Do you feel safe here as an American?

How to win friends and influence people, June style. He'll be wanting to own your bottom next.


OI! It's the centre of the fuckin' Universe, mush.

I would put the odds of that happening at say... 1 in 12M, whereas getting blown up in a tube or bus are fifty-two times higher...

Actually I AM talking about lardy-dah fund management outfits. As it happens the employees there are also British citizens. Or do you only count those with East End accents?

Jules Winnfield:

Thanks, somebody gets it.

@ DanHessen

You misunderstand. A bomb in a bus station isn't a threat to the US. By which I mean US major institutions, culture or way of life. Of course it'd be a tragedy for those affected.

You just demonstrated in that one line how nothing you know about London, mate.

Goodnight. I'll catch up with you on the morn.

Then you'll have to be a bit more specific.

We did survive the blitz. And the IRA. And anything that those from the Middle East can throw at us. Because we deal with these things so well, and piss people off because we forget about them 5 days later, I do think London is special.

Not really. The suggestion was that only the posh, fund management people were scaredy-cats. That's what I was responding to. I know enough Essex lads on the dealing desks.

I may have over-egged it slightly, but you're more likely to be hit by lightning, twice, than be killed by a terrorist attack on US soil. IMO.

I don't think AQ have planned another attack on US soil since 9/11. They knew it was a one-time op and it would be too difficult afterwards. As far as I know all the people who've been caught afterwards were working on their own initiative. Most of them were comically inept, along the lines of the recent 'bomb' attempts in the UK.

I mean, WTF? You trivialized 9/11 because it wasn't like the US economy had collapsed after the attack! I never said that it did, however I am surprised that you are in denial over the attacks' economic impact!?


Honestly, Cog (), this is not a US versus Europe issue as you cannot prove than anyone is more or less scared of an attack. It's talked about in the media a lot more in the US, because the country is more of a target. Again, that's logical to me.


Why? Because the stringent security measures imposed afterwards made them that hard? Well I never! I think we've got ourselves a fan of the Patriot Act who's in denial here?


And some of them were not as comically inept (see Istanbul, Egypt, Madrid, foiled attempts elsewhere, logistical bases in several European countries, etc.).

We are talking about different things. The US govt. and like-minded parts of the media play up the threat from terrorism. It's very clever. They rarely specify what the threat is. This means that people attach their own fears to it. That could be a fund manager worrying about his funds, bus drivers and commuters worrying about bombs, grannies in Hicksville, Idaho worrying about terrorists poisoning their dogs.

To me, a threat to the US would have to be something really major. Post 9/11 was a wobble. A significant one, but the US was in no danger of collapsing.


I haven't seen any polls but people in the US are more scared of terrorism than Europeans. Not surprising, their govt. is feeding them crap and parts of the media are helping. The rest is too afraid to challenge them. Or something. Maybe the US media is too deferential, or non-confrontational. I don't think Paxman would get a job on a major network. But I don't know a great deal about it really.

Not a fan of the Patriot Act: AQ knew security would be tightened up after the attacks so they didn't plan any more. The Patriot Act came later and GWB add his own brand of lunacy to it.

The competent terrorists all have one thing in common: none of them tried anything in the US. So to say the US is more of a target is wrong.

You could always be killed by a bomb in a Vending Machine...

No wonder the Americans are paranoid... :-)

I've been worried walking through certain neighbourhoods and in certain places of possible violence that may come my way but i have never ever been concerned about terrorism.

Isn't that the point? That you can't be frightened of it cos you don't know when it's gonna strike?

where??? not once in my puff have i felt threatened in munich.

oh wait, is this an english thing?

At last! BD nails it. If you are afraid of terrorism, it must haunt you constantly because you don't know when its going to come. I think I'd better go to bed.

Your biggest risk here in Germany is if you live near to any US mil facility, and there are much more of those scattered round than you think - there's a Cold War missile silo few km in the countryside near me.

I wouldnt go anywhere near Grafenwöhr, Vilseck or Hohenfels nowadays though. Not safe.

You are more at risk in Munich from attacks by umbrella wielding grannies on the U Bahn if you sit in any seat with a black cross above yer head than any Islamic nutter.

for the record, as an American I feel/felt less safe inside the US than in Germany.

of course the fear isn't about terrorists. The odds of death by terrorist are like those for getting hit by lightning on the day you win the lottery. What makes me uneasy are:
- gang bangers / wanna be gang bangers
- wackos / coke heads / overly stressed people / hicks with guns
- suburban soccer moms in huge SUVs
- cops wearing bulllet-proof vests (of course I highly respect them at the same time)
- chinese-made toys
- religious zealots
- gay Republican Senators in public restrooms

shit, i'm more likely to get run over while crossing the street than anything else (since being back, i've learned that this has happened to a couple people i knew). I tell ya, assholes in cars are more deadly than bin laden could ever hope to be...

