I think I had a nerve severed during surgery

I seem to have questions that don't fit under the headings already listed. Okay, here I go: I had an operation on the side of my neck to remove a tumour surrounding a lymph node in mid 2004. The area around is still numb. Probably the surgeon cut off a nerve - can't say. I was too dazed (drugged) to ask then. Was hoping the numbness would go in time but hasn't. Should I take it up with the hospital concerned ? Any precedents ? Since the health insurance paid, can I claim compensation ? How do I prove that they (the surgeons) were the cause of it ?

I'd suggest to go to your GP and ask him to take a look, to check what is really wrong first. Then ask him to issue a medical certificate with the problem if it fits in with your theory. Then ask a lawyer.

Yes - or another doctor. You have a medical problem, haven't even asked a professional about it and already want to sue?

Dont expect the size of payments of compensation in germany to be anything like in the USA.

A numb area on your neck - that´s probably 500€ and a pat on the back.

@Tiggi : Of course I have asked the professionals but they are being too honest when they say they don't know. Ultrasounds, X-rays haven't revealed much. Besides, my original case was too complicated. Doctors couldn't diagnose it until after the surgery as it was a very rare condition. And it's not about wanting to sue. It's about 'can I sue?'

Ah! Sorry, your original post sounded as though you hadn't asked anyone yet. That makes more sense! Guess you need to consult a lawyer then.

Yes it is! You would not have asked the question otherwise. So, you just want confirmation that sueing is an option before getting the ball rolling then? It will not quite be the multi-million dollar deal you think it will be though. Sorry to burst that little bubble of yours.
Sod the fact that, from your description, life-saving surgery was performed. Let's look into any possible malpractice and get money out of them.

"Too honest" for the answers you want to hear?
If you have asked professional opinionS and they don't know whether you have a case, what makes you think a court will find in your favour?
A court may also take the view that a small numb area is a small price to pay for cancer surgery.

Ask another opinion if you want to, but I'd say get on with the rest of your life.

@Crawlie: That sounds like a rabble rousing post! Rather presumptious, I would say. Neither am I American nor British nor German and so have no understanding of what 'suing' actually involves. I am sort of curious to know if this works in Germany at all since the laws are pretty much different here which I am sure you would know if you lived in Germany or if you are reading other threads. I remember seeing a documentary on German TV about a TV moderator who had lost her voice due to a misguided procedure at the hospital and all that she did was run from pillar to post without having received any compensation anywhere. I am due for a back surgery again and would like to be armed with some knowledge should something go wrong.

@Monkstown: It wasn't cancer! It was a severe infection of a lymph node but I didn't want to go into details . For the rest, see my reply to Crawlie. And thanks for your advice.

Sorry for me being a layman:


The question remains.
If the health professionals so far can't say it was a fault of the surgeon, who says you will find one that will.
And I'd say it would be VERY likely that a doctor you sued would bring out a defence.

On balance you have to ask yourself if:
1. Can you prove it?
2. Is it a price worth paying?

As Crawlie pointed out there is NOT the multi million compensation and victim culture that there is elsewhere in the world.

@ Sweetypie... unfortunately I Do have experience with this sort of thing.
In March of 2004 my left leg had to be removed. The Dr. who performed the "Umstellungsosteotomie" on my knee
severed the main artery. It wasn't recognized until after it was too late..after 4 weeks of agony and right when I was getting ready to meet my maker, I was transfered to the Uni-klinik and my life was saved.
Before operations there is always a form to sign about the possible dangers. Did you sign after being warned of the possibility of the problems which you are experiencing now?
After 3 1/2 years of life as a uni-ped I am looking at at least 4 more years of legal battle until a pittance will be paid.
My advice is to forget getting any restitution for the past injury, but for your next operation just be sure that it is a hospital which has truly everything you need.

Hello Pumpkin

Was shocked to read your story. It must be so traumatising for you. Thank you for sharing . I appreciate that very much.

I suppose everybody has to sign a form before undergoing an operation but does that give the medical professionals total immunity to consequences such as the one you are faced with? Shouldn't there be a campaign for some rights that patients ought to have, esp. where loss of limb or other faculty is concerned or is one expected to get disability cover/insurance beforehand? My concern was not over 'blaming' or 'accusing' a surgeon but was concerned with the rights a patient ought to have. Perhaps I should have said this in my first post for some posters thought I just want to 'make a million' and 'set the ball rolling' without fully understanding the issues at hand.

Btw, I had a surgery for one slipped disc (have 3) in March 2007 and this time the Orthopaedic (Fachartz) clearly mentioned that the surgery could worsen things for me. Luckily, it didn't but it could have.

Will send you a PM in due course.

But why? I had an ankle operation and I also have some numbness around the old would but that is to be expected. When surgery takes place a host of smaller nerves are severed in the surgical process and not all regain their full function.

