Courses to become a dog-trainer

I have been scouting the net for courses to be a dog-trainer. I don't own a dog but want to learn the art of training dogs anyway. Would like to know if there's anything I need to know beforehand, bear in mind ...?

hi sweetypie
i work in animal resuce centre by day the girl there is going on a dog training course which starts ( i think) January she said it costs 4000 euros ) but hopefully be worth it in the end as shed like to start her own dog training business
i think its near the Konig Sea a 3 hour drive away from here. not sure how far from stuttgart, but maybe its one of the best, ill find out more for you this week

there aren't any specific courses. there are a few courses, but they don't necessarily mean anything and it all depends on your learning/training theory and experience for if they'd be helpful. there are some courses at schools and others over the web. Is there a specific trainer you've worked with or seen? Ask them if you can start to shadow some of their classes/clients to see if you truly are interested and to see which theories you most agree with and would want to use.
there are also a few different exams, one specifically that is great.

two things you need to sort out before you invest in a course or exam. I'm more than willing to offer suggestions, but first answer-

what type of training do you want to do?

what training methods would you like to use or do you agree with?

I am a trained Veterinary Nurse and Dog Behaviorist, and I highly recommend as a starting point the book 'The Dog Listener' by Jan Fennel. A good building block to understanding the psychology behind the canine.

Good luck ^^

You'll want to check out the Association of Pet Dog Trainers (APDT). It was started by Ian Dunbar back in 1993 and is trying to bring some standards and proper certification to dog training. They now have members worldwide. There's a section on their web site called "So you want to be a dog trainer" that has quite a few tips and info.

Try to catch " The Dog Whisperer " on Channel 3. ...Cesar Millan... Must be the best of all dog trainers around. Our own dog, after watching his show, is a changed animal, and all in six weeks of persistance. His books are also available on Amazon, and Videos, albeit in NTSC format. He is the most impressive trainer I have ever seen in action. No dog too fierce or troublesome for Cesar.

Incidentally, a point that Cesar stresses often, is that the problem is NEVER the dog, it is always the owner of the dog.!!! He claims to Rehabilitate dogs, and then to TRAIN owners. Sounds funny at first, but when you see his amazing results, then you will surely agree...Remember, dogs are animals, and can never be treat as humans. Love them all you want, but they remain animals, and as such will always need a LEADER ... you MUST become the leader, otherwise your dog will rule you, and your household.

Best wishes for your career.

Raffles.

That's either an amazing dog trainer, or you have an amazing dog.

Definitely with you on that one Raffles. Watch the programme and use his techiniques with our dog. Results are amazing, as it the programme. Did not think I would ever see a large group of roaming pitbulls that were so well behaved and subjugated

Umm... don't want to get into a big discussion of training techniques, but Milan's are quite controversial in the dog training world. Do a google search and you'll find numerous ongoing discussions about both the pros and cons of using his methods. People seem to either love him or hate him with little middle ground. He doesn't seem to have much in the way of accreditation. I'd be hesitant to advise anyone to do a roll and try to dominate an aggressive larger dog, no matter what Milan says. But that's a matter of personal choice, whether you wish to train your dog to obey, or completely subjugate the animal.

IMO, Milan has some good points, and some bad points. There's no "one size fits all" style of training, and the best trainers are flexible enough to adapt to each animal's individual needs. The most successful training methods can be adapted to any animal, be it dog or porpoise. I'd love to see Milan try his techniques on a wolf or bear though.

That is the point, he trains dogs and he trains them well. You may as well say "I'd love to see Milan try his techniques on a Wildebeest or a Great White".

If he is good enough to rehabilitate fighting Pitbulls and is recommended by Denise Richards, he is ok by me.

If there is any truth in this, he belongs in gaol, the fucker. I certainly wouldn't be someone using his techniques.

Yep, and issue a law suit to pay millions (why not, he has it).

Hey, dogs hunt in packs, why are you alone in this one (hunt)?

