germania
Sep 3 2007, 1:55 pm
I’m a German female living in Australia since 1998 and getting a bit sick of it. That’s when I googled and found Toytown. Interesting how we Germans are perceived… mmh sometimes even quite amusing. I bet in my first year(s) here I thought why the f*** are they doing it this way, when we in Germany are sooo happy to do it that way.
Before you came to Germany, did you read any books about life in Germany – how it works here, about the culture, the emotional side of migrating…and if so, did it help you to understand what you’re getting yourself into? And in hindsight what information did you wish you would’ve had before you came to Germany (apart of the “fact� that all Germans are Nazis, rude and stare a lot

) ?
Since I write and try to establish myself as a writer, I wonder if it is worth for all the migrants in the world to write a book on that topic. I would rather choose the emotional side of migrating in general (doesn’t have to be to Germany), since there are a lot of “How to books�… out.
Do you think you would like to share your experience (PM) with me?
Thanks for reading this topic.
just jumped right in, couldn`t speak a word either.
germania
Sep 3 2007, 2:05 pm
Hi Carm
I did speak English, at least a bit before I came here. But I didn't know what life would be like in Australia. I mean you get all the tourism information, but hardly anybody who is honest with you. Also I think migrating is like the grieving process, you do go through different stages through out your life in a foreign country and sometimes you feel so alone with it. Ah well, maybe it's only me
Johnny English
Sep 3 2007, 2:09 pm
grieving? bit heavy.
zemonkey
Sep 3 2007, 2:12 pm
"In the words of the ancients, one should make his decisions within the space of seven breaths."
"If discrimination is long, it will spoil. " Lord Naoshige said, "When matters are done leisurely, seven out of ten will
turn out badly. A warrior is a person who does things quickly.''
When your mind is going hither and thither, discrimination will never be brought to a conclusion. With an intense,
fresh and undelaying spirit, one will make his judgments within the space of seven breaths. It is a matter of being
determined and having the spirit to break right through to the other side.
Unlike many here, I find Germany (and Germans) refreshingly American compared to living in France or China.
And the Munich people - fantastically friendly.
Oh and two magical words: "RELOCATION AGENT"
I have not bought any of these but ...
http://www.amazon.com/Living-Working-Germa...4912&sr=1-8
Johnny English
Sep 3 2007, 2:16 pm
QUOTE (zemonkey @ Sep 3 2007, 3:12 pm)

A warrior is a person who does things quickly
Me. I am a "warrior" in bed. Sounds good to me.
Lorelei
Sep 3 2007, 2:21 pm
Germania, I think the emotional side of migrating would make a really interesting subject for a book.

