Reporting of news in Germany

Was idly watching Heute-Journal a little earlier, and Marietta Slomka introduced a piece on Bush/Iraq starting with 'after all the lies...'.

Now, I'm not particularly a fan of Bush, nor am I American, but this seemed to be taken as fact and was not substantiated in any way. Of course, it could be true, but I was surprised (even here) that it was so openly stated when it's not something that can easily be proved, and is quite an aggressive statement. After all, saying someone lied implies premeditation and whilst that's often suggested, I'm not sure it's proven.

Wish I'd been watching it properly, just so I could give some more background here, but I'm interested to know what others think about the style of news reporting in Germany compared to elsewhere (state where).

Heute-Journal can be found on www.zdf.de, but the programme in question is not yet available.

Oh, and just to emphasise, this isn't intended to kick off a Bush: Yes or No kind of discussion, more one about the reporting of news in Germany.

If you got this far, thanks for your time.

I mostly packed up buying the product "news" from the mainstream media few years ago so this is half rememebered:
The later news shows on the public channels eg Heute-Journal and Tagesthemen tend to go over to more opinionated stuff rather than the simple news bulletins Heute and Tagesschau.
Within the framework of bourgeois liberal democracy they will offer various objectives but part of their brief is to push opinion forming and the position that Bush and others lied to the world over Iraq is widely held. It's not a Germany thing, it applies to the BBC as well, Newsnight is different to the major bulletins at 6 or 9PM.

I agree with you, but it's not just Germany.

I haven't had a television in years, and don't listen to a lot of radio or read newspapers, so when I do occassionally actually watch "mainstream" television for more than a minute or so (say at a friend's house) I am consistently amazed by aspects like how they seem - at least imo - to have really really dumbed down most programming, as well as by the general tone, which is what I think you're noticing.

Yes, they do come across as fairly opinionated and propagandistic on some of the German news programs, and definitely not impartial or just reporting the facts. As far as I can tell in America, though, now most people just choose which channel to watch based on their slant on things. If you're conservative, you watch FOX to get the conservative version of the facts, if you're liberal you go elsewhere to get a more "liberal" interpretation of the day's events.

As the previous guy said, though, it's a product. Nothing more, nothing less. If they believe they can be more appealing to the German audience by taking a more aggressive tone with certain topics, (i.e. the "lies") they have no qualms about doing that.

Watch an hour of Fox Spews if you can stomach it. Tell me if that's not biased. As for lies, haven't you heard the old saying that the first casualty of war is truth?

Bush and others did lie though didn't they? And the opinion forming that happens in some European news is at least not the blatant propaganda sometimes perpetuated in the US media.

Here are the facts, so you know what you are talking about.

This is the link to the mentioned Heute Journal (not sure if it works):
http://www.zdf.de/ZDFmediathek/content/260768?inPopup=true

Fist there is a report about Bush visiting Iraq, followed by a report about accusations of british generals and the possible withdrawal of british troops. After this Slomka is trying to lead over to a report on safety problems in the WTC. She says something like that: ... up to now a lot more American victims in Iraq than on Sept 11, the alleged war reason. An arguable comparison. But this is also a topic in America. And the lies and false promises in this war have ignited several Conspiracy theories around Sept 11.

"Heute Journal" isnt just news, it seems (im more of a tagesschau guy) to be a very opionated show. You wouldnt find this kind of comments in news broadcasts like "Tagesschau" or "Heute". Personally im okay with the "lies" remark in this situation. But I wish she wouldnt have used the comparison between soldiers and civil victims. You cant really take anything serious that follows after that remark. I´d call that sloppy writing. A failed attempt of a transition between two pieces of news.

It's other people who usually don't know what I'm talking about.

Yep, it works, just the feed wasn't available last night.

"Not a day passes without American families losing a son or daughter in this war. In the meantime more Americans have fallen in Iraq than there were American victims on September 11th, the purported reason for the war. Perhaps an inappropriate comparison, but even in America it's become an issue. And the lies and false promises of the Bush administration are fuelling the many September 11th conspiracy theories that exist."

Sloppy writing, I'd agree. Fails to mention that it's ex British generals (although let's face it, no current ones would be allowed to say anything of the sort), and the purported reason for the war was weapons of mass destruction (equally facile, but completely different).

But you're right, I normally watch Tagesschau or heute (plus BBC World and RAI TG1), so don't normally come across that style. Welt Kompakt normally seems quite balanced, or maybe it just fits my views

IMHO the news "reporting" is biased here and is often used to project the personal opinions of the reporter.

On radio (eg NDR 2) the people in programs (essentially just disc jockeys) will interview someone over the phone to a background of drumming/guitar that often drowns the conversation and at the end sum up stating things that the interviewee never even said.

TV is little better. Forget politics. For instance when there is some general aviation accident there is at least one female TV news presenter who curls down the sides of her mouth whenever she gets to present this sort of news & you can read in her tone "why is anyone apart from Lufthansa & co allowed to fly".

Strange, I was never able to read her tone or her mouth so thoroughly.

Are news of fatal accidents accompanied with jolly smiles in unbiased countries?

It doesn't matter which country...

The "News" is manufactured crap...

Propaganda...
...at the very least poorly researched and presented without verification in many cases.

Hmm, seems my title got modded - it didn't originally use the word bias. I was more angling whether the news was the way it was because of simply a different style or because of a different mentality (Weltanschauung, to use a German word that's made it into the English press). Opinions, yes, but where do opinions stop and slander start?