What has the US brought Europe? A boy named Sue

docs in germany protect one another, no doc/dentist wants to create problems for another for fear of being ostracized. There is no ethics board here.

A friend of mine had a tumour removed somewhere behind the ear (don't recall exactly where), around some gland.
The surgeon had informed her that there is a certain risk that the facial nerves / muscles will be affected, like the eye-twitching reflex might not function or even a partial paralyse of her face might occur (short term or long term). I am sure she had to sign that she was informed about those potential risks. You can always ask a lawyer, but I think the numbness will be considered normal risk.

Think that sort of sum it up. Dude comes to this country , has several major surgeries paid for by insurance/etc and now wants to see if he can squeeze anything more.

Your Question #1) Can I sue?

Probably not, this is Germany. No German doctor serves as expert witness against another. It's just not done here like in the US. Either good or bad...

My Question #1) Did your doctor have you sign indemnity forms clearly stating the risks and potential side effects resulting from said procudure? If yes, your question #1 is probably a "no."

Just out of interest - what would you need the money received from legal action for? I understand if someone loses income or can't do something then compensation for loss of earnings would seem reasonable but in this case I don't see exactly what any money received would cover

@Bumpy: Well, you seem to have actually understood and answered my question. Thanks.

The operation in 2004 was an emergency operation and that too on a Good Friday when the hospital was understaffed. I was kept waiting on drips for 24 hours before being operated in the middle of the night. As I mentioned, since the case was complicated and doctors couldn't diagnose it, I was not orally informed about possible outcomes though I am sure it's all mentioned in the form that I must have signed in a state of tension and despair. However, when I was operatdd in 2007, , the doctors took great pains to explain the procedure and possible side effects to me, with pictures and models. So, in the second instance, I was 'prepared' for the consequences but not in the first.

@Parnell: You are brilliant !

If they couldnt perform the operation because of worries about possible complications and exposure to malpractice suits and you had died then think of the loss you'd have been to TT... good show... where are you from just out of interest?

@boomtown_rat: Exactly! One of the reasons why I have done nothing about it nor am going to. No, I don't need the money. However, my husband fought a long legal battle on behalf of his mother who lay in a coma for 6 years as a result of a medical procedure. I put up my question to start a discussion about suing in connection with rights of patients which I admit, I failed to mention in my initial post. And I am glad Pumpkin responded. So in Pumpkin's case, what are her rights and entitlements. Does one already suffering be made to suffer more through a protracted legal battle ?

if the professionals don't know then who will??
you could contact your health insurance company and the hospital involved. am sure they can give you accurate information re. possibilities of suing?

The way I see it is that you are more concerned about the upcoming operation than the previous one and whether you have any protection should some thing go wrong. I completely understand that, I have been in a similar position and was seriously considering having the surgery in Canada where there is some accountability (you can't sue for millions like in the US because Canada doesn't do punitive damages but there is still adequate compensation). It is my understanding that if something goes wrong here, it's your tough luck even if the doctor was grossly negligent.

Fortunately for me it turned out that the reason I was being sent into surgery didn't exist at all and my doctor had completely misdiagnosed me. Luckily the mistake was caught before any actual surgery took place (never mind the months of terror I went through thinking something was terribly wrong). As you can see, I don't have much faith in the medical system here.

This may sound harsh, but it seems to me that you should be counting your blessings instead of seeking compensation.

You had a tumour - benign, by the sound of it (in one of your posts you say "it wasn't cancer"), but a tumour nonetheless, necessitating emergency surgery. If the condition was impossible to diagnose without surgery, as you say, and your case was an emergency, it's fair to assume that the operation pretty much saved your life, no?

Three years on, "the area around is still numb." Is the numbness on one side of your neck impairing any vital functions? Presumably not, if you can breathe and eat without assistance. Is it debilitating in any other way - does it prevent you from moving your head from side to side, for example, making it impossible for you to drive a car? Apparently not, at least judging from your initial post, because NOTHING in it indicates that the numbness affects your quality of life IN ANY WAY.

As I said, I think you should be happy that you're still alive and in one piece.

You seem to be saying you signed the form for the surgery.
Sure, there was tension and despair as you signed, you were very sick.

If you had emergency surgery on a Good Friday, it must have been a life saving operation?
And now you want to sue over a small numb area that doesn't apparently effect the quality of your life.

1. You more than likely accepted as a risk of this surgery.
2. No medical professional has so far or is likley to say is the fault of the surgery.

You need closure, you won't find it this way.
What you will find is a LOT of pointless stress and costs.