I spoke German fairly well, but hadn't spent much time in Germany. Didn't do any preparation, as I didn't really expect the culture and attitudes to be much different from the UK, and I'd lived abroad before, so didn't think the settling in process would be much different. What I wished that I'd known beforehand was that staring and brusqueness was nothing personal. I
did take it personally and was pretty miserable for the first few years. I didn't believe in making a bee-line for English speakers or the British community either, as I was interested in the German culture (and I liked the few Germans I knew anyway), but day-to-day dealings with people whom I took to be offhand or rude (while they probably meant nothing by it and were just being neutral) really got me down.
I think that not automatically assuming the worst about people's reactions, just because they're different from what you're used to, might have been a good attitude, as well as knowing that I'd have to work doubly hard at getting to know people and what made them "tick". Consciously trying to develop a "glass half full" attitude, and knowing that I'd not have to be too sensitive, might have been good preparation.
zemonkey
Sep 3 2007, 2:32 pm
A chapter on those that get dragged along... children and accidental hausfrau oder hausmann
And a little research
http://www.expatexpert.com/rr_the_irrevere...t_wife_syndromehttp://www.google.com/search?q=expat+syndrome
bluedave
Sep 3 2007, 2:34 pm
Just dived in and found myself sat in a pokey little Pension in Ottobrunn wondering what the hell i'd done.
germania
Sep 3 2007, 3:33 pm
@ Johnny English.
To clarify, I know grief – and in my view and experience grief is something that will always be with you, so will my life as a migrant. I’m 40 years old now and maybe that is a (the) difference to some others who take the risk or opportunity to leave their country, thinking they’ve got nothing to lose being young and all. I’m just interested in how people handle the very emotional side of migrating. When you are young you do a lot of things you think you have to do and don’t consider the consequences, whatever they might be.
My next door neighbours are an old German couple. Years ago she said to me, that she would not do it again, but it’s not worth to go home now. I never forgot that, and at the time I didn’t understand it, but now I do.
Some people say, if it doesn’t work out, you can always go back. Well I think you can’t really, your career is im Arsch, no one recognizes what you did in your host country, everybody has moved on. Now for us ordinary folks that’s a lot to handle.
I must have done something wrong, when all the migrants around me seem to be so happy. Thing is, they aren’t and a lot of them get through the day only because they either have a lot of their family here or they are heavily involved in their community. Meaning they mingle with their own and do only the absolute necessary business with the Australians.
The politics here suck big time, but in Germany too. So that’s not a reason to complain. As I said before I’m interested in the very emotional side of migrating, but that’s probably something people don’t want to think or talk about, because it can be very painful.
I’m just trying to find out, if there is a need for that kind of book. It’s not that I couldn’t write about different things or wouldn’t know what else to do with my time.
As for the relocation agents, I assume you get one when you have a lot of spare cash or the company you are working for is paying for one. Do they do a good job? Did you feel you got the right answer to your questions?
Thanks Lorelei, this is what I’m after.
And yes for Zeamonkey, I find the ones your drag along with you very important. Only thing is, I would need to hear from them. Or from the parents point of view, when the kids are too little. So if anyone is willing to share their experience, please PM me.
@bluedave...and still happy with your decision?
Sorry for this long post.
bluedave
Sep 3 2007, 3:35 pm
That was in 1984 germania so i guess it kinda worked out Ok
Eleanor Rigby
Sep 3 2007, 3:57 pm
Never underestimate the "grass is always greener" syndrome.
Back in Canada I knew a German family who complained constantly about how wonderful things were in Germany. They moved back to Germany after a few years only to realise things weren't as ideal as they had remembered them to be. After 2 years, they moved back to Canada (even moved back to the same street they lived on before). Last I heard they had moved back to Germany.
There are books out there on this whole subject. Ones that talk about the emotions and stages of culture shock (that's the emotional bit you're refering to). There are also pamphlets and other things- just need to know where to look.
I have some of the material from years of dealing with exchange students.
butterbean
Sep 3 2007, 4:22 pm
agree with mere - tons of books out there already. and as you can see on this forum, almost everyone experiences culture shock differently. my company sent me to "cross-cultural training" before I moved to Germany. other than that one can expect some short of adjusment/shock, the rest was a load of rubbish. my German friends had a good time laughing at the aspects of German culture that I should have supposedly prepared for...
