Offensive Italians at the Oktoberfest

The buddy system is the best advice.

Thats one thing about the Fest that blows my mind every year..

How many kids, guys but especially girls are left, passed out, in the alley ways by the loo's, hell anywhere! Alone!

It's like they need Pre-Oktoberfest training.

Get a mean looking guy at the gates before they can go in with a bullhorn:

OK FOLKS: WHAT YOU NEED IS MARINE-LIKE MENTALITY! NO ONE GETS LEFT BEHIND!!

I know thats what we were (are)like, just going to a club , never mind something as massive as this. You never leave a girlfriend like that..

Gives me the creeps.

Now it's like drop the dead weight so we can keep moving on.

I would actually go as far as having a zero tollerance policy for all italians. Time and time again, this year not any different, the weisn is horded by loads of italians and in most cases the result is always the same. Pretend to be drunk, fall over on some unsuspecting girl nearby, followed by screaming insults and allot of bad taste in the mouth for all who are there tring to have a nice time.
I say start enforcing some sort of ban on italian groups, or put them in their own area where they cant offend or harrass anyone. If they want to drink fine, but then there shouldnt be a problem if they do so alone right? Without risk of harrassing the general population. As time goes by, and by italians standards that would alllot of time, they will learn how behave like almost civilized people. The line must be drawn somewhere.
Just a suggestion.
Oh and just a reminder, this weekend is the italian week-end at the fest, so be carefull people.

Try substituting "Jews/Blacks/Homosexuals" in the above rant and see how you feel afterwards.

Wilkommen in Deutschland.

We had a great time with the Italians at our next-door table last Sunday, Gramps even tried to engage me as their private tour guide because they wanted to see the city as well. No groping, just lots of salute! and dancing on the bench.

Ughhhh...why did you give these people a reason to react?
They have nothing better to do mate

To all the others:
Please...there are smarter people who are dealing with the "issue".
Take a deep breath...for once... and chillout.

Also please don't forget the Pizza, Mario, Chianti etc etc...tonight I'm playing Mario while eating pizza and drinking Chianti for example...so don't hate

*waits for pitchforks thrown by angry TT addicts' mob*

--------
P

Right, so it must have been racism too when it was decided to ban ALL British Clubs from matches for 5 years after the Liverpool massacre? Do we need a really bad thing to happen before provisions are taken and people wake up?

I notice that you are from South Africa, giving your words, perhaps, even more (or less) of an impact. You might want to check out the thread re "gays at the Oktoberfest", lots of good stuff there about tolerance and such.

I don't even know you!

Of coarse being from South Africa I must be a pro apartheid racist radical. Right whos generalising now?

LOL; it sucks to be pre-judged, doesn´t it.

The irony of the whole thing is that I go to the Wies´n every day with the exception of the middle weekend. I got stuck in the middle of little Italy two years ago and, while I did not get groped, was subjected to endless singing of the Italian national anthem.

Perhaps camera's all around and a prosecution for sexual harasment or two might be more appropriate, regardless of the nationality.

I think that some high profile cases of people getting banged up for sexual assault or attempted rape would probably focus people's minds on the issue?

Hey guys you are out of sense ...
comparing hooligan's behaviour with what italians are doing at the Wiesn? We have to wait
till something really bad will happen? U mean something like in an usual english pub on friday??
...well ... I have no more words to reply!
Thank's god there are also a lot of people that can still use their brain!.
Thanks Ratben and Sarabyrd ...
And I am not excusing italians or whatever, as i said before i feel sometimes embarassed for their behaviour...
Can someone proof (with a decent statistic) that italian are the most prone to try/succeed to rape
girls at the Wiesn? It's then making stupid comments or trying to kiss someone or whatever considered a serious crime ... don't think so,
it's really annoying for a girl, but given also the spirit of the wiesn it's not soooooo out of the common sense ...
actually last weekend i met a lot of groups of italians, spent some time with them and they were ALL behaving
really nicely and having fun ... Just had some troubles with other nationalities, but i won't generalize ...

cheers,

and enjoy the wiesn ...

a dangerous (half) italian !

Unless there are actual crime figures showing that the majority of incidents are perpetrated by Italian nationals, then like all generalisations this is a load of BS. I've never experienced anything of the sort and really believe nationality has no bearing.

I'm with hams and others. Boorish behavior isn't limited to any one nationality.

However, it does seem to be limited to one gender. I wonder if anyone would be in favor of one of the smaller tents going "ladies only" for, say, Thursday nights? Would you go, ladies?