By the way, it is over 1500 euro for a puppy sired from my mutt. (only after I have interviewed the potential breeder of course)

Glad to see that you are still enjoying our hospitality in Europe (before your visa runs out)

By the way, if you look at the full report, the bloke was not even present at the facility whilst the dog was, unfortunately injured.

I think you have struck another "28mpg" link. Still keep trying and you may succeed

"On May 5, 2006, Flody Suarez, a television producer for the TV series 8 Simple Rules, filed a lawsuit against Millan, claiming that his labrador retriever had been seriously injured while at Millan's training facility during an exercise routine on a treadmill.[7] National Geographic released a statement that Millan was not present at the facility at the time of the alleged incident. Millan has also claimed that Suarez's personal dog trainer was with the dog, Gator, while it was at the Dog Psychology Center and that he did not charge for use of the facilities. He allowed the trainer to bring Gator to the center as a favor. The hearing was cancelled, since a settlement (the terms of which were not made public) was reached on March 29, 2007. [8]"

It's in the US, it's what they do.

What hunt are you talking about? I simply read up about the guy and it seems that there are many seriously upset people about the techniques he employs.

That's, errrr, interesting. Thanks for the info.

Are you smoking crack or something? I don't get this at all.

Yes, that's quite correct. The chap left his pet in the care of the facility, a short few hours later it's bleeding from it's snout, badly bruised and in need of surgery to repair breathing problems. Is this to be expected when you drop your dogs with professional trainers?

Nope, Cigs are the strongest drug I take (unless prescribed)

Now, if you want to hunt fine, but come up with something worthwhile and factual.

For example, 28mpg, factual, proven. If you just want to snipe then take it elsewhere visa-boy

You are a fucking idiot. Plain and simple. You can't even hold a conversation.

Feelings mutual you cocky little Kiwi you. Now, be nice or you may have your visa revoked early. If you want to snipe go elsewhere and whinge about...well, pretty much everything. Anyway this is a dog training thread, maybe you should go along, you may just learn something.

Oh and as we are mud-slinging, you are a...well, I will not lower myself.

i'll read this all later but do NOT follow Cesar Millan! there are sooo many better and more humane trainers out there!
As someone suggested above check out APDT. They associate with the CPDT (exam). That's what i'd recommend and shadow/tag along with a trainer you respect to learn what they do. Most decen trainers/behaviorist will let others watch what they do and tag along as long as the person is sincere about wanting to work on their skills.

again, first before anything else sort out what type of training you want to do (manners, obedience, rally, agility, tracking, carting, behavior modification, etc.)

Then figure out what type of methods you like. e.g. Cesar Millan or Ian Dunbar/Jean Donaldson/Trish King/Patricia McConnell, there's some British lady who has a show on the animal planet that is like Cesar Millan's show, but uses the techniques of the latter group of trainers. It's called "It's Me or the Dog" I cannot presently think of the trainers name.

Agree with the comments to be hesitant with Cesar Milan. He’s done some good by bringing more attention to dog training and a few other things, but as others have pointed out many of his techniques are controversial. It's up to each person though. Everyone has their own opinion on how training should be done and how dogs should be treated. (hence me saying decide the 2 things of how you want to train and what).
Everyone has their own opinion on dog training. I’d say most people would rather use positive reinforcement rather than force on an animal. Just remember the quadrant of positive reinforcement, negative reinforcement, positive punishment, negative punishment.
Dog training has a lot to do with operant and classical conditioning. Using those techniques more often than not the dog will be more well adjusted versus if you use force based training and the “pack mentality�.
The whole Alpha Dog thing has kind of gotten out of control. Dogs ARE pack animals, but they are not always dominant and forcing it on each other like some trainer may lead you to believe.

