New income threshhold for public health insurance

My partner has just applied for a reduced premium as a one-person -band business. Saving 90 euros as the previous minimum was based on 1800 euros.
But you have to apply for it . They do not volunteer this information. This is a great help for those starting off as self-employed.
Robert Berridge

I have remarked to that in another thread at TT but I am uncertain yet if the new computation base of 1200-plus-x EUR instead of the old 1800-plus-x EUR is only available for new "Ich-AGs" or for all freelancers/selfemployed regardless of how long they work under their status. Koala in Hamburg is very eager too to learn more about this. Therefore: did your partner start his one-person-band recently or some time ago and could now just apply for a change of public insurance computation without change in his occupational status? tks for more info on that,

Cheerio

Nothing to do with Ich-AG. Applies to all self-employed or freelancers with only a small income.

Call your Krankenkasse, they'll send you the forms to fill out. Am 100% sure about this because two friends of mine have just had their premium reduced by almost € 100 as per this new law. Would have to check with them regarding exactly how much you are allowed to make per month (on average) to be eligible.

One drawback: Same as with the Hartz IV benefits, they take the salary of your spouse or live-in partner into account. A wife with a proper salary can ruin your chances there.

@Englishbooksandfoods: In one case the Krankenkasse actually did volunteer the information. But I think they are not obliged to do so.

GReat info, dimmer, tks! I'll pass the word to Hamburg KOALA because she need to get that deduction as well. Bob the editor might need to change the head-line of this thread so, because the threshold for public insurance has not been changed, it is the basic/standard lowest income assumption for the public insurance for freelancers/self-employed... but how to phrase that in a good catch-line, I do not know ;-(

Cheerio

You got the wrong end of the stick there. Or I just don't understand your post.

Private insurance is not based on income at all, your age or previous illnesses/injuries make the premium go up

I was talking about public insurance, obviously. The only kind where the premium goes up with your income.

???

Anyways, new info since I've just talked to my friend on the phone: To get the reduced monthly payments, the threshold is 1225 euros per month. Proof is your yearly Steuerthing.

Dimmer: just where did I mention "private" insurance in my contri above? Can't find anything, thus don't know why you even believe I was talking about private insurance - because I was not and if you read my contributions and my WIKI here in TT you might know that I will certainly not mix up private and public insurance, mate. Maybe there was some smear on your screen?

In order to get the confusion out of this thread:
in the past a freelancer or self-employed resident in Germany got his health insurance computed based on an assumed min. income of EUR 1837,50
AS I have mentioned in some other threads before, this was to be changed with the health reform law down to the EUR 1.225.- Dimmer mentions correctly above. If - as it would appear from DImmers experience - everyone who has an average income of less then EUR 1.225.- per month can now get his public health insurance computed based on this number, he or she will safe the difference of %-rate premium times 612,50 EUR, i.e. a lot of dough.
Strangely enough the premium calculator from IKK DIREKT, for example, gives both choices for voluntary membership, 1.837,50 and 1.225.- but at the latter it is labled "Ich-AG mit Einkommen bis 1.225.-", therefore my question above if everybody can move for a change.

Cheerio

I just checked the "big" WIKI(PEDIA) and found this:
Selbständige Tätigkeit

Während bei Angestellten das Bruttoeinkommen der Maßstab ist, wird bei Selbstständigen zunächst einmal unterstellt, dass ihre Monatseinnahmen die Beitragsbemessungsgrenze übersteigen. Wer der Kasse ein geringeres Einkommen nachweisen kann (bspw. durch Kontoauszüge oder die Einkommenssteuer-Vorauszahlungen), erhält einen angepassten Beitrag:

* Hauptberuflich Selbstständige: Mindesteinnahmen 1.837,50 €
* Existenzgründer, die Existenzgründungszuschuss („Ich-AG“) oder den Gründungszuschuss beziehen: Mindesteinnahmen 1.225 €

According to this, someone who is not an "Existenzgründer" with public subsidies should not be able to get the lower "Mindesteinnahme" as basic for computation regarding his public health insurance premium. Now I am even more confused with regards to what Dimmer reported above because according to him every low-income freelancer/self-employed can move for the change to lower "threshold" of min. income.

At the website of the responsible ministry one can read that:

Für Selbständige, die freiwillig in der GKV versichert sind gilt seit 1. April 2007 ein Mindestbeitrag von monatlich rund 170 Euro (statt vorher 250 Euro), wenn Bedürftigkeit vorliegt. Once again it requires some form of not-normal freelancing/selfemployment, here defined as "Bedürftigkeit" and I have not a f...ing clue what will define if someone is "bedürftig" or not. And now I give up for today...