Sorry, gotta say, had some good times with Italians, but they just CANT stop the old flirty-flirty... it gets really tiring, after a while, and if you tell them to shove off because it is your girlfriend they are trying to touchy feely, then its fighty fighty time. Just imagine, you head in a group to a big party in Milan and start groping some Italian's bird. Certainly not acceptable behaviour in that scenario.

I think they see the whole place as a candy store, and the shopkeeper has locked them in for the night...

I've met lots of Italians who are top quality blokes, but the majority that I have seen at Oktoberfest are obnoxious little cunts who can't hold their drink and act in an unacceptably boorish manner towards women. I'm basing this on ten consecutive years of Oktoberfest visits. Basically these greasy little shits come up here, have a couple of Maß and get hammered and think they can get away with acting in a manner which ordinarily would have them getting their arses handed to them on a platter. Is it one Italian in isolation, no, there's always a group of them and they are usually out of order. Call it xenophobic, call it racist if you like, I really don't care. I am basing my opinion on the vast majority of Italians that I have observed at Oktoberfest over the last decade. If all Italians were banned from the Wiesn I would not shed a tear. Yes, it would be unfortunate on the many good guys and girls who come here from Italy to have a good time and enjoy themselves, but I would consider that a small price to pay to stop the hordes of fucktards who descend upon Munich every year. They are a problem and something should be done about them.

Sure, there are lots of individuals from other countries who cause trouble, commit crimes and so forth, but I have seen little that I can attribute to an individual nation in the same way as I can to those who come from Italy. Australians probably come second but they are very, very far behind the Italians in terms of the problems they cause. Any women I know going alone to the Wiesn on the middle (Italian) weekend I would advise to be very careful and try to stick to groups from other countries for safety.

The Italian guys at Oktoberfest are a serious problem. This is a fact. Denying it either shows an ignorance of what is actually going on or a simply blinkered view of the way things are. It has been proven time and time again over years. Certainly the 10 years that I've been going to the Wiesn.

Or we could just state ignorance on you part because said person may in fact be italian but you wouldn't know that would you. But yes carry on stereotyping things that have nothing to do with the topic on hand so that you can shout ott pc'ism while talking bollocks.

well,just because I go to the Fest, it doens`t imply that I as a female should have to put up with being grabbed or gropped, just because I am there. Maybe you don`t think its a problem, but to the women who are harrassed, it is.

Heck for 10 years,this wasn`t a problem, I used to live near the grounds, not a problem, now, I am glad I live on the other side of the city.

What are you talking about? It's apparantly common sense that you should expect that sort of treatment as everybody is drunk and it's 'in the spirit'.

It's really not right to just blame Italians but there is a definate problem when people of any origin think that this is acceptable. I wonder if people who behave like this at Oktoberfest do the same when they go home?

It is definitely not just the Italians. I was at a table with 2 Swiss lads trying to take liberties of pulling down our dirndl blusen and trying to look up our skirts on Saturday.

Swiss Italian?

I don't think anyone is suggesting that such behaviour is unique to Italians. What they are saying is that it is noticably more prevalent amongst males from that country.

Just trying to turn the thread into ranting about man-pigs at the fest, Keydeck.

Big groups of drunken males are a problem anywhere and though I appreciate that this thread hasn't degenerated into something as racist as this other one that there is out there on the subject, I still fail to understand what the point of warning people about Italians specifically really is? So what are you going to do if, God forbid, you get groped by a Spaniard or Czech? Panic as there wasn't some public service announcement on Toytown warning you about them too?

You obviously have your own insights/opinion, however, as a woman and one who has never been groped (by an Italian or another nationality) in the four years that I've been attending is unassailable proof in my mind. Sure Italians are 'flirty flirty' but I would suggest to all the males on this forum reacting negatively to Italian men, perhaps you are the ones suffering from a bout of jealousy. And if it is your girlfriend being groped, how about letting her deal with the perpetrator (Carm's example of a right hook surely being an example) instead of going in all feisty and outraged.

As Keydeck has reiterated, there was never any attempt to say that this is a problem purely with Italians but that, as a group, they are implicated more often than anyone else.

I know of no other group that hangs around in gangs by the toilets, forcing the women to run the gauntlet through a mob of groping hands and leering mugs.

If i and many others are wrong then fine, i will hold my hands up and apologise. Let's see how we go after this weekend eh?

I would say, most Mediterranean men behaviour is similiar. Reason Italians are mentioned more is their population is high in Oktober Fest?

Are figures for crimes at the 'fest in anyway available by nationality? I'd be interested to see how the Italians fare... (though I doubt figures like that are available?)