Timmeh- there are other stories similar to that one. Why someone would use a prong collar on a dog on a treadmill (I’m biased though since I’ll try everything to not have to use them) is beyond me!
Some dogs might be able to take it. Others are too sensitive and would shut down and you’d end up ruining the dog. My dog for example can shut down if you use too harsh of a voice correction so any of Cesar’s techniques would cause him to become reactive out of a fear or shut down and live in fear.
You can’t train a dog who’s shut down or only reacts because they think they are going to receive an aversive. That’s all just my opinion though…

I don't condone any training which employs any form of cruelty, gets me well pissed off.

Thanks all. Have made a note of the recommendations . I had already enquired at the shelter for animals near Stuttgart about their courses . Now they are starting a Gassigeher Schulung in November. They have previously had training courses on understanding dog behaviour and helping a dog that has been previously abused or mistreated 'integrate' and 'socialise' . But this time, it's the Gassigeher Schulung. Here's more http://www.stuttgarter-tierschutz.de/ So I suppose I'll start with that one.

Yesterday, I took our neighbour's 2 year old Labrador with shiny black coat(Lucy) with our friend's 3 year German Shepherd (Nellie) with white fur and Nellie's current boyfriend, 7 year old Golden Retriever (Baloo), all Golden, for a 3 hour walk.

Lucy is extremely boisterous and doesn't seem to have any 'manners' at all. She ran around all over our friend's house, jumped into the pond, destroyed the lovely water lily there, returned indoors and made herself comfortable on the sofa with my friend as if she owned the property. Now Nellie is rather snobbish; she was the one who stood aloof at the Welpen Schule and couldn't give a damn about the leckerei that had all the other pups in a run. She sort of felt above it and never returned to school. But my friend has never known life without dogs and seems to have trained her well. And now, Nellie looked at Lucy like Royalty would look at Riff Raff and treated her as such. Meanwhile, Baloo had done his explorations and was hot on the trails of Lucy, much to Nellie's Chagrin. Nellie couldn't understand how he could lavish his affections on this young black beauty he had only just set eyes on and ignore her considering he had known her for over 2 years ! Nellie couldn't believe her own Baloo was betraying her! But men will be men ! She felt utterly humiliated. In these circumstances, I took them for a walk. Nellie wouldn't walk, showing her displeasure at Baloo's behaviour, Lucy tugged so hard at the Leash and nearly broke into a run, trying to avoid Baloo's overtures and Baloo was hot on the chase, occasionally glaring at me for keeping Lucy away. At the end of it, I was entangled among the three, each with an ulterior motive.

Yes, I am learning by doing!

In addition to the animal shelters, check out a Hundeverein (dog club) near you. I am a member of such a club, and we regularly organise and hold classes and lectures for people about things like dog body language and calming signals, dealing with aggression, dog first aid (taught by a local vet), and various other topics of interest. You could also simply show up at the dog club and watch as dog training classes are being held. You'd get a chance to see different dogs from puppies to adults, various lessons from basic obedience to sports, and get acquainted with different teaching styles. There are quite a few hundeverein in the Stuttgart area. Pick one near you, find out their regular schedule and just show up. Nobody will mind if you just watch quietly from the sidelines.

I don't think that Cesar sets himself up to be anything other than what he is. A dog re-habilitator... He obviously loves his role , and his dogs return his affection. Sure, he may have been bitten a few times, but this came from dogs whose owners have allowed them to become rulers of the domain. He doesn't TRAIN dogs to sit, stay, and all the usual " party tricks that most owners long for from their pets ... he CONTROLS them, and teaches the owners to do likewise.

He may have became very rich in his work, and famous to boot. Thank Oprah for that .. she aired him on her show.

The guy deserves every cent he makes. Who doesn't want the pleasure of walking a well-behaved dog ?. I love my dog, and she was always calm and docile, especially around children, but I feel that since watching Cesars' show a few times, that both my dog and I are closer than ever, simply by following his advice. It doesn't happen overnight with some dogs, and requires patience and repitition, but I was lucky, and my dog was transformed in a couple of days.Thank you Cesar.

