Do you feel safe here as an American?

I've been hearing on the news about these people (2 Germans, 1 Turk) who were planning on setting off bombs at the Frankfurt Airport and at the Ramstein Airbase. These people were "seeking American targets", as said on the German news. They were hiding out, and planning their dirty deeds, in a small village in Hessen. As an American civilian, I have to admit I feel a little nervous, or maybe I'm just paranoid. We live in a small neighborhood, and everyone knows I and my son are Americans (my son only half ). I just have to think -- what if those people were living in my neighborhood. Would they have tried to harm me or my family? Have any of you thought about this?

Of course I've thought of it. As much as I thought of the hallway firebomb attacks against turkish families in the early 90s when I lived with a turkish roommate (and the restaurant next door caught fire) or the high murder rates when I lived in DC.

I'm English and I once saw Tony Blair in Guildford high street shaking hands with housewives and kissing babies before an election. Am I as at much risk as an American? Do you think I should leave Germany for good or hide in the cellar for the next few years? Would someone please tell me when its safe to come out?

I'm British, bit of a commie, drink beer and as queer as a three dollar bill.
That's four reasons for the nutters not to like me.
Wetting me knickers here, one of those arrested came from Munich!

IMHO, I feel safer here in Germany than I did visiting Chicago, Singapore, London, Rome or other big city. Terrorists are going to strike somewhere anyday (not just around 9/11) as far as I see it. I have no inclinations to go to a Middle Eastern country, that's for sure. When your time is up, it's up. The only places in Germany I fear are the underground trains and the autobahn. Scary.

I'm not scared. I used to live in a little town in America, which sounds ideal, but isn't. We had plenty of wannabe gangsters, and after my mom's second divorce we lived in a house that was in the two-block area of town that was where most of the murders happened. The police were in the middle of busting the drug dealers next door when we came home from school one day .. SWAT teams in black with huge guns standing around in our yard. A few months before, a guy had been shot dead by his buddy in their front yard.

Stuff happens all the time. You don't know when, you don't know where. There's no point going through life living in fear.

So, do I feel scared living in Munich? Not at all.

Plus, the goal of terrorists is to instill fear in people. You don't want them to reach that goal, do you?

I never worried much about this in the States, although I do feel safer in Munich than I did on the south side of Chicago and in St. Louis.

Quite extraordinary set of responses. Do all Americans live their lives evaluating their likelihood of being murdered in any given location? I have never given it a second thought anywhere in the world, nor have I ever had a conversation about the risk of death with anyone - other than Americans. Thinking about it, when visiting the US over the last 20 years, many conversations start with "Do you guys feel safe / at risk over there.". This has been during IRA, Libya, Gulf crisis etc. I might feel a little unsafe in various urban situations, but never as a result of a "world" situation.

Yes, I believe every single American spends their lives quaking with fear. I went out with an American last night and she couldn't even go to the bathroom unless I held her hand. She was convinced a terrorist (albeit a small one) was hiding in the toilet bowl.

I have to admit that I have slightly changed my attitude towards visiting certain countries. I was in Egypt after 9/11 and had no problem, but with the way things are going, I tend to plan to visit countries in which I am hopefully more welcome than, say, Iraq or Afghanistan. I have a huge list of places I want to visit (i.e. the whole world), so if I leave the Middle East for later, that's okay. Problem is, one colleague I have traveled with in the past ONLY wants to go to strict Moslem countries, so that has put a dent in our traveling together.

There's only one thing to do:

PANIC!!!1!1shiftoneone

Keep buying the papers and reading their fear-mongering headlines! Be scared of your own shadow! Worry over something that has less chance of killing you than beign run over by a green Ford hatchback![adminabuse] Pussy.[/adminabuse]

woof.

Understood Ruthie, but this question related to feeling safe in Germany. Work out the odds and then lets get on with our lives

Baddoggie you are so funny. LMAO.

Foxglove, although I can understand you perhaps feeling a bit vunerable being the only Americans around, I'd take comfort in the fact that being the only ones around, you aren't a very good target. Killing one man and his son doesn't really impact the same way blowing up a military base or an entire shopping centre does.

statistics, this is what matters.
Munich was declared the safest town in germany and, like it or not, there are police everywhere. As a friend of mine said "yeah it's full of police, the police you can see...you are not counting the police you don't see...".

At the end it is a matter of statistics and perception: read the polizei site (http://www.polizei.bayern.de) for one month and you will feel surrounded by murders, rapers, psychos, burglars and boozers (well...).