ben_gunn
Sep 4 2007, 8:07 am
Agree with the last two posts. There have to be thousands of books out there already dealing with this. People have been moving and emigrating from one country to another since the beginning of time, so it's not exactly a new topic.
As far as the culture shock goes. There were tough times, but I tend to look back now at my "worst" times and am of the opinion that I contributed in some major ways to my own unhappiness.
As an American, I was not prepared, however, for the many many people who hold a negative view of American politics, culture, literature, films, etc. and so desperately want to discuss it all with me for hours on end. I made the same mistake as one of the posters above and personalized alot of that criticism. Now, I just look people in the eye and say either, "I don't want to talk about it." or "I have no idea. I haven't seen the movie / read the book / seen the news or whatever," if I don't feel like discussing. Problem solved. Life is good.
Being wistful about the Heimat or entertaining second thoughts about your decision to emigrate is understandable, but if it goes on for too long, you'll look around one day and realize that you're not living life each day where you are. You'll be missing out on what life has to offer in Australia or wherever. In the spirit of the warrior posting above, make your decision and stick to it. It's hard to steer just by looking in the rearview mirror.
TheSwedishChef
Sep 4 2007, 8:14 am
My opinion is that if you are going to sit there and bitch about a place incessantly, as opposed to the occasional moan to a fellow expat, then you may as well bugger off back to the place you came from, or go somewhere else. Fine, you can also bitch about how difficult it will be for you to move back to Germany, or to whichever homeland your situation applies, but in the end you aren't doing yourself any favours by staying.
Either stay and love it, or piss off home. Simple, I would have thought.
UrbanAngel
Sep 4 2007, 8:54 am
I guess I should've had it easy - I spoke German beforehand, I'd been visiting Munich on a regular basis and liked it. However I still found it really hard to adapt here. Depends on the type of person you are really.
cardinalsinger
Sep 4 2007, 9:06 am
I have lived in Germany now a year and I moved here for love . :-) I must say it was an easy decision to move here. I had a very positive attitude and expected some homesickness and adaptations. Luckily, I have and had a very supportive husband. But I did experience some very unexpected emotional side-effects to culture shock. One being, when I felt homesick, sometimes I didn't really know what I was feeling, and instead was grumpy with my husband often taking out my anger on him. When we would discuss my 'mood for the week' further, it would always end up that I was very homesick and the adjustments were catching up with me. I was unconsciously blaming him for my decision to move here and not vice versa. Then I started feeling like I didn't really think my decision all the way through from the beginning. I would say my biggest mistake was using my assertiveness and positive attitude (not wanting to be a spoiled American brat stereotype) too much, and not letting or allowing myself to actually feel sadness or speak about it. I felt if I told people that I was sad or I didn't like something here that it would look like I was immature or whining, or that I wasn't 'happy' here. In reality, I am content here, but that doesn't mean that I won't deal with adjustments daily! Just a little after a year and the reality is setting in that I'm really here for good.
I would love to read a book about this if anyone has any suggestions!! And I think a new book would be great. (at least for me...or maybe I'm just too emotional right now. haha)
Lorelei
Sep 4 2007, 9:10 am
germania, I don't know whether you're able to get German TV over in Australia, but there's a programme on at the moment on VOX called "
Goodbye Deutschland" (
http://www.vox.de/magazine_1228.php). It shows German couples and families as they emigrate to other parts of the world (Canada, US, NZ, South Africa, etc.).
One thing that has struck me about a lot of the people shown, is that they appear to have a go-ahead, optimistic and practical attitude. Being prepared for setbacks, and coping with them when they arise but not getting down about them for long. Being prepared to take jobs that might not be their first choice but which enable them to make money, rather than seeking some ideal that might have been possible in their home country but which they won't necessarily find in the new country. You see them going out exploring their new environment, with an enthusiastic curiosity, rather than mourning the things that they miss from home or picking fault with the new country (maybe they do this, but you don't see it often.) They seem to be looking ahead and not back.
Lorelei
Sep 4 2007, 9:43 am
QUOTE (mere @ Sep 3 2007, 5:14 pm)