Maybe the detractors would have a different attitude with him if he had lots of letters after his name. I give him some:-
GENIUS.

The thing is, dog’s don’t need to be controlled. You can reach a balance and be a benevolent leader to the dog without being a raging tyrant. It’s similar to kids- you need boundaries and manners, not a steel gloved hand to rule with. As for Oprah, amazing that although Millan was on her show, she does not use him. The trainer that Oprah used is Tamar Gellar. If you research both you’ll see that Millan and Gellar have different training philosophies.

As far as I know, you have to have the basic dog handling skills first and then you branch out. Dog training and behavior modification (or rehabilitator as you call it) aren’t mutually exclusive or inclusive. Generally, one cannot be successful at behavior modification if you do not have a basic understanding on how dogs learn and communicate. Most successful dog trainers also know this. Generally one starts with dog training and then advances to behavior modification since it requires a higher skill level. Again, there isn’t a pre-set path to follow and you don’t have to be one or the other first, but overall that’s how it happens. Even if Millan doesn’t teach manners or tricks classes or care if dogs have the skills to pass the CGC exam he still, through the course of his career, has more than likely learned how to teach the basics. He might not know how to teach tricks, but he does know how to teach sit, down, stay/wait, and walking on a loose leash (they’ve showed him working on those during his show). Just because a trainer has an interest in one area (e.g. behavior mod) doesn’t mean they know next to nothing in another. (Again, if you do behavior mod. you might not know how to teach tricks and if you teach tricks you might now know behavior mod. but for both tricks and behavior mod you, generally, have the foundation to teach some of the basics. You might not, but the basic skills are acquired while you’re working on your specialization).

What letters are you talking about? PhD in Animal Behavior? Yeah, to me that means something so does CPDT or APDT. There are good and even great trainers who don’t have “letters after their names� and vise-versa people with letters that are horrible- letters don’t mean everything. I have dog training “letters� after my name, but it’s up to my clients and more importantly their dogs to decide which category I’m in, former or latter. Some do and they help distinguish things same as a normal joe-schmoe on the street doing your taxes versus a CPA others are just useless acronyms. I cannot speak for everyone, but Millan’s ‘lack of letters’ is not what people have against him, it’s his techniques. Some people are all about force or traditional based training, others prefer scientifically proven methods, and happy humane treatment to animals. To each their own. As I’ve said before, you can learn some good stuff from Millan and he has done some good in the dog world. While watching Millan you should also keep in mind there are different approaches to training and with his approach there can be severe negative effects for some (not all, but some) dogs.

This thread isn’t about Millan we can start a new one if need be to discuss him. This is about different resources for being a dog trainer. Watching Millan is one and so are the others. I’d recommend that whoever is interested in learning more about dog training do the basic research first to see which training philosophies they like. If you like Millan fine go with him and find similar trainers to learn from (possible the Monks of New Skete, although some of their methods are not quite as harsh). If you like the more non-traditional, positive reinforcement approach then go with people more like Tamar Gellar and some of the other trainers offered in other posts.

disclaimer- i could be completely wrong on all of this and everyone is welcome to their own opinion on which is the correct way to train and there is no right or wrong- until an animal is mistreated, abused, or hurt.

" We had taken a small Cocker Spaniel to be trained by Tamar Gellar. She alleges that she is compassionate and trains in a non aggressive way. Our dog was beaten badly on the second day of training and suffered sever damages. She was taken to a vet who said she had been beaten into submission from the forensic analysis of her back legs and neck. Tamar was the trainer and she should be shut down. "

David
Glendale, California
U.S.A.

Is this the Tamar Gellar you were referring to mere.? You see, anyone can be accused of things that the public-eye is not witness to.

This is the Tamar Geller on Oprah that was referred to. Tamar's own web site found here.