Cheerio

The day I'd trust Wikipedia for important stuff like this would be a very sad day indeed.

You do sell your services regarding stuff like this, do you? Why not just call it a day and find out more tomorrow from a reliable source? I can accept that you don't take my word for it, but bloody wikipedia?

Dimmer: granted, WIKIPEDIA is not a totally reliable source. Its just that the info there conincides with the information I found at the website of public health insurances and of the responsible federal ministry. And the website of the ministry "Bundesministerium für Soziales" is quite reliable, wouldn't you agree? Besides - I don't quite get your negative, agressive attitude towards me... was it something I said?

And second: I am not doubting your word per se, because the health reform law has so many gaps and loopholes that it appears feasible that what the lawmakers intended to do and what now comes out are two different things. It is just that I as a professional have to make sure that the legal information I have so far and can find at several sources in the internet has been proven wrong by reality before I can forward this information to others who might hold me liable for it. Therefore please do not take my "doubts" personally, I don't doubt your integrity, I doubt German authorities handling this god-forsaken mess called health system.

Cheerio

Bedürftigkeit

Hi Starshallow,

I found this continued discussion - thanks for having me "on your mind". The thing with the Ich-AG isn't new a.f.a.i.k. That clause has always been on my papers and of course never applied to me as I was never unemployed so couldn't get Ich-AG funding. Yet another unfairness - if you've never had to rely on help, you dont get any help, if you'd needed help before, you get more help. Ts!
But still your thing sounds new, and some of the stories seem to confirm that that rule now applies to "all" (???) freelancers - so I guess I'll just ask my KK about it and let youse all know!
But I'm going to be pretty pissed off with the KK (TK) if I've been paying too much since April and they haven't bothered to tell me despite numerous sobbing phonecalls from me! ;-)

Koala

Hello Koala,

did you start your business/freelancing in April then? When I started up I had to fill out a form for the TK to apply for the lowest band (not the Ich-AG band!) otherwise they would have put me in the highest one.

This only applies for the first year anyway, because once you get your first Einkommenssteuerbescheid they want to have it.

After the first year they work out what you should have paid and will ask for more in necessary.

In the following years they just adjust the future payments providing you send them everything on time. My TK office here told me that if you send the Bescheid in late, then they backdate any increase but NOT any decrease!

Hamburg Koala: I'll keep my fingers crossed for you that as Dimmer reported above the new lower health insurance computation will work for you as well. I agree it would only be fair, but unfortunately fairness has no room in this messed-up public health care system of Germany. The more they try to improve, reform or change it, the more bad results come out for any number of people due to the complexity of the system. Just remember that until recently there were around 200-300 thousand people without adequate health insurance coverage for a couple of years due to some unexpected glitches in the Hartz IV reform laws and they needed I think close to three years to get these people (who for reason of lowest incomes could not even evade to for instance international health insurances) back into public health insurances again...

Looking forward to hearing from you about your results. I am out of country now from today until the 25th and will be looking into this matter to quench my curiousity as soon as I am back again.

Cheerio and take care

no no, started fulltime freelancing in Jan of 2005 but was part time before, so I've always had Steuerbescheide for them. But since my divorce they have always calculated according to the 1800 rule (whilst still married, lower income can count as a nebenjob and thus KK be paid according to actual income, but since the divorce, as it is my only income - stiff luck: earn more. That my main job is single parenting and wanting to offer my child a least half a childhood by being there for her in the afternoons and thus deciding to accept a lower income for a while doesn't count). In 2005 I averaged 600,- per month (netto Gewinn, that is) , in 2006 only 450,- per month but STILL I have to pay those 280,- Euros...

I mentioned April because 1) that's when the law changed, 2) I have called at least 3 times since then asking if there's anything I can do, anything I can apply for, any help they can suggest and they have always answered that the law states the 1800 rule and that their hands are tied. If it's true I could have applied for this since April then I have lost over 700,- Euro to their dishonesty.

Anyway, will just throw it at them and see what happens. Haven't had time to ring yet but will post with the results!

cheers
Koala

I have a slightly different situation - my wife works shifts and so I either take my daughter to Kindergarten in the morning or collect her in the afternoon. I also pay the minimum TK premium as a self-employed person.