I would suggest in return that to suggest it is jealousy is fucking ridiculous and insulting to the women who have been assaulted by whichever nationality.

Secondly, maybe Carm can deliver a decent right hook, but most of the girls that I know are not in a physical position to handle two or three blokes cornering them and feeling them up. For fuck's sake, I can't even take on three blokes at once.

I wouldn't say it's ridiculous or insulting to the women having been groped, I'm just wondering as to the male outrage against Italian men on this thread. Is it because you all have taken the mantle of knights in shining armour? Somehow I doubt it.

Will let you know how I fare on Monday as to my grope potential after Italian weekend.

As for women standing up for themselves, I'd say actually telling them in loud and no uncertain terms to get their hands off would be enough. And if they're Italian, just say 'I'm a mama' and immediate respect will then follow.

Doubt if you will. I can only speak for myself and I for one care about my friends specifically and in general about women being victims of sexual assault.


You actually mentioned a right hook initially. However, in my experience, girls just telling them to get off doesn't usually work.

Well I applaud you - if only more men could follow your shining example.

Eh, if I'm getting groped by anyone of any nationality I would damn sure want my boyfriend or a male friend to wade in and intervene. Maybe that makes me a damsel in distress to their white knight, but if it keeps an unwanted hand off my breasts then who cares?

Sure which would then probably lead to a fight. Most men would not exacerbate the situation if a woman was telling them where to shove it, but hey, once the boyfriend wades in it's pistols at dawn (testosterone and beer being a lethal mix).

But maybe that's my bias - damsels in distress being so passe.

Now, I´m worried about this coming weekend. I seem to have glossed over last year (?) or mostly I was with protective friends.

hams, I think your basic point is that women should try to take care of themselves and that men shouldn't necessarily step in at the drop of a hat, i.e. 'You lookin at my bird?!'-style. And with that I totally agree. Nothing more annoying than a jealous, overly possessive man.

But in those cases when a women is unable to defend herself for whatever reason, I don't think it's out of order for a guy to step in. Just the way of things, really.

Agree with you completely - but it's for the fellas out there to realise that there are times to step in and other times when they will just make a 'handlable' situation worse.

Or when you need a suitcase dragging up the stairs?

Nope - as an independent woman with adequate arm muscles I also do that myself.

bugger, just edited away the wrong post:

I had said:

I don't believe this is a gender issue, anyone being harassed, regardless of gender who is unable to protect themselves, should be helped by onlookers rather than just left to be harassed.

Agreed. I would come to the aid of any of my friends, regardless of gender if they were getting hassled. I expect the same in return.

Can Italians at Octoberfest be a problem for the ladies? Yes
Are we blowing it out of proportion? Yes

I have had a few hairy encounters with drunken Italians, never to the point that I couldn't handle it myself but it would still be good to know that if I weren't in a position to be able to defend myself someone would step in.

TT Blowing Things Out Of Proportion shocker!

while I'm most definitely against any kind of sexual harassment, could you not make the same argument here that was made on the thread asking why so many homo and heterosexuals were making out all over the place around the Ofest i.e. it shouldnt be a great surprise as it comes with the territory. Admittedly making out and harassing are two totally different kettles of fish in moral and legal terms...


Just being devil's advocate I guess

This may be true if you're dealing with a testosterone fuelled near neanderthal Latin type, and for this reason I'd be tempted to get the tent's security involved. Not because I'm necessarily worried about holding my own if it comes to handbags at dawn, but rather because if it does end in a scuffle security tend to resolve the matter by just chucking everyone involved out so they can sort it out outside. Does anyone have experience of how seriously the tents' security take accusations of, what amounts to, sexual harrassment? I'd hope they'd take it seriously and not just view it as part of the Wiesn experience.

Probably not a very feminist thing for me to say but a certain degree of harassment does come with the territory of attending octoberfest in a dirndl with your tits hanging out, like it or not. But by harassment I don't mean physical, whistles and yelps, yes but groping and spanking does cross a line.

Well here's another not-very-feminist thing to say: how bout those ladies who deem it appropriate to wear sky-high hemlines and reveal boatloads of cleavage? Even the most modest dirndl is quite revealing, and I see lots of girls walking around wearing not much more than an apron and high heels.

Again, not to say that unwanted groping is ever okay, but when going into that sort of alcohol-fuelled environment, a bit of common sense about human nature would go a long way.

True that. How about giving them some electro shock when they try to grope girls? Elektroschock weapon

Agree with ER and GG - was just too PC to write it.