There are books out there on this whole subject. Ones that talk about the emotions and stages of culture shock (that's the emotional bit you're refering to).
Can you recommend any titles?
planetmoni
Sep 4 2007, 10:02 am
QUOTE (ben_gunn @ Sep 4 2007, 9:07 am)

There have to be thousands of books out there already dealing with this. People have been moving and emigrating from one country to another since the beginning of time, so it's not exactly a new topic.
a case study would be more interesting (going more into social science, social behaviour etc, (national) identity etc) or disguising the issue in a exciting family novel.
germania
Sep 4 2007, 10:45 am
Thanks to everyone who replied. I thought about how I phrased my question, last night and today – all day long. I think I didn’t make my project clear enough. What I would like to do is basically a book about people from all over the world, living in a foreign country. I would rather write it as a collection of short stories than just rattling down some facts. I don’t want it to be a book about How to migrant to XYZ. I want it to be about people. So Cardinalsinger’s post hits it spot on and personally I experienced simular things. I want it to be a journey for the reader. People read about other people’s lives and may or may not sit down and reflect on their own lives and experiences. It’s meant to be balanced.
I do like reading or watching a tv program about other cultures. I’m interested in people. I talked about this project with my girlfriend in Germany. Straight away she told me about a lot of people she knows and will ask, if they would like to take part. I also have contact to a family in Australia - he is German, she Australian. They lived for 20 years in Germany and came here just 4 years ago. Now this makes a really interesting story in my opinion since both are experiencing the same thing, only years apart. Anyway, he told me he would be happy to participate, but she doesn’t want to.
I do by the way fully agree with the last paragraph ben gunn has written. For 8 years I was happy here, and something has changed. I need to find out what it is and how serious it is in order to start enjoying my life again. Setting my mind on this book is a good way for me to start.
People have told me about these migrating shows. Some of them seem to be good, some of them seem to rather pick dumb asses who today decide to go to Spain, and three days after arrival complain about how difficult it is and hell they didn’t know that they speak Spanish there. What strikes me as sad and extreme is the fact that Germany doesn’t seem to be a nice place to be anymore, when you are unemployed. How desperate people are to leave with their entire family in tow and just pick up any crappy job in their new countries, in order to have, after a few hard years, a better life. The country I grew up in does no longer exist, so going back for good is not an option for me.
Again such a long post – sorry. I find it hard to shorten sentences down, since English is my second language.
Just read planet monis reply...yes that would be very interesting and in my opinion long overdue. Also I believe governments could make it a bit easier for migrants if they would just learn to listen. And marketing people and what could learn tons of what customers really want, if they would just read through this kind of websites where foreigners meet. Imagine people Customer Service in Germany
melbel
Sep 4 2007, 10:53 am
Hello Germania,
I think this is a good idea. It could be a very interesting read. I was raised listening to stories from my parents and grandparents about the difficulties and successes of immigration. I'm Australian, but my family immigrated to Australia from Italy in the 50's,...they arrived with one suitcase, two small children and a job with the NSW railway. Now, I too have immigrated and have been living in Germany for a year and a half. (moved for love,...my husband is German) I agree with butterbean however, that everyone experiences culture shock (or the emotions associated with culture shock) differently because it's really quite a personal thing. I bought a book about German culture before moving to Germany, but to be honest,...reading about the differences and walking through the turf of the differences were two completely different experiences. I'm not sure how helpful (or accurate for that matter) these books are. I'm sure it helped me on one level, but the problem with some of these books is that they run the risk of generalising about a culture. If the reader is going through a rough patch then some of these books about culture may (and I stress 'may') help a reader to justify their struggle instead of helping them to get through it constructively. I must admit however, I've never read any books on culture shock, and these may offer more constructive advise or guidance for people in the midst of the emotional stuff.
I bought a book at Borders in Melbourne about 2 years ago called 'Per l'Australia - The story of Italian Migration' (ISBN 0 522 85111 8) The author (Julia Church) interviewed Italian immigrants about their personal journeys of immigration in Australia. This author hasn't focused a great deal on the emotional journey,...yes, it's there and some of the people she interviews definitely talk about the emotions of leaving their homelands and entering a new one, but I don't think it was the main focus for her research. I loved this book, it really hit a personal cord with me. But I thought it might be interesting for you as you too are interested in people's stories (emotional stories) of immigration.
Cheers
Melbel
kwenga
Sep 4 2007, 11:10 am
QUOTE (germania @ Sep 4 2007, 11:45 am)