The general consensus seems to be that Heute-Journal isn't a strict news programme, more of a news magazine with comment, although the way it is presented seems a mix of the two to me, with no clear definition between comment and news.

As to bias, well, I didn't use that word because it's clear that news programmes in all countries have their bias and this is all the more obvious when you watch programmes from different countries.

i find the way of presenting more interesting. maybe i am biased but that's my expierence:
i like the set-up of our (German) news: international, national, bavarian and then local. it doesn't matter whether you are listening to a popular music station or a more serious one, the newspaper or TV. you get a pretty good 5 mins (or longer) summary of news.
when living in the UK, my best source of international news was the first section of the financial times (and the Economist). all the other major mainstream papers had maybe 1 or 2 pages on international news. (for my studies, i had to know what's going on outside UK). when listening to the popular music stations, getting a summary of all major events was nearly impossible. additionally, some headlines in UK (ie Posh & Becks or other 'major' events) wouldn't get broadcasted here.

i agree with Pleb. i also think that today's society is overflowed with information and doesn't really want objective news.

What ? But he DID lie to the world ! Don't u know that ?

LOL...just kidding...I get the point of the thread starter.

I agree that even if that is some globally accepted assumption, such statements should be avoided for the sake of journalistical professionalism.

But may I add, that at the time when the so called "war on terror" peaked in popularity among the American masses, the propaganda that I witnessed on CNN (which is pretty watered down compared to FOX) left me banging my head against the wall.

So one could argue that the German Media lacks professionalism in presenting for a fact a widely accepted assumption, while the American Media lacked professionalism in presenting for facts some rubbish widely accepted as such (outside the US, of course).

I'm sure you do, but that's not the point. This isn't a poll on who likes it and who doesn't, nor is it a discussion on whether Germany or the UK have the best reporting. It's up to people themselves to chose what they like, I was just interested why this particular report (or link item) was introduced in the way it was.

guy, excuse me then. didn't realise i had to agree with you.

and i sure didn't start a discussion on


i made pretty clear that it is my opinion only and therefore not the general rule. you don't like it, don't read it.

You don't, and in fact I said it was up to each person what they like, but keeping on topic is good


I might say the same...

Indeed ...

Turning truth into lies

Senior CIA officials have revealed that George Bush was told there were no WMD in Iraq. A false memo was used to persuade Tony Blair that there were ...

miwild's post exemplifies what the OP was talking about. The commentary was authored by someone who once worked for Bill Clinton, and is a known critic of Bush, yet miwild presents what he says as fact.


Hopefully, we'll get the full picture one day about what actually happened. Till then, I won't take a Democratic spinmeister's word as fact.

Bush critics are liars, Bush´s neocon supporters aren´t ... fact !

In the case of at least one critic, you would seem to be correct.

Interesting ... how was AWOL Dubya involved in America´s genocidal activities in South-East Asia ?

Main stream media (MSM) is a misnomer. It should more accurately be called "Corporate Media" and it is biased everywhere. The biggest lie going is that the media is liberally biased when we all know that it is biased towards the bottom line without exception.

Olbermann on Bush's lies! If he wasn't making the station money, he would be gone.

I was watching tv last night and saw in one report where they said there was no TÜV or equivalent in England and that's why there are so many crap cars on the roads there. WTF? On Saturday night there was a report of the attrocious behavious of english tourists and how the poor german suffer becuase of it. Quality stuff...

What was the show as that is blatantly untrue.

There was a report on last night about drunken misbehaviour in city centres in Germany.
It seemed very similar to one they showed about Manchester a year ago mind.

The story about British tourists sounds like something the private trash channels (Sat1, rtl, rtl2 ...) love to cover.

The one with the TÜV was Auslandsjournal and it was a piece about VW Van-Fans in GB.
The one with the tourists was indeed something on RTL... Something like Heutejournal Wochenende.

But it doesn't really matter which channel it is, I know if I see some report on DLand TV and it is about the GB or Ireland that there will be some gross inaccuracy or piece of german arrogance. A few weeks ago it was something about how crap the food is in ireland and how great it is here. Before that they were belittling the standard of Handwerker and building in blighty and how great they are here. I think you can see the common thread... If it's one thing the Germolenes love it is patting themselves on the back, mostly with no apparent basis in reality.

Auslandsjournal is produced by one of the ARD companies if I re-call and I would have expected better.
It's interesting that they were slagging off VW van fans though, where were those vans made...

Trouble is, a cliché is easier to produce than explaining the deeper realties and means they can get to the pub quicker.

Sorry I got it wrong it was Welspiegel (but it is very similar to Auslandsjournal). It's even mentionen on this page:
http://www.daserste.de/weltspiegel/

Großbritannien
Ohne TÜV ins Glück
Jedes Jahr das gleiche Ritual: Am Ende des Sommers treffen sich im beschaulichen Great Malvern Tausende
Bulli-Fans und zelebrieren, was in Deutschland kaum mehr möglich ist:
Eine große Bulli-Show.
Egal ob T1, T2 mit oder ohne Luftkühlung, in Großbritannien darf alles rollen, was Spaß macht:
Denn hier gibt es keinen TÜV - das Paradies für alle Schrauber mit Fernweh.

Sadly, there's no further link from the title but cheers.
The banner is distinctly misleading and I think a letter to NDR might be in order...

Ha ha ha ha I know that van.
And yeah they're getting an email because that van has got an MOT.

Psssst buy the DVD and see a classic Dub get a MOT!