After doing a bit of research last night online, I called TK this morning to ask them why I didn't get the lower rate from April. The answer was basically "because you didn't ask for it". They told me that I had to declare them my income and apply for the new tarif - I pointed out that they already had my application for the minimum tarif when I signed up last year and that a few weeks ago they had my Einkommenssteuerbescheid.

Apparently this doesn't matter - you still need to apply for the new "Basistarif" - and to get it they take into account a lot more than just the self-employed income, eg. the number of children in your household. In my case, my wife's income will also be taken into account and so I may not be eligible - I need to fill out a form and send a copy of her wage slip - then they will decide.

In your case without the double income I guess they'll look at child support payments and things - if you ring them they'll send you the form - but yes, we may all have been paying too much from April because no-one told us about this possibility and the data on the Tk homepage seems to be from January and doesn't cover this important option.

If you can't get it there are not other options available (which are on the homepage and were in the TK magazine in Q2). eg. "Kombi Beitragsrückzahlung" - ie. they pay you a portion of your money back at the end of the year if you haven't been to a doctor in the current year (there are all sorts of exceptions, eg. preventative visits, and children don't appear to make a difference). Apparently it doesn't cost more, but you have to sign up to TK for 3 years and waiver any special Kündigungsrecht should they put their prices up.

Hi Hamburg-Koala and gtappened: being back from my travel I would love to hear if you both or any of you did actually succeed in getting your premiums down to the lower computation level and what traps and loopholes to be aware of...

Cheerio

Well the TKK sent me the form to fill out and I took it back to them last week with all the documentation. I asked them to check it straight away to make sure that nothing was missing.

Assuming that the approve it, then the new rate is valid from the month following that in which you submitted the application (ie. it should apply to me in October).

If you are on your own it's quite simple - you tick the box to say that they already have your Einkommenssteuerbescheid and then have to fill out how much you have from other sources (eg. interest on savings - even if it is covered by a Freistellungsauftrag).

If you are married then they want to know all sorts of things from your spouse, including a copy of their wage slip.

Then there is a formular how to work out whether you stand a chance (based on income and number of children).

I'll report back when I hear something from them.

Great, tks for the feedback and your detailed in-between information. I guess we really need to see a couple of you guys work through the whole process before we can know for sure if and how it works. I will collect all information and up-date the WIKI then for all to know. Sadly enough it seems that several people will have lost the chance to pay lower since April due to the lack of information from the public insurances... forsooth!

Hamburg-Koala - any news from your side, better luck?

Cheerio

I have a question relating to this


as I am married and keeping under the €400 threshold at the moment.

Is KK ever paid according to actual income for low income freelancers anymore, if so under what circumstances?

The current information from my KK is as follows:

- normally only your income is relevant for the KK (your spouse has their own income and pays their own insurance)
- there is a minimum rate that you have to pay, even if your income is less than the minimum income band used to calculate the KV/PV
- if you earn less than 400EUR/month you can apply to be insured as a family member on your spouse's KK
- if you earn between 400EUR/month and the minimum income band then you can apply for a reduction in your insurance fees but in this case your spouse's income will be taken into account.

The calculation appears to be so complicated that my KK could not tell me if I was eligible because it is not just the partner's wages that are taken into account, but also savings, number of children, and all sorts of other things. The best thing is to fill out the form and let them work it out!

Alle Angaben ohne Gewähr!

I received post today from my KK. They have reduced the amount I have to pay each month by almost 100EUR from October! BUT at the same time have written that I am no longer entitled to Krankengeld.

I shall be contacting them on Monday to find out why and if this is a mistake or part of the deal.

Hi all, sorry, wasn't online 4 ages...

my story: rang the KK and asked for forms using correct terminology, got them sent to me immediately.
Is all as gtappend says except I didn't get a table to match myself against.

Then asked why I hadn't been told of this possiblility despite numerous phonecalls etc. "We can't send thousands of letters" (they would if they wanted more money, wouldn't they). And so on and so forth. And they have "no record" of my calls etc. But when I told the guy that I had also written about this (which is true) he said to send copies and they would "see" if it's possible to reimburse... Well, I wrote them a letter in March saying "if the law should change, please inform me" so I've sent that along with my application and an angry letter and I reckon I've got a pretty solid case.

It really seems to be a "Verschwörung" along the lines of "don't tell them anything they don't know", because, as long as I was just ringing to complain that the-rates-were-too-high and was-there-nothing-I-could-do and that it was a-monthly-struggle-to-meet-the-payments I got virtual shoulder shrugs, but once I used the right words there was not a moments hestitation...