@ Sweetypie
Really hate to seem swimming in a pitypuddle..that is absolutely Not the kind of person I am.
When a leg is cut off, the entire body has to realign itself to compensate for lost stability etc.
I can tell a very long and unbelievable tale (only it is NOT a tale) about the battle I fought from day one to
even get the necessary things which are guaranteed through the Gesetzliche Versicherungen.
Wer sich nicht wehrt, lebt verkehrt!
Would just like to emphasize again for all you listeners out there...don't go to small private hospitals in Germany...even if if
a Professor is wielding the knife or saw as in my case. You might lose your Job, the possibilty of staying in your beloved surroundings (3rd)floor,
your independance and worst of all your health.

@ Pumpkin : In my first post, I had asked if there were precedents where compensation was actually paid (that I could read up in English). I guess I have to check out publications from the Verein fuer Medizinerecht. There should be a compilation of court cases and verdicts somewhere.

@ER: I agree. I marvel at many things that run smoothly in Germany but I am afraid I am not really happy about the way doctors treat their patients though I am getting used to it. Just imagine if you had been operated unnecessarily.

Well, there are precedents for compensation, but I wouldn't bother; they're laughable.

Man loses top of his head in brain operation

My mom had a surgery like this a year ago (or two?), it was a (good) tumor right under her ear which she had had for years. It was hard for her to find a surgeon to do the operation for the reason you mentioned, the risk that a nerve could be damaged. Since this was no emergency or whatever prodecure but well-prepared, my mom picked the surgeon, and everything went fine with the surgery, but she knew about the possibility of nerve damage. I am sure she had to sign some kind of waiver as well.

So, you contact the hospital and they say "Yes, please sue us!"

The situation can probably be summed up:

1) Of course you CAN sue.

2) Before doing so it is wise to assess you chances of success. The general opinion seems to be that the chance is low. If you fail you will be left with the bill.

For a valid opinion consult a lawyer - which will probably not come for free...

If anyone needs a lawyer in Munich, I can recommend Wolfgang Putz.
He seemed to be the most honest and competent lawyer who I consulted after the
"mishap" with my leg. All in all, I had 5 consultations with different lawyers, which meant each had to be paid a fee...Duh!
Mr. Putz is also well-known through different cases involving "Patientenverfügung" or living wills.
Like I say, he is honest and will tell you what he really thinks and what your chances are.

Why the fuck would you want to sue? Operations have risks or are you too stupid to understand that? You had flesh and tissue removed in order to have a tumor removed and that may or may not have included nerve tissue. Deal with the fact that people did what they could to make you healthy and be glad that you are healthy and without a tumor on your neck. The nerve of some people!

Take my case, for example, Gynocologist found a "tumour" on my ovary, sent me in to have the ovary removed thus potentially leaving me infertile. I go into the klinik for a pre screening before my operation and the specialist tells me there's nothing there, you have nothing wrong with you. Had he been as incompetent as my gynocologist, I would be minus one ovary and potentially unable to have children.

What recourse would I have had, had I been deprived of my ability to procreate (which to me is about the most important thing I will ever do)? Nothing.
What can I do to ensure that my gyno doesn't make the same sloppy mistake again with another woman? Nothing.

For me it's not about money, no amount of money would ever compensate the loss of my fertility, it's about accountability. A system that discourages accountability in medical practice is bullshit.

@ER: Your question is interesting. Let's hear what the likes of Eurovol and Crawlie have to say.

@Eurovol: Please don't hurry with your conclusions - suggest you take time to read the thread.

Agree with ER, there is no Accountability here in Germany.
I went for a prescribed massage treatment for some back and neck problems and I left the recommended physio/massage practice with large bruises on my back and the place in tears due to the pain they inflicted. I am now at a new place for treatments, they were shocked at the extent of the bruises I had, but they are hesitant to help me make an official complaint against the other office.

A misdiagnoses is a far cry from the side effects of surgery. You cannot equate the two at all. You also have to realize that the system worked. It caught the misdiagnoses before the ultimate act. Actually, the specialist should have had a look-see before the operation was even scheduled which seems to have been the case so I am not sure why you are complaining. Doctor A says you need surgery and Doctor B (the specialist) says you don't. What is the problem?


I read the thread. You had surgery and in the area of the surgery you have numbness. Unless the tumor didn't exist as in ER's case, then you have nothing to complain about! Do you have the histo report from your surgery? What does it say? Was it benign or malignant? You do know that people with some tumors lose limbs and not just a few nerves don't you? Doctors are not GOD! You have to be reasonable and asking if you can sue or not without asking did they save your life or not is totally unreasonable.

The problem is that had it not been caught, I'd be fucked.

Again, things don't have to be like in the US, there is a middle ground between no accountability and having doctors afraid to practice because any small mistake can bankrupt them.

Ah, but it was. That is why you were sent to a specialist to be doubly checked.
Funny, a cancer patient that is screened and found to be void of cancer is usually happy. You were found to be void of a tumor and seem to be pissed about it? Shit, no wonder doctors are hesitant about giving a diagnosis until more tests are run. Your reaction is fucking it up for all of us.

