he won't be paying the full 45% on taxes.
45K is an average salary for a developer on a fix position, mobile apps or not. 3.5 years of experience is not that much, sorry. He's also getting 15% on top and a relocation package which is probably also about 10-15% from the gross annual pay.
Maybe he could try to negotiate a pay raise after his first year based on performance. If he is as good as you put it then he should be able to deliver excellent results and justify a higher salary.

€45k for a permanent position is not that bad! If you include the bonus that works out at over €4k per month which will leave you with over €2k take home pay. I live in Munich where rent is pretty high and I pay just over €1k for my three room flat (85m²). In Berlin you should not have to pay as much, leaving you with even more spare cash. As a contrator you may earn more, but then again you have to pay for all your medical insurance as opposed to having your employer pay half of it. There are also other costs involved such as social security (if you want it) and Arbeitsunfähigkeitsversicherung which would guarantee you pay in case of illness, all of which is already taken out of your gross income if you have a permanent position.

Getting a very good raise 1 year after joining based on your performance would be a dream come true. Anyways, my friend is looking for a long term association with the employer. In my opinion, its a very ideal situation for the employer : a potentially good employee, committed for a long term bond.
Being a multinational, the way they are bargaining is really shocking.. I did not expect this..
Guys, can somebody give some figures? What should he expect/demand in terms of cash, assuming that comp is going to provide standard amneties generally given by other companies? It would be good we can have figures for Munich and Berlin.. Just don't want to waste a genuine guy's talent for lack of information/communication..
As per the HR's calculation, he would get around 2500 Euros on hand.. Deducting 1100 Euro for expenses/rent, he still has 1300-1400 Euro savings, which is fair. Bonus is additional..

The problem is that in the last few years, entrance pay has fallen in the CS field in Germany (and i mean considerably, by like up to 10%). As a fresh graduate in CS, specialized for some field (like mobile apps programming), you can typically expect around €41k-42k nowadays on average. With fluctuation across the board ranging about +- €2.5k. As Berlin is "cheap" as they say, you can much rather put that at the low end there, meaning around €38-39k entrance payment.

With 3.5 years experience, your friend would usually count as experienced good enough for the "beyond-entrance" stage (usually 2+ years). Not good enough to be an expert (more like 5+ years). That's what they offer the extra ~€5-6k per month for, as well as bonus and relocation.

It's a "reasonable" first offer on their side, i'd guess. He could probably wrangle a bit more out of them though.

Your comment was quite informative. Thanks.
The company had initially offered him 41K Euro (including the bonus) + rellocation. He bargained and brought this deal of ~51-52K (including bonus) on the table. The comp has offered rellocation, mobile subscription and home internet connection. He has accepted the offer at this stage. His point is that the comp is a very good brand in mobile apps domain and he is being offered a permanent position. Also, his work area is a next generation mobile domain. This should add a good value to his career over a long period. He didn't want to stretch negotiations too far for the fear of breaking it. Do you think the offer is worth taking? Also, one apprehension he has is how good would his professional growth be in the organization since he would be a foreigner there. Is it true that growth of a foreigner employee in a German orgnization is slower compared to his German counterparts in the same place?

Is your friend you by any chance?

If it's not, he certainly lives in his pocket.

I wish my friend was 'me'.. Anyways, last few postings are all his views. Your question is justified though..
Though my buddy is actively following up with discussions, he doesn't want to dilute the discussions by making a late disclosure. We didn't expect this forum to be so informative, it was just a casual post I put in a bid to help him initially. The incentive for me is, if it turns out to be a good deal for him, he would be guiding me make a similar move. Its a symbiotic give-n-take, rather than 'being in one-another's pocket' principle ;-).
Anyways guys, I must say ppl are pretty helping on this site.
So guys, instead of digging up this trivial mystery, it would be helpful to lots of ppl if someone could answer the real questions.. Thanks..

No idea about this specific field, but fresh out of school (Diplom) engineers from decent programs start at 42 K euro in decent firms. HTH.

so guys.. how much is supposed to be a decent pay for a permanent position for a mobile apps programmer with 3.5 years? I guess the question still remains...

That didn't take long, it seems:

Come on man.. Does it really matter? And if it does, you can safely assume it either way.. I'm fine with both the ways..
Pls don't mind it, because its not going to matter.. ;-)
My quest still remains unresolved.. If 51-52k for a permanent position is not good enough, than what is it that one should bargain for?

It is good for you but bad for your friend

Haven't you read already the rest of the threads about salary? Can't you see, or haven't you understood that "enough" is a subjective term? For me enough is 150K a year, there you have a number, go bargain for that. Next year when you still at home let me know how much you are making.

why only 150K? Lets talk in terms of millions.. Its very understandable that enough means 'NOT' having undersold as per the market rate..
Its a matter of changing countries and moving families.. U don't want to end up realising that u have undersold yourself..
Anyways, the question was for those who understand language..

Hello it seems like no one has told the guy how cheep Berlin is do you all live in stupid Munich ?
Berlin is amazing I bought a 135 sqm apartment for 100k in a really cool area of central east Berlin with amazing transport, 24hour tram etc etc I can afford to eat in a local restaurant every night, and I did for the first few months while I installed my kitchen. Like less than 10 euros for a full meal with wine !! and if I just want a pizza at home its 3 euros and its 10 times better than any pizza in the UK, Berlin is the hottest city in Europe right now its amazing the music the Art, life life life you'll want to leave your job so you have more time to enjoy this fantastic city as you could well afford to live on 10k !!!

Maybe Berlin is cheap, but €45k + bonus is taking the piss. He should be looking at 65 - 70K if he's any good which the Company obviously thinks that he is.

As a contractor he'd be looking at €65-€70 per hour.

Guys.. thanks for your inputs..
I'm not looking at loads of money at a cost of quality of life.. Just was concerned that the offer is not a cheap bargain..
I queried with employees from MNCs working in Germany.. It sounds like what I am being offered is a respectable salary when compared.

Being a contractor is a different ball-game. I've a family and look forward to a life outside work as well. Additionally, I'll be on a work-permit. So, working as a contractor brings additional complexities in visa processing. Hence, cotracting is out-of question for now.

Seems afterall that it was you who wanted some information and not any friend. TTer's would still have answered your questions even if you were asking those questions.

Yes.. You are right, to some extent. 'My friend' has become 'me' since quite a few posts.. :-)
And I tried to answer this one before too..
Ofcourse, I had no reason to hide my identity and I didn't either..
And yes.. Thanks to all the TTers for the answers/opinions they post... Very helpful indeed.. :-)

Don't forget when dealing that bonuses are not always paid... most companies can fiddle the goals etc. to suit themselves...