(don't get me wrong, though, it's good to be home )

Addressing the topic as a someone who is not from the US...

I don't believe that you have reason to be disproportionally scared for your safety. But as always, these are only opinions, and the only one's that count are those that you choose to integrate.

It needs to be said however...

There has been no conclusive evidence that AQ and OBL are responsible for either 9-11 or 7-7... They produced some blurred video of a guy who's facial features remotely resembled OBL.

They were carrying out simulated terrorist attacks and contingency planning at the exact same tube stations on the same day of the actual bombings of 7-7 (Peter Power, Managing Director of Visor Consultants, whose contract it was to execute these drills and simulations, stated this fact 3 times - the first statement was unambiguous as to timing and locations, gradually as his statements to the press developed, they became more ambiguous and less specific)... I would say that is a little more than slightly coincidental.

This is not conspiracy theory, the above 2 statements are facts...

The terrorism threat was minimal before the coalition of liars took it upon themselves to invade 2 countries relatively unrelated to the supposed "hijackers"...

[awaits onslaught of insults and belittling for holding a different opinion]...

It doesn't really matter where you're from or where you go, there is always someone willing to kill you in one way or another. It always has been that way and always will be. So why worry, accept it as being a part of life and get on with things.

Don't want to get involved in the rest of your blah, but it is true that there was a huge police operation going on 3 hours before the 7/7 attacks that was reported on the BBC web site and then gradually withdrawn as the bombs went off.

You will find that it was not a police operation...

It was an operation subcontracted to a firm called Visor Consultants, in which the operation was the simulation of terrorist bombing attacks and therefore response procedures, on the exact same Tube stations at the same time as the actual 7/7 bombing occurred.

Anyway, this is a little off topic for this thread so I'll leave it there.

Exactly BC. I think it fair to say that when they're running a training exercise of a terrorist attack the chances of you being killed in a terrorist attack go up from practically zero to astronomically.

Proposal: For the safety and well being of all other persons in the world, all American persons should be returned to their country. Then, they can feel safe, as the threat to them will be well contained and controlled by their dictatorial government. And it will lead to less people whining about "Bloody Yanks" in all the other countries. Oh, and by all americans, I do Mean all, including the military who are scattered all over the globe on "Peace Keeping" missions. Yeah, that is a dead good solution. :-)

Blah, blah, blah... What a bunch of rubbish. You got any REAL FACTS, reports, polls, etc? Another example of Wheel continuing to banter...


Ever hear of the the UK Equivalent?


Wrong. Al Qaeda planned N.Y. subway attack - Sunday, June 18, 2006


Later?
Patriot Act - October 26, 2001 - 45 days later!
Anti-terrorism, Crime and Security Act 2001 - 13 December 2001 - 93 days later.


No of course not, not Blair... TheMoth is right, you are a hypocrite.

Basically what you are saying is that American responses are out of proportion with the REAL threat, not perceived. European responses are (however nuanced) balanced and in proportion with the threat. That Euros approach the same problems with a greater sense of sophistication, etc, etc.

Bullshit considering the UK has implemented the same, if not even more strict laws since 911. And invaded both Afghanistan and Iraq as well.

First remove the beam from your own eye...

This is a piece of German gem! Americans should be "returned" to their country, like you return some goods you bought at a store. WTF is "by all americans" ? This piece of dogdy gem should be posted on that dogdy gem thread.

you get marked down on toughness points if you actually go on about how tough you are heroic Londoners (especially when tucked up in Munich)

Lifeisabuffet - Why is this a "German Gem" . .? Sorry, you are not clear . .

Oh Werfetter, how cute. Could not agree more, but really . .do you need to provoke the slavering mob even more . .? Just leave them be . .like Kids, they will shut up and move away eventually. .

I based my comments on anecdotal evidence. Jules corroborated me when he said that the US media concentrates on terrorism stories more than the European media - the media both leads and reflects public opinion, so if there are more stories in the media it's likely there is more concern amongst the US pop. I imagine there are polls but haven't time to research today. The 'I don't know a great deal about it' was about the US media - I find US papers impossible to read so have never really got a handle on them.


What's that got to do with US fear of terrorism? Nothing. Typical sand in the eyes tactic from Bumpy.


From the article you linked to: "Sen. Charles Schumer, D-New York, said authorities took the plot seriously but were never able to confirm its existence."


Jules called me a fan of the Patriot Act. I said no, AQ were not deterred from planning because of it, they knew there would be some sort of crackdown and therefore didn't plan anything. Had there been no response at all AQ might have tried again. But the PA was not the only possible way of reducing the threat.


What is this intended to prove? More sand in the eyes.