What strikes me as sad and extreme is the fact that Germany doesn’t seem to be a nice place to be anymore, when you are unemployed. How desperate people are to leave with their entire family in tow and just pick up any crappy job in their new countries, in order to have, after a few hard years, a better life. The country I grew up in does no longer exist, so going back for good is not an option for me.
Sure it's different from 20 years ago, but I really wouldn't say that it's not a good place to live in anymore. Being unemployed is crap in every country, and there's always been people moving from one place to another. My aunt and uncle moved to Australia more than 50 years ago, kids were born there, they worked hard and probably did not even have time to think about whether they regretted it. And they were a lot more isolated from their kin in those days, no photos or chat via email, no 'food from home' via internet. Maybe the isolation also helped to root into the new home country, information from your old home was sparse and going back was not an easy option.
Scogs
Sep 4 2007, 11:26 am
I got on a plane with a suite case a hotel reservation and a job offer, all within a week of getting the job offer. no preperation I was actually going to be in Munich the day after the job offer but my mother died so came here a week late. I seem to have got stuck here as that was in 1999
ben_gunn
Sep 4 2007, 11:53 am
QUOTE (germania @ Sep 4 2007, 11:45 am)

I do by the way fully agree with the last paragraph ben gunn has written. For 8 years I was happy here, and something has changed. I need to find out what it is and how serious it is in order to start enjoying my life again. Setting my mind on this book is a good way for me to start.
What strikes me as sad and extreme is the fact that Germany doesn’t seem to be a nice place to be anymore, when you are unemployed. How desperate people are to leave with their entire family in tow and just pick up any crappy job in their new countries, in order to have, after a few hard years, a better life. The country I grew up in does no longer exist, so going back for good is not an option for me.
I hope you find out whatever it is that is bothering you, and can get on with living life. Just because you are in a retrospective position right now, though, does not mean that it necessarily has to to with being in Australia. If you were happy up until now, I'd be looking at other possible causes in you life for your discontent. Maybe it's just the age you're at right now?
Germany is a fine place to be, though. Don't worry. Tell me the country where it's fun to be unemployed.
I understand your feelings, though. When I go "home" to the US and see how things have changed, it disappoints me as well. However, the truth is that there are a lot of things about your own country that you just don't notice until you've been away for a while. This gives the appearance of change. I am sure it is a well-documented phenomenon on TT.
Lorelei-
Sure, but it’d have to wait another week. Since I’m not by the books and material at the moment.
What are you more interested in? I have stuff from studying abroad, hosting, and being in charge of orientations for both groups. Mainly the topics would be on culture shock, accepting new immigrants (e.g. if you’re the host family for an exchange student or program), being the new person, and other randomness.
Lorelei
Sep 4 2007, 2:33 pm
That would be great, mere, but don't put yourself to any trouble. I just wondered if you could remember the titles. I'd be interested in something general, from the point of view of the new person: e.g. dealing with how to emigrate successfully.
zemonkey
Sep 4 2007, 10:13 pm
Germania,
Overall it sounds like a good project. Good luck with it.
Ever heard of
third culture kids
silty1
Sep 5 2007, 4:55 am
I've made three major moves in 18 years: from western Canada to Quebec, from Quebec to Hong Kong, from Hong Kong to Germany. The culture shock was something to get over each time and I don't believe any amount of preparation via books or other research can minimise it. You just have to get through it and adapt, stop comparing what you don't have now with what you had before and start looking at all you have wherever you are.