BTW, I did a google search on what you posted about Tamar. I found only one single reference in google on a web page called RipOff Report where anyone can post. It was a short post by a person calling himself "David", no reference, no substantiation or documentation, no real info like when or where the incident allegedly occurred. Most importantly, found no other reference to Geller abusing a cocker spaniel or any other animal in any other web site. With someone as famous as Geller it is inconceivable that something like this wouldn't be picked up by the media and investigated. If I felt like it, I could post some similar comment about Cesar Millan or even you on that web site, but it wouldn't prove anything except that I know how to type. Have you got anything else to show about Geller or was that your best shot?

Meanwhile, at the 32nd Annual WSAVA Congress held recently Aug 19-23 in Sydney, Australia there was an interesting presentation called "Dispelling the Dominance Myth". I'd like to think that the World Small Animal Veterinary Association would know a little bit about the subject and not allow the presentation of bunk. But I'll let you read the info and decide for yourself.

Yes, I’m well aware, thank you. That is the first report I’ve seen. I am surprised and it saddens me to hear that. If you care that much to go finding dirt on trainers (Gellar or Millan) try to educate yourself on canine learning and psychology and then use the philosophies you agree with. That is what I’ve been saying all along. I said I do not like Millan, but he’s done some good. I’ve also said I prefer some methods of training while you may prefer others. To each their own. I have not heard any horrendous stories (until now) about Gellar. She was one of the first to open a cage-less dog day care in southern California. That may not seem like much, but the theory around those generally (Notice generally not always. Many things in the dog world are rarely concrete) goes along with positive reinforcement. Again, I do not know how many times I have to say it- educate yourself first and then side with a training philosophy (and if you feel the need a trainer), do not side with a trainer just because you’ve gotten results or they have a big tv show and book deal. Many training philosophies get results, that doesn’t mean you have to like them all.

Some people find prong or chock collars bad while others find clapping your hands in the dogs face or stomping your foot next to the dog to startle them out of being reactive to be bad. Some people follow the scientifically proven learning theories that dogs learn best if they initiate a behavior themselves and then you use operant conditioning, positive reinforcement, or possibly positive punishment. Others believe that generations of experience show that forcing a dog into a behavior and possibly using aversives, negative reinforcement, or negative punishment are better. Other people believe in a mix and yet others believe dogs shouldn’t be trained and they should do whatever they want.

No trainer has 100% answers. I know the trainers I like. I mentioned them in my second post on this thread (#17 on this thread). You’re welcome to like who you like. I just ask that the OP educate him/herself on the different theories and philosophies out there and decide which best suits their beliefs and morals and the type dogs/people they want to work with. (I should stress the people they want to work with. The dogs are easy, it’s often the owners that are difficult. The owners are the ones you need to train so that they can train their dog.)

Perhaps later i'll add to the dominance myth theory that Bipa mentioned. It's a tricky line because so many people have become accustomed to hearing dominance and alpha dog because some trainers over use it. It does not really exist (yet it vaguely does-again depends on how you look at it and who you talk to), but there is a need for leadership- or Benevolent leader as Patricia McConnell (Yay! sooo excited i'm missing agility, but i get to see her tomorrow!!!) and a few others trainers call it.

I know most view it as a need for leadership and guidance. Between dogs there can be a hierarchy and they sort it out (humping, paws on another's shoulders, etc.) with dogs the hierarchy often changes and fluctuates and it's not the main thing they're after in life. As pack animals they work together to survive and respect each other more than the dominance theory suggests. Again, it can be a bit challenging to explain how it doesn't really exist or if it does it's different than mainstream thought thinks it is.

I read the ripoff report and did some investigating, and it's completely untrue. Tamar has never had charges filed against her by anyone. I asked the poster to send me the charge report, and he couldn't. I went directly to Tamar, and she said that not only has no one ever filed charges against her, she's never even trained a dog in Glendale (that's where the guy said he was). However, she does have some ex-employees in that area. I leave you to draw your own coclusions.

Btw, Tamar is the ONLY trainer ever to be endorsed by the Humane Society of the US.