Difficulties in making German friends

I keep on reading posts saying that it's hard to get real German friends, that they're "closed people" or stuff like that.
I keep on hearing the same thing from other Ausländer in Germany.

Well, I just want to point out a few things:
-I am a French-Canadian, and the immigrants in Montreal say the exact same crap about us.
-I lived in France, and the foreigners say the exact same crap about the French.
-I know a lot of people who lived in the US and the UK. They complained about the same things.

The Germans are not opened to meeting foreigners, that's true. But it's true of any people in its home country.

When you are in your country, already having a circle of friends, a family, habits, etc..., then you're simply not on the "meeting people mode".
Most of us, as foreigners, are desperetaly on the "meeting people mode". The 2 modes therefore don't converge. It's not about the Germans.

Totally agree. But don't tell anyone here, you might spoil the self-pity party.

Good point, paulux. Thank you!

I don't agree when it comes to the US. Sorry but I know first hand from a LARGE German community that I knew there that it is not the case. Maybe its true in parts of the US (New York?), but in the Chicagoland area, definitely not. People are very friendly, will happily WELCOME you to the neighborhood when you move in and you'll definitely get invited out many times from co-workers.

All of which is a rare occurrence here in Germany, sorry... but I speak from experience not hearsay.

I think Paulux is correct to a large extent. Even in London, one of the world's most multicultural cities, each nationality lives in its own clique. Whether Russian or Polish, Australian or South American, they all tend to stick together and then complain that they're not being given the opportunity to integrate.

That said, the Germans are without doubt less forward than, say, Americans. I believe it is harder to make German friends here, but that's only because the definition of "friend" is stricter than in other countries. But this isn't because we're Ausländer; Germans are equally reserved among each other as well, which is why long-standing work colleagues call themselves "Herr this" and "Frau that".

My experience with the US, as a foreigner, is that it is true for the most part. Sure, people are friendly. But we are talking about making friends, not being treated friendly. That is not the same thing. When I lived there, I did make friends, because I was open, started talking to people, because I realized exactly this: I am the one who needs friends, they already have friends, so they are not likely to make a first step, so guess what, I will have to.
This was my experience as a college student.
By the way, in my apartment complex there were parties all the time that everyone was invited to, but we were all exchange students.

Don't agree really, it's an attitude thing. I have more German friends than English and it's been that way since I came here. I immersed myself in their language and culture and made no effort at the beginning to mingle with the ex-pat community, instead I made myself integrate and "become German" as much as possible.

The funny moustache and Jackboots helped as did the Goose-stepping and short, shouted sentences whenever I spoke.


Whilst true maybe among the older German workforce, I find the younger, more dynamic workplaces go for the opposite. In my German company for instance, everybody is "per du" and any firm "do" pretty "ausgelassen" (rumbustious )

They had, and have a hard time because of the war, cut them some slack

_{(To any Germans: this was humour )}

EDIT:
Mariposa makes some very pertinent points too regarding the making of friends.

and the rest of us haven`t? I work in a German office, almost all germans, no other English Expats, and I am outgoing, and you know what, still no german friends here. Not for lack of trying.
The patients I do have contact with outside of the office are also english expats.

Evenm when you do get to know them they are miserable buggers anyway. Mean as hell a lot of them.

I lived in France before and found it much easier there than here. I do think Germans have a different attitude to friendship and separate much more strictly between work and social life, for example, as well as between friends and acquaintances. Seems to me that it takes a lot longer for the average German to see you as a friend, however much they enjoy hanging out with you. I found France more like England in that respect - you meet friends of friends and they can quite quickly become your friends too.

Based upon my experience, I would say that if people can identify with you in some way, friendships will result. People often can't get past compartmentalizing a person whom they meet, and this is often on the basis of nationality or race.

As for integration, tribalism persists to a certain degree even in societies that are not organized on tribal lines- the definition of 'the tribe' simply varies. When you are new to a country, it is completely understandable that you would seek help from those with whom you identify and with whom you can easily communicate.

Hey,
The people who disagree with me made good points, but I feel like there may be some misunderstanding.
I was not talking about people being unfriendly, I was talking about people not being so open with friendship (with foreigners).

About the US example, I agree that Americans are notoriously friendly. But I doubt that one can find real friendship easier in the US than here or anywhere else, for that matter.

Quite right...