germania
Sep 5 2007, 5:50 am
@ben gunn I agree, you sound like a wise person
@melbel thanks for the book hint, I will check this one out
@zemonkey I've heard of it, but need to look further into it, thanks for that
@silty1 You would be a good candidate for me, since the aim is telling about (not judging) different cultures
@kwenga I know a family like that, too. Came here 60 years ago. True what you're saying about keeping in touch, it's way easier these days. Thing is, these type of migrants were "lured" into the country, they had only a one way ticket, once here no way of going back anytime soon, because they just didn't have the money. Sometimes these are exactly the migrants who today think all the illegal migrants should be in detention and sent back as soon as possible. They don't seem to think there is a more human way to handle this situations - sad world.
globalgirl
Sep 5 2007, 9:52 am
I made the move to France for a year when I was 19, back in 1999, by myself and worked as an aupair for a british familly who had adopted a bulgarian orphan.
Since then I've lived in London for 3 years, Ireland for just over a year, and now Berlin for just over a year (with random efforts to live in Vancouver, Toronto and Yellowknife). Each time I moved with only usually between 4 days and a months notice, and usually never having ever been to the place before, having no friends/familly/job there.
The 'starting over' in a new place and everything it involves is very draining and I'm now trying to make myself a bit more perminent in Berlin. Trying to go back and live in Canada is almost impossible, it's bizare having reverse culture shock when I go back.
I find it really interesting to hear other peoples stories on how/why they've ended up somewhere and their reactions to it.
germania
Sep 9 2007, 12:33 pm
Sounds really interesting. Want to share for my great project? Pleeease
eurobabs
Sep 9 2007, 12:40 pm
Sold everything I owned. Packed my backback and bought a one-way ticket. Never prepared and just jumped in. That was 6 years ago and best thing I ever did.
I did buy a couple "culture shock" books, but to be honest, never read them. Every person is different and every person adjust differently. You just have to do it.
germania
Sep 9 2007, 12:57 pm
I understand that, it works mostly for young people with no kids. And as I explained somewhere in my replies, I probably chose the wrong headline for my intentions.
I moved without much preparation myself. You can read up on some subjects before you leave, but that's it. At the end you have to expierience it yourself. And this is what I want to write about. For me it's not about How the Germans or Americans or the Chinese doing their banking, it's about a life journey.
cabbagefairy
Sep 9 2007, 12:59 pm
I packed up and moved here with 3 weeks notice at 18, left behind a bf of 3 years, friends and family to be an aupair. Almost 2 years later I'm still here, new job, bf and friends. I agree you just have to take the plunge.
Fallen Angel
Sep 9 2007, 1:16 pm
One of the hardest things for me was going through a sort-of inbetween phase between my life in the States and my life here. I was over here working on getting my German up to speed, making friends and all that-- but wasn't really to a point yet where I could say I had established a life. At the same time I could feel my old life at home slipping away. Slowly losing contact with people, missing out on the latest gossip at home, the tv shows that every one was talking about, occassionally forgetting a word in English, etc. It was frustrating to feel like I didn't really belong anywhere anymore.
At some point I grew out of it. My German was to a point where I could express myself nearly as well as I could in English, I was doing well in my job, I had met some great people... and suddenly I felt like I had my life where I wanted it.
Now I have a very weird connection to home. Home is where I visit.