It's fun trying to spot them though.
Saw a bloke at an open air techno festival thingymajig. Didn't seem to have any mates he knew there or get talking to anybody.
Was drinking a bottle of water, but he wasn't waving his hands in the air like a nutter and for some reason he had an earpiece rather than enjoying the DJ set.

Pastel "Miami Vice" suits and loafers in a rock club is another giveaway.

This is so true. I dont read the local news, so live in a bubble of innocence. I rather like it.

Yes the chances of dying from a terrorist attack are minuscule. I like this guy's take on things - to put things into perspective:


Source: Your chances of dying from a terrorist attack.

Of course getting crushed by a vending machine is not likely to be on the TV news or make front-page headlines.
But if the vending machines ever developed Artificial Intelligence, then you should be head for the hills.

Thank you for giving just about the only answer here that wasn't derisive or sarcastic. I didn't say a word about panicking or feeling too scared to go anywhere. I just asked a simple question, and hoped to get reasonable answers. By the way, I'm a woman, not a man.

Foxglove, sometimes you get a cheeky answer on TT, but based on experience usually.
I'd take more succour from the comments on here than panic mongering from the media.

I read this as the first stages of panic. My apologies.

I don't believe I didn't check the gender first, sorry Foxglove.

As for the sarcastic answers, I'd judge people on the basis of their answers. It was a fair question.

In case you think BD is just going off on one again, here's a quote about road accidents in Germany for 2005:

Unfallstatistik Deutschland im gesamten Jahr 2005 wurden in Deutschland 5361 Verkehrsteilnehmer getötet und 433.443 verletzt.

5361 people killed and 433,443 injured! Just in Germany, that's nearly 15 people killed every day!

My god, were they all killed by green ford hatchbacks!

Batson Creek, I was aware the topic was how we feel in Germany. I was just stating how I feel in the world in general, but I guess that was TMI, my bad.

I have to admit it has crossed my mind that Oktoberfest would be a great target, but it won't stop me from going, and when I am there it won't be on my mind, either.

And I guess my point was that I don't understand how anyone can even give 5 seconds thought to being subject to a terrorist attack in general terms. The "will 9/11 happen to me" type thoughts which I hear a lot when I go to the US. Oktoberfest, as a specific event, is different. The 2001 Oktoberfest had a very different feel to it.

I understand the differences as far as probability are concerned, however green Ford hatchback drivers don't deliberately kill innocent people, terrorists to. The psychology behind fearing being killed in an attack and by a car are understandably different.

My question remains the same. Do people really walk around fearing a terrorist attack. Its not an ggressive question, its just something that 's never crossed my mind.

Well, when you get a question like this thread, then you think about it, just cos someone asked if you think about it.

My brother-in-law is a technician in the Army and has been in Iraq for over three years now. Yes, when stuff happens to Americans over there, it is our (US govt) own fault, but that doesn't keep me from being worried about my big bro and whether he was one of the soldiers killed in those reports that are so common no one listens to them any more. He also happened to be stationed in New York at the time of the WTC bombing and was sent to help with the wreckage.

It's normal for people to fear terrorist attacks more than before, terrorism has changed with the advent of the suicide bomber willing to blow himself up while taking out as many civilians as possible for maximum impact. Gone are the days of hostage taking and negotiating the release of political prisoners. That's very passé

Terrorists deliberately kill innocent people but the chances of it happening to you are tiny.

As for the Wies'n. It did cross my mind today that all that alcohol consumption and lewdness is probably not the cup of tea of the nutters.
Then again, anyone going in with a bag bigger than a fag packet gets it searched and someone sat there in a big thick duffle coat not drinking is going to attract attention.

911 changed terrorsim in that people don't just sit tight and think it will all get negotiated away anymore.
People are much more willing to jump in and have a go I think as they potentially have nothing to lose.

But you could take a van of explosives and plow right down that middle road...

Through the traffic jams Ruthie?

Well, okay, plow slowly...do you think the guards at the entrance could stop the vehicle, even if it drives slowly?

Edit: plus, if the driver smashes a few people on his way in, that won't exactly be a problem for him, now will it?