"About the US example, I agree that Americans are notoriously friendly. But I doubt that one can find real friendship easier in the US than here or anywhere else, for that matter"

Interesting thing about that one. I lived and graduated from the States and whenever someone said "Oh we should do this" or " Let's try it out someday" etc you never knew if they wanted to or not. Whereas I like how Germans will stick to what they say so the same comment from them actually means "Let's go to this place/do this thing" or they would never say it at all.

------

Well let me tell you that at my first job in my profession, after working one year with the company and leaving for another job... I still on a daily basis (now 7 years later and half-a-world away) get email and communicate with a "co-worker". He is now a close friend after only knowing him at work for a year. When I go home to visit I hang out with him almost every day.
Also, I worked with another guy for about a year (maybe less) at my last job... he has remained a good friend. When I go home if I don't have a ride he and his wife pick me up from the airport. He lent me his car for my whole 2 week stay last time and a room in his house to stay (gave me the keys). Now I am going through some tough times so I get a call from him every 3 days or so to see how I'm doing. He has done far more to help me lately, but I wont go into that.
Now, who in Germany has had a German co-worker become such a good friend after only knowing each other a year? I've had 3 years and wouldn't expect any of them to offer me an umbrella in a downpour. Sorry. Now I have made a friend out of a former Irish co-worker, ball of fun that guy

I've made good German friends here, one or two from work, others I made randomly (nights out/school)

are you telling me that 'friendship' has to do with nationality?
i recommend malaysians, they are really great friends.

I wasn't talking about unfriendly either (although in that respect I do find the Germans sometimes lacking) I have close German friends that would help out in a fix. And I agree with your last sentence: people are more or less the same wherever you go. Although I do think it's also a case of pushing the right cultural buttons and some people have trouble finding them.


When I started a new job here about ten years ago I met a German at work and within two weeks we were going out for a beer after work and easily within a year I would say he counted as one of my closest friends. I could relate the meeting of any of my German friends and a good half dozen can be relied upon, in fact the relating of some of the events would have John Wayne sniffling

I agree with Conquistador, like always.
I have German friends which I have known for a long time. I would not have any issues making new ones except if they don't come up in my face with a list of weird compartmentalizations and prejudiced remarks. The friends I have don't make such retarted remarks of course. If I meet a German guy or a girl and they make remarks like "oh yeah your country did this and that badly" or "your country killed xyz" then they are not looking to make friends with me. It's evident that every country has a set of mistakes they did in their history so it's not like Germany didn't do any mistakes of its won. Of course the new generation does not have anything to do with the mistakes in the past. (unless they like those mistakes that is)

Germans are not a tribal folk. I mean if you look at people with mediterrenean heritage, they like to hang around in groups. Group association is more important than individuality for them. You would never see a single person eating a meal on his own in Italy for example, but in Germany you see a lot of lonely individuals, mostly German, eating a meal on their own.

No, I'm pointing out that as far as ease of making real "friends" with Germans isn't like MY experiences elsewhere or with other nationalities. Not the quality of friendship with nationalities. I have known one guy since 1991 (German); been on vacation with him and his family, helped him with his business, tons of times hanging out... but there is still this barrier and he is not someone I would go to for help or count on as a true Friend.

Maybe for everyone else its different, maybe I don't try hard enough, maybe its something with me... I don't know. I am just giving you my experience and opinion. I NEVER have problems making friends anywhere I go, but it seems the German is a hard nut to crack.

I didn't have any problems making german friends at all, and every person I hung around with was german, and I can truly say i have loads of real german friends from my time there. i guess it just depends on what type of personality you are - i was out every night on the club scene introducing myself to people and finding out what was going on around the city. i didn't find the young germans i met every day any different to young brits at all

In the US and perhaps some other places, "Friend" is a very elastic term. It can mean anything from the chum you have known since kindergarten to the postman whom you greet sometimes with a smile.

From what I observed in Germany, a friend is just that, someone with whom you have a substantial connection.

Personally, I think this is generally admirable as it shows a lack of superficiality that crops up in the States. I would like it if American society would distinguish a bit more between friends and acquaintances. There is nothing wrong with regarding someone as an acquaintance. There are a good many people I find likable enough, but I doubt we will ever have dinner together. Also, the phony salesman persona seems to be lacking in Germany as well.

It does make it hard to make some true friends if you are only in Germany for a short time. But its not like the place is totally devoid of gregarious people.

That's right. We call them "Italians".