I can't imagine ever living there again. But I love my home- I loved growing up there and it will always be home to me I guess.
eurobabs
Sep 9 2007, 2:05 pm
QUOTE (germania @ Sep 9 2007, 1:57 pm)

I understand that, it works mostly for young people with no kids. ...For me it's not about How the Germans or Americans or the Chinese doing their banking, it's about a life journey.
A HUGE percentage of people on this site (and I imagine a lot of those who have replied to your post) are over 30, 40 and upwards. And I would say that also for a HUGE percentage of us - it is also about a life journey as well.
AND there are tons of people who have just up and moved here that do have kids.
Lavender Rain
Sep 9 2007, 2:21 pm
QUOTE (germania @ Sep 3 2007, 2:55 pm)

Before you came to Germany, did you read any books about life in Germany?
Prior to moving to Germany, I had a job offer to move to Seoul, Korea. I did some research and turned down that offer. Then my offer for Germany came a few months later. My research told me that German had a high standard of living and the climate was milder than the harsh winter climate I was living in and that was all I needed to know and I packed my bags. Nothing else about Germany really mattered to me, other than these too points. After living here for over ten years now and loving it, I definitely made the right decision to move here.
eurovol
Sep 9 2007, 2:38 pm
It is different for everyone. I would suggest that to write about it, you would have to generally categorize the type of person and what that type experiences and on what timescale.
I moved here 10 years ago with 13 suitcases, a German wife and a dream. The hardest part was reducing my life and belongings to 13 suitcases.
Never felt homesick at first, except for missing College football.
Took about 12 months to shed myself of US preconditioning about socio-political things European and learn some truths.
First trip home to the states for a month and after 3 weeks I couldn't wait to get back to Munich. I missed my new home tremendously.
Took my Mother dying to realize how much I missed family and friends (home is where the heart is!). I still have this feeling and it is getting worse as mortality is a real issue as I get older and so do they.
Except for my parents, my family has not visited me here and that makes me angry! Really ANGRY!
I have had lifelong friends visit me, but it always feels to short and to infrequent.
Dad flies in on Friday and I can't wait. It is like a fix for a drug habit.
I have many a friend here, but our life experiences are just not the same and that is a problem.
I think that is why after 10 years I am getting some kind of midlife-expat crisis.
Going to see NFL football tonight at the Arc and hope to capture some of the old time feelings. Won't be like the 120k UT fans decked out in orange yesterday in Knoxville, but if we beat up those pussy rugby fans and take over their TV, then life will be good and the universe will be once more in order.
zorsey
Sep 9 2007, 3:41 pm
I came here from Canada on a three month holiday. Ended up getting work here and not taking my flight back.
I find that over the years I have definitely lost the connection to most people and events in Canada. Still I think I'll always be Canadian at heart and feel quite comfortable in Canada although I am not sure if I could live there again. Makes me a bit nervous sometimes.
The problem is, although I am comfortable here in Germany too, something is stopping me from total integration. Guess I am just stuck in the middle of two cultures.
Definitely no regrets on having made the move.
Sweetypie
Sep 9 2007, 4:00 pm
QUOTE (zorsey @ Sep 9 2007, 4:41 pm)

Guess I am just stuck in the middle of two cultures.
Happens to most of us who've changed continents/countries. You get the feeling that you are neither here nor there. Anyway, my policy is to bloom where I am planted
IMHO the "neither here nor there" thing is far worse when commuting betwen countries which I did for several years before moving across, first for one year then another then a great (German) gf who is now my wife of almost 19 years...
With my elderly relatives dying off in the UK the ties are being cut one-by-one.
I suppose when my brother & I cleared my mother's house out prior to selling it just over a year ago made it clear that there was no longer an anchor point (like a free bed) of any sort back in the UK.
germania
Sep 10 2007, 12:21 pm
@Eurovol, Zorsey I can relate to that, sounds a lot like me talking, if only to myself
@HEM That's what I find so scary...relatives dying...no ties
I know that there are a lot of people here on TT with kids. I was refering to the post where the person wrote about several moves into several countries. I think people with kids rather not do it, so I assumed the person is a very young and independent one.
zemonkey
Sep 10 2007, 12:53 pm
QUOTE (germania @ Sep 10 2007, 1:21 pm)