Someone asked about the being married situation. Seems that that may have changed now, from what others have said, but whilst I was still married, my job counted as a"nebenjob" which for some strange reason meant I paid exactly according to my most recent tax report. Apparently, with the divorce my nebenjob became a full time job, even though the hours didn't change and the pay got worse. Apparently, being married, my "main job" was taking care of the kid (this from a woman) and suddenly, now that I'm a single parent, this isn't my main job any more as it's not my main source of income. (As if anyone paid me to do that before! The ex hubby was only earning 400,- a month anyway so it's all just bollocks).

blah blah it's really a bit of a scandal, I find, and if I don't get an ok for reimbursment I'm going to the papers.

will let you know!

The KK called me on Monday to say that it's all a big mistake and that yes, I am entitled to Krankengeld and they're going to send me a new letter confirming this - the amount I have to pay stays at the reduced rate, however.

gtappened and HamburgKoala: tks for keeping us all update here. Once Koala's results are in, I will change the Health Insurance WIKI accordingly. If anyone in the meantime found something there that was either incorrect or not totally clear to the non-insurance-professional reader, please send hints to me and I'll change that as well.

Cheerio and good luck to Koala,

I am happy that my thread has created such joy and happiness and has saved a few people a few euros.
It is our common mistake to think that we will be told of better deals. From September until the next tax return the premium has been cut by 90 €.
It does give an incentive to keep receipts so as to remain under the threshhold and not be caught in the poverty trap. i.e 10 euros too much and 90 euros extra premium.
Robert Berridge

Well, I finally heard back from the TK.
My Antrag has of course been approved from October, but they have refused to back pay, even though I included a copy of a letter I sent them in March which requested they tell me if the laws should change.
I am NOT going to let it go, because I still find it scandalous that a single mum who has constantly made them aware of her finacial situation (which is still way below the new threshold) should not be told of this possibilty.
Their "explanation" for not backpaying is "we have to follow the law" (not mentioning which bit of the law they mean).
Well, I reckon the law is "Kasse can approve a reduced Beitrag AUF ANTRAG" and I reckon a written request and numerous phone calls count as requesting an Antrag, even if I didn't use the right words.
So, wish me luck - Im writing a "Widerspruch", after that "offering" to change Kassen, after that going to the Press and/or ÖRA...

Good luck! The whole KK scheme seems to be based on them being able to back-date things if they want more money and not doing it if it means they owe money back. Hopefully your original letter is sufficient to prove that you did indeed ask them earlier.

you might want to try to bring this to the attention of your local Bundestagsabgeordneter, he might be able to get things moving faster with a letter to the board of the insurance...

Cheerio

All right!

thanks Starshallow.
If my current try doesn't bring results I shall do that!

and thanks 4 your sympathy gtappend!

Yippee!!

success!
Got confirmation from the KK today that they have accepted my claim for a "rückwirkende Einstufung"! Luckily, I had written to them in March asking to be notified in case of change so I am being back paid for having paid too much since the law changed in April. Hooray, what a relief and what a sense of justice!

Wow - congratulations! A rare victory indeed!

My sincerest congrats, persistence pays and I am very happy for you, this must be a nice "cash bonus" for you intime for Christmas, hey?

Your contribution reminds to alter my WIKI soon to this regards...

Cheerio

Yep! And seeing as I just got backpayed for Wohngeld as well after the Behörde took eight (!) months to process my Verlängerungsantrag I'm really "rolling"! It's my birthday too next weekend so both payments are very well timed! (even after paying off all the debts that have accumulated in the meantime there's enough left to relax!)
Thanks for your support Starshallow ( I will remember you one day after I "got rich"), and gtappend too.

so just to be clear on this, do I have this right?:

any freelancer earning below 1225 per month can fill out a form and have their premiums calculated on that amount?
what is the actual amount one would pay? i'm guessing about 190 euros per month?

That appears to be the case. As Hamburg Koala showed with her example, you have to go to your health insurance and ask/fight for it, they will not offer it to you from their side. The actualy premium amount will depend on your choice of public health insurance which offer premium as varied as 12% to 15,x%.
With the IKK DIREKT, according to FINANZTEST the least expensive insurance in most German states, the premium would be around 164.- EUR including long term care (Pflegepflichtversicherung) insurance. The latter can be a bit more expensive if you have no children, though.

Cheerio