The only difference bringing in heavy punitive damages would do would be to increase the cost of professional indemnity insurance for the medical profession - which would be passed onto doctors and then to patients , congratulations , you'd all just pay more for the same shit.

HAve to agree with eurovol. Comparing Apples with Thermo-nuclear missiles to try and gain some kind of justification for wanting to sue is not the way forward.

One person had an amputation and, through surgical incompetence one must assume, almost died due to an artery being severed. Sounds like malpractice to me and the guy is right to be a bit pissed off.

One person had a mis-diagnosis for cancer, which was caught before the operation. It does make you distrust doctors a touch and can understand her disappointment.

One had a dodgy massage and was a bit irritated. I know quite a few people who have had dodgy massages.

One had EMERGENCY surgery to remove a tumour in an area where lots of nerve endings are present, signed waiver forms which she did not read and is now suffering from after affects that are quite normal in SOME cases due to the fact that nerve endings are very present around there but wants compensation for whatever reason.

Still don't get it

Don't be ridiculous eurovol, how I "feel" about the whole thing is neither here nor there nor have I stated how I feel one way or another. You're attempting to discredit my argument that there should be more accountability in the medical profession by attacking me personally, that may work with other posters but not with me. Poor form my friend, poor form indeed.

Parnell, I am against a system that allows punitive damages. This is not what I want, the concept goes against the argument I'm making. I want accountability not a get rich quick scheme.

If it's all about mispractice, accountability and making sure it doesn't happen to other patients would the OP be prepared to put a few hundred Euros
and a lot of time into setting up an eV that works in this area?

MT- that the question I am facing, do I make a ruckas about the physio that treated me badly, even though my insurance will pay them, and I would prefer not to have to pay, as I had to go to another doc (more costs) then start over from the beginning at another physio office again more costs.
I don't want to sue, but I do want the physio to suffer as I have suffered. I spent a weeekend in pain because of the force he used during a massage, I have photos of the large nasty bruises on my back, when I went back to the first office to get my recept back and cancel my appointments, they, yes, they tried to make me the villian by saying I should have spoken up that it had hurt. I did, I screamed three times that the pain was unbearable, and only when I broke down in tears due to the pain, the physio thru a hissyfit, and said, I should have made it more clear that it hurt.
I want accountablility not money (okay, nothing for me- but I don't feel I should have to pay for the treatment where I got hurt).
Unfortunately in this country there is no accountability for the medical profession, and yes, I am a part of that profession and it saddens me. We see patients in our office that were misdiagnosised or mistreated, and lost teeth because of it, the costs, the pain, the psychiological suffering, the lack of trust that it builds (rightfully so) and then the costs to repair the damages done.

I almost lost a kid to a misdiagnosed, and then incorrectly operated, appendix. He suffered for a week in the hospital until it ruptured - while in the hospital under medical supervision. He spent a month in the hospical, 3 weeks of it in intensive care, went through two operations - the first without preliminary anasthetic consultation - and to this day has problems with the scar tissue and has had orthoscoptic surgery again to check the damage. At some point he will need a new op to loosen the scar tissue.
I complained while we were in the hospital and we miraculously ended up with a new doctor, so I am certain some action was taken.
The pediatrician has the reports - I've seen them and it confirms the worst of what happened at the time - gangrene in the wound,etc.
There was not a chance of getting any sort of compensation and, honestly, yeah I am pissed off about it, but shit happens and I am just thankful that he survived.
People fuck up, doctors fuck up. We need to be on our toes and not trust anyone else to have full power over our bodies. Heck, I won't even get a filling replaced anymore without a second opinion, and that is based on something being missed - apparently - in one of the best dental clinics in munich.

I had my share of medical mishaps and dodgy massages, as well. There usually isn't much you can do if you're having a medical procedure that isn't going well and you don't realise it. But for pete's sake, when you are having a bad massage, and they don't listen to your clear complaints and adjust accordingly, it is your responsibility to stop the therapy, stand up, get dressed, and ask for either another therapist or your money back.

and you don't think I didn't? My german is good enough to communicate my pain, my dissatisfaction, my unwillingness to progress. I don't like being treated like a child or talked down to like one. So fuck you for knowing all the answers to my life that I didn't know!

I don't think it's very comprehensive but for those who might like to take a look:

http://www.arzthaftung-anwalt.info/medizin...CFQrqXgodxXs70Q

http://www.docslaw.de/urteile.htm

www.medizinrecht.de .

Now, Starshollow, where are you ?

No, it sounds like you let them keep hurting you, then you screamed a few times, then you had a crying hissy fit, then you probably screamed at the staff and receptionist, then you left. Now you want to cry some more and make them feel badly, when really you should just get on with your life and be less willing to be taken for an idiot next time, and just leave calmly once it's obvious the service will clearly not meet your standards.