Sadly, as most of you already know a bomb was planted at the Oktoberfest in 1980:
1980 pipe bomb incidentA pipe bomb was set off in a trash can at the showers at the main entrance on September 26, 1980 at 10:19 PM. The bomb consisted of an empty fire extinguisher filled with 1.39 kilograms of TNT and mortar shells. Thirteen people were killed, over 200 were injured, 68 seriously. This was the worst terrorist attack in the history of Germany. The official inquiries found that a right-wing extremist Gundolf Köhler from Donaueschingen, a social outcast who didn't get away in time and killed himself in the explosion, was the lone perpetrator. However, this account is disputed strongly by various groups.[1]

Doesn't stop people going though. In case you didn't know about this, there is a memorial to the victims at the main entrance to the fest ground.

I am relatively sure that the police and the spooks will be watching what trucks approach the Wies'n.
Our friends in green in Bavaria have LONG experience of watching vehicles over long distances and then pulling them out of the traffic, look at the A8 coming in from Salzburg.
I'm going to the Wies'n, neither a victim of terrorists - or media scaremongers.

Hmmm... What do you mean?

I have gotten a bit nervous from time to time on the U-Bahn, especially after the attacks in Madrid and London. But I don't feel specifically targeted as an American. Generally speaking, I feel safer in Germany than the States. Oklahoma City had a big effect on me, and that wasn't even American-specific targeting, in the sense we are speaking of here.

I was also a little nervous when Ariel Sharon (former PM of Israel, in case you didn't know) visited Munich a few years back thinking he must be a prime target of extreme Muslims. But then I was in the city and stuck in a traffic jam for an hour while they cordoned off the Innerer Ring, and there were Munich Police in SWAT dress with mighty big guns every 20 meters, and then what I can only suspect were their Israeli counterparts in all black with even bigger guns. So I imagine Munich was hardly more safe than at the moment.

I agree that the OP doesn't need to feel overly concerned about being targeted by terrorists, at least not the big dogs. They go for big numbers and statistics.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I cannot remember any incident of Islamist terrorists targeting any specific "normal" individual in an attack in Europe. Most attacks/plans for attacks have been targeted at "mass targets" like transportation. I also remember the assassination of Theo van Gogh, the Dutch filmmaker. But he was a very vocal critic of Islam and therefore - in the eyes of the terrorists - not a "normal" but "high-profile" individual.

Schleierfahndung. They work in teams along the A8, look out for powerful, black usually, German built cars sitting on the hard shoulder.
Inside the car, a couple of mullets with dodgy moustaches and binoculars.

If you drive towards Munich in a car with Romanian plates and one of the passengers looks less than milk white they'll have been watching you since the border.
Probably pull you over between Rosehome and WoodChurches.

I am going to Wembley Stadium on Saturday to watch England v Israel. It has crossed my mind...

...and nary a thought about the hundreds of accidents and dozens of death every year on the M1 and M404 alone, right?

Irrational fears are so neat-o.

woof.

Having moved back to the US relatively recently, I would say that people here are definitely much more nervous in general than Europeans. Travelling Americans can be really nervous. A lot of this is brought about by the news channels, but I think the US government can't be let off the hook, either.

In the year or two after 9/11, I received quite a few direct e-mails from the State Department about suspected threats to Americans in Germany (I had signed up with the US Consulate in Munich to receive notices.) I wish I had retained them, so I could quote them directly, but for awhile they actually advised Americans not to gather in places where you would expect to find other Americans, and to be "vigilant" if you did. So much for a relaxing evening at Kilian's. I got a mail about the Security Conference in 2002, which advised Americans not to go to downtown Munich at all while it was in progress, but if you did, to be sure and have your passport on you.

Anyone else remember these bulletins?

OK, but it's damn if you do, damn if you don't.

Warn people and it's paranoia. Say nothing and it's irresponsible.

Well, yeah, JW, but I think these bulletins only made people who tend to be nervous, more so. It communicates that the government thinks you should be worried, and encourages you to be so.

While people who aren't otherwise concerned are just going to go off and do their thing anyway.

It is a fine line but I think the US State Dept. overdoes it JW.
The knock on effects don't exactly help towards world understanding.

Yep, and the leftie, liberal conspiracy theorising majority on this board will blame the Americans for anything that does or does not happen with regards to terrorist attacks.

As a Brit, I was never worried about terrorist attacks and did not let it affect the way I lived my life, even whilst working in London and we had IRA bombs going off followed by muslim extremist threats, etc etc. Foolhardy to some, stoic to others.

If I were American, I would not feel unsafe anywhere in Germany.

<snip> Ooooooh, you've made my day!
Thanks Canaryman.

Cheeky monkey.

I didn't know you were watching me. I guess I have to shave and say goodbye to the mullet now