I know that there are a lot of people here on TT with kids. I was refering to the post where the person wrote about several moves into several countries. I think people with kids rather not do it, so I assumed the person is a very young and independent one.
Not the best assumption. It is actually one of the reason I accepted Munich - I wanted to bring my children into another culture, another language, etc. I grew up moving and thought it was a hard but excellent school. I would not have it any other way, my kids are special with this extra baggage. And if I could have done it earlier I would have - who knows 3-5-10 years from know we might go to the next spot. We'll see. But the reasons and the landing have to be as good as now with kids. Alone? You pack and go. With kids it requires so much more planning and cultural insurance. I had/ve offers to places I would go alone but not with kids. Or more exactly, I would bring them but it is not my sole decision and convincing takes a while. Munich is the soft belly of ex-patting it. Fully assisted culture and all that.
Erised
Nov 21 2008, 6:34 am
New to the forum and new to beautiful Germany. Well, still feels new. I arrived in January from America to just outside Berlin and it has not been easy. Odd would be a better word. The decision to leave it all behind and live here was an easy one. But dealing with odd feelings of stupidity has been the worst. First thing is having to deal with jet lag that is still kicking my butt, I find myself up or down at the oddest times. Plus, having to get up at 2 in the morning to talk to my family, does not help either. I was an army brat, so packing up and moving was a way of life, thought I could handle it just fine. I even lived here as a child and knew 3 phrases. LOL So I never thought I would have any problems. What you do not know when you move here is that you will be starting fresh as complete moron. EVERYTHING is different and you cannot count on any of your skills and must learn everything again like a child. Say you are a great cook, not here. First, if you are like me, metric was something obscure and only knew the basics, I knew what 2 liters of coke looked like. So you have a family recipe, but unless you have the measuring things, forget it, you must translate the whole thing to metric first. Add to that, they probably won't like it anyway.

Second, the money is different. The outlets are different. The toilets are different. Taking your shoes off at the door. Little things, big things, so many things. Not to mention, if you are like me, you cannot ask for help because you cannot speak enough German to make yourself understood. I cry during the holidays. I thought I was bigger than that. I was a strong, independant American woman that could fly through my day without too much difficulty. Now I am the idiot that knows next to nothing. Paperwork and deadlines hanging over your head, with that fear always there that they will kick you out of the country because you missed something. Of course, my priority at this point is learning German, which by the way, is completly backwards to English sentence structure, so straight translation will get you stared at. But I am determined to learn it. I do not regret for one second moving here to live, but would have been nice to know the depth of stupidity you will feel. The only reason I am still sane is because the people here are warm and accepting. They are helpful and will go out of their way for you and for me, the best part... they speak English.
spatown
Nov 21 2008, 1:05 pm
Culture shock and homesickness. Happens to most people after the initial settling in, unless you stay stoned or drunk all the time! Different is good - everything you master will make you a stronger and more interesting person. You will eventually go back to the US to visit and you will find that you have moved on from the person you were when you left. Make a point of joining something/learning something. There must be meet ups in Berlin, if not initiate something. You will be fine - just believe it.
swimmer
Nov 21 2008, 5:54 pm
QUOTE (Erised @ Nov 21 2008, 6:34 am)

Now I am the idiot that knows next to nothing. Paperwork and deadlines hanging over your head, with that fear always there that they will kick you out of the country because you missed something. Of course, my priority at this point is learning German, which by the way, is completly backwards to English sentence structure, so straight translation will get you stared at.
It is indeed a bit like being five years old again. However, I eventually learned to kind of make the most of it - I'm not German and so I know nothing and so please tell me and respect that I'm inept for the moment

. A lot of us do eventually get to a point where we stop feeling worried or inhibited about it but instead start trading off it.
And we learn not to worry about the little things. We will do them wrong. The world won't end. We learn to cut ourselves some slack.
Of course learning German is great and my advice is to do it as quickly as possible by taking as many classes as possible - integration course if poss. That was when I turned it round because it was, again, like I was a five year old but this time it was actually very comforting because I got spoon-feeding, nurturing and attention (which is something many migrants miss) and fun-time with interesting new friends and left my adult responsibilities behind for the first time in 20 years

. Not to mention that it made life here a zillion times better and easier.
In other words, I turned the "I'm an inept, helpless child" aspect to my advantage and became quite self-indulgent about it

.
Expaticus
Nov 21 2008, 5:56 pm
QUOTE
Life's like a shit sandwich ... the more bread you have, the less shit you have to eat.
Bring money.
mlovett
Nov 21 2008, 6:16 pm
but not credit cards!
Drinking wine helps. Look straight into the desk lamp and pretend it's the sun.