Having lived here for 39 years with my husband (who is also British), we have found the Germans very friendly. We have really close German friends who dont treat us like foreigners. I think people who have difficulties making friends here, would probably have the same problem in their home country. Once you have mastered the German language things will become much easier.

im portuguese and agree to some extent. But Germans have always been known for their lack of individualism and the tendency to do everything in group. Maybe they have changed. Im very much like Germans in that i also tend to be a loner, not to mention that here in Portugal im often taken for a foreigner due to my light skin and green eyes, so im planning to move to Germania. I lived in England and Holland, England is ok but for the twiglet legged pale girls, and Holland has great girls but i dont identify with the Dutch at all, and it looks like an artificial country to me.
In Germany i dont see as many pretty girls as in Holland but when I find them theyre usually better than all the others

Germans that I know well like to mock my English accent... bastards. I'm not even from Oxford.

I dont agree, my husband loved Egypt from the first moment he stepped in it cause of its people. They are very friendly to foriegners and they are so warm by nature. There are some parts in the US which is that way too. I think it is different in Europe.

@gena:
You are correct. I think it has to do with the Sun. If you think about it, Countries which have warmer weather have warmer people. I dont blame the people of Germany, i blame the weather.
I have many personal examples to back that up... but everything said and done.. some of the best parties that i have had in Germany was with my German friends.

What are you implying, JE?
He is wearing sunglasses, for chrissakes.

Nonsense. Canadians are notoriously friendly and Canada is definitely not considered a warm weather country.

I agree with ER- heck I come from a place called Winterpeg, but they are the nicest warmest people even in -40°

Couldn't agree more. It is amazing to me how many people will meet you and within 30 seconds they say "The thing I don't like about America is..." Sorry, but when I meet someone from country X I try to go out of my way to find something nice to say about their country. I wouldn't dream of launchng into a criticism of someone's country within a minute of meeting them. It's just plain rude.

Otherwise, I have to say I get along best with Germans who have actually lived in the U.S. for a while as opposed to those whose knowledge is derived from TV and a trip to New York or Orlando.

paulux, you speak the truth. I made qite a few German friends in situations where everyone was 'new' such as in a new school or club.

I'm just curious. Is the "what i don't like thing" more about foreign policy or domestic issues like gun control or health care. To be more specific: Is
there a correlation between the latest Michael Moore movie out in Germany and the criticism?

I believe its not hard to find german friends, u just have to know where to meet nice germans, and also if u keep telling to urself that its really hard to find one,then its really is. U get what u expected!

You, You, Yourself, You, FUCKING You.

Here, have a smiley

I know it..yah U...U...U

I made quite a lot of German friends whilst out there for nearly 4 years, and I mean real friends. And I find them really loyal, you realise this when you move away.

@caveman

I encountered this phenomenon long before anyone ever heard of George Bush II.

Well, it's certainly a great relief to see that I'm not the only Toytown member who wears Jackboots constantly. Do you go for the monacle and leather gloves too? I sometimes suspect that a few of my friends secretly feel it's a bit over the top (especially in the office), but I'm unfazed.

I can only talking from experience discounting or trying to discount for larger cities effects. I have lived in Frankfurt, Munich, Barcelona, NY, London, Manchester, Norwich, Madrid and South Italy and hung out in Moscow. I am a very out-going person and can say without a doubt I understand why the Germans get such a bad reputation. Especially coming from a Manchester...they just do not get the British Northern nor Mediterranean approach to finding friends: talk to many, mix with many, hang out with many and out of those many people there many be a few diamond friends.
But if there is not who fucking cares you will have had a ball mixing and meeting new people anyhow……

Why because:

They lack the Mediterranean style of eating and inviting people to theirs house for something to eat.
They lack the British style of drinking in pubs and having a chinwag with any drunken soul. (Vodka seemed like a brilliant way to find friend in Moscow!)
They lack the “black� style of clubbing where music and dancing breaks down most barriers.

all based on my own prejudiced opinion...

** it is a generalisation so it does not mean ALL but more than many other cultures I have come into contact with or less friendly than other places I have hung out or lived in **

I agree with SmallTownBoy here. People tend to go into their own cliques. I actually find Germans friendlier than German Turks who are VERY cliquey and unfriendly. I speak some Turkish and when I try to speak to them in their own language get hostile glares. Very different from the Turks in Turkey who are lovely and much more ready to mix and make friends and even have relationships with foreigners.

So the Irish are damned unfriendly then, where it pisses rain 11 months of the year? Doing something for someone you don't know from adam in this country is totally alien.