I'm not saying that at all. If I thought it, I would have said so. As it happens I think the characterisation of the Americans as naive and Europeans as sophisticated is simple-minded rubbish, although you are doing your bit to prove the stereotype.


Why do you persist in imagining that I am attacking the US? I have done before and will do again, but that was not an attack. You have a one-track mind. Grow up FFS.

Speaking of the Patriot Act: US terror law 'unconstitutional'.

The thread has deviated a bit...but here is my 2 cents- I feel very safe living in Munich...but even when I lived in northern VA/DC about a half mile away from the Pentagon, I didn't feel unsafe persay.

The most scared I have ever been was in taxis in Jamaica. (no Islamic fundamentalists involved though, just corrupt drivers licenses procedures)

And they were off their tits on skunk too?

Dodgy English

Lifeisabuffet - you are really showing your American ignorance. I am a native English speaker. Perhaps you know the language where something that is not black and white is called COLOUR; Where metals like ALUMINIUM are pronuonced correctly etcetcetc . .and as for the "Dodgy English" link, I am even more convinced that Americans are all cretins. Why do you travel to a foreign country and spend your time bemoaning that you do not like it and then have a forum for criticizing people who endeavour to integrate you by speaking your language. Furthermore, it should not belong to that category of "Dodgy English" as using the phrase "by all Americans, I mean . ." it is a perfectly acceptable sentence construction. It is pitiful that your species continues to feel the planet owes you a living.

Oh, look, another sad non-American lamenting his ill fortune for not being born in the one country on earth whose natives are superior to all others.

Toytown Germany
Full of Americans who are better than you are

ps to werfetter: the Dodgy English topic was in fact started by a British person, not an American.

One of our guys screw your sister or something?

Pot - kettle?

Hello. Back again? Just going to shit myself and sell my house. Back later.

I wsn't aware that American was a species. Perhaps you should invest in a dictionary, 'native speaker'. And perhaps you should be less of an arrogant twat?

Arent we all a little harsh on someone who is entiled to air his views in such a forum . .? As an Citizen of USA myself, we should be leading by example and showing the restraint that we so often preach, by easing up on the little people, and not being quite so harsh. It only exacerbates the issue and paints us to be worse than we really are ...And we CAN be quite bad, lets face it. So please, less name calling . .

Oh, and still @ lifeisabuffet ...when you choose to submit my post to the "German Gem" file, please enter your above post too . . Referring to my earlier note wherein I questioned your English, it is fairly self-evident that you really do indeed need some form of rudimentary education in the subject. I illustrate this with your example of mis-spelling "dodgy" TWICE in succession. Excellent!!!
And Apologies if you are not an American, but the issue on education stands...

How did this turn into a bash a US citizen thread?

TT needs indiscriminate Ami-bashing as little as it needs some Americans playing the permenant bloody victims.

Well said. The (US)goverment and media create a big hype about a potential attack but never specify on the threat. A few weeks later nothing has happend and people are still in fear on the imminent attack and shit themselfs. A couple of more weeks later there is a new warning about a potential attack... and nothing happens again. This occurs about every 3 months. It is called fearmongering...
It keeps the sheep affraid and makes it easier for the goverment to pass new laws and (travel)regualtions to monitor them.

Yeah, next thing they'll want is a safe corrider to Alaska and, well, you know the rest is history...

I agree with your point taxidriver.

What's funny is that I actually feel more safe in Germany than I ever did in the US. In part because my real name is very unique and "not your typical white bread American" name. This means that despite being Caucasian, I get looked at a lot more closely by the police, airport security and so on.

My personal experience is that I feel less safe because I'm the one being harassed (when there's no reason to IMO) because of name/racial profiling under the patriot act (they say it doesn't happen - yeah right) when it is others that maybe should be under more tight review because of their history and/or actions.

Why do I feel more safe here? I figure that in Germany, more people are on the lookout for government crackdowns and perhaps paranoid about the possible re-rise of facism and socialism... They have seen it in action, and many have lived through it - and bear the scars.

It is in the US, that the population can't see what's happening in front of their eyes - and for those of us who do and cry foul we are "unpatriotic" and "anti-american".

Richard Jackson had it right in the 1700's when he wrote "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. ".

Only time will tell who is right - terrorists or no. (Remember - governments can be terrorists too...)

Who is Richard Jackson? I'm pretty sure Benjamin Franklin wrote those words. You're doing a great job of helping out the 'Americans are ignorant and uneducated' argument, I'm afraid.

Didn't Franklin also say that patriotism was the last refuge of a scoundrel?

Sorry, but check your sources:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Those_who_wou...sential_Liberty

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_misquotations

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Benjamin_Franklin -


It wasn't Ben Franklin. It's often misquoted as being from him, but was in fact Richard Jackson.

Whoa! Two Georgia peaches going toe to toe. This is better thann cable!