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Refused permission to sublet

After three years, suddenly not possible

Toytown Germany > Discussion forum > South Germany > Munich > Life in Munich
berny
First, a promise. This is not going to turn out like that never ending deposit thread which resembled a lonelygirl15 shoot off. No Chance.

So heres how it is.

I moved to munich in 2004 and found an apartment. The apartment is a little odd in that its two separate altbau studio roof appartments sharing a common entrance. We decided to rent both apartments with a friend of ours. That meant my girlfriend and i shared one apartment, and our friend had the other one to himself. On the contract, we rented the entire place between 3. My girlfriend was named as Hauptmieter(in?).

After about 9 months our friend got offered the chance to go study in paris, so we went to the owner and asked how we should proceed. it was agreed that we (My girlfriend and i) would continue as Hauptmietern and we would be granted the right to sub let the other apartment. This went fine, we found tenants and the rent was always paid.

Ok, bad luck i guess, in 3 years we have had 5 tenants. most have left to study elsewhere in germany, one english/american couple lost their jobs and had to move back home, and the last one was the weirdest. she signed the contract and paid everything, but didnt have time to move in. after a month, we started thinking...this is a little odd...why isnt she moving in. she came in one day and painted the place. still didnt move in...eventually the call came "oh actually i can go live with my sister, can i find a nachmieter?"

which meant AGAIN going to the landlords agent and telling him, "another one gone" and saying that we're going to look for a nachmieter again. fine, let me know how you get on.

friends of friends were looking at the time for a place, and we let them know, and they took it. they rented the place from the 01.08.07 but couldnt move over until last weekend. Today i brought them to the landlords agent to formally introduce them. this is something weve had to do with all the tenants so far. basic questions were asked, do you have work, what do you earn, have you a bad credit history etc etc. Same as usual, the agent collects all the data, and says hell pass it on to the owner and get back to me.

Called me 2 hours later to say the owner was not willing to give me permission to sublet the flat for the following reasons.

1. There has been too much change in the house, and they would much prefer to have people who stay for longer periods.
2. They feel the apartment is too small for a couple (ca 45m2)
3. As my girlfriend and i have split up (very recently), theyre still unsure if they wish to continue the contract with me (although shes still legally in the contract and has no problem staying in the contract)
4. They feel that the couple will probably look for something bigger after a couple of months.

Please understand, this permission to sublet was always given, and apart from jokes like "what are you doing to these people ha ha ha" they never expressed any problem or reservations about us subletting or the people we sublet to.

So, this leaves me...

1. Ive had to tell my friends (only known them a week, but theyre already mates) that they cant legally stay in the flat, despite nearly killing ourselves dragging all their stuff up and decorating. theyve also just done all the registration stuff, bank accounts etc. Shes starting work on monday and REALLY doesnt need this. technically theyd have to leave right now. but thats just not happening.

2. I cant honestly expect them to pay for the rent for the next month. apart from the fact that i have no legal right to take rent for that apartment, they could i suppose be removed from the flat by the authorities at any time, and you cant ask someone to pay for that.

3. Which leaves me paying the entire rent for both apartments for the next 3 months (kündigungsfrist 3 monate) PLUS having to pay them their deposit back (cash or bank transfer - it doesnt matter. their money) out of my own pocket. ok, when i leave the apartment ill get the deposit back. but for the next 3 months im paying double rent. again, itll be paid, no questions asked.

4. I probably have to leave my home of 3 years. i like my flat.

I find it monumentally unfair that they didnt say something to me about their concerns before i arranged to sublet again. they have the legal right to do what theyre doing, but its just unmenschlich.

basically, 3 decent people are going to be fucked around because of this, and none of us have done anything to deserve it.

sad.gif

edit: edited the repeated misspelling of apartment. tell me if i missed any.
LeChamois
Sorry to hear about this but nobody can kick any of you out right away. Your mates can stay as visitors for up to 6 weeks and you don't need anybody's permission.
berny
im going to need a legal source for that. thanks.

b
MonksTown
Legal opinion: Mieterverein.

It is shit but they want long term tennants.
berny
i know, i am a long term tenant. i planned on staying here for at least a couple of years. now im looking for somewhere else (or trying to see if theyll rent one apartment to me alone) and i dont like it. i was settled god damn it. :/

i get their concerns, i understand completely where theyre coming from, just if theyd have told me a month ago it wouldnt have hurt as bad.
sarabyrd
Being in a similar situation myself I understand the landlord's attitude. My sub-tenant is moving out after only six months and I was trembling when I called the management company.
Your lease probably says subletting requires the landlord's written permission and that you have no right to that permission. I suggest in your case that your new friends become Nachmieter in the part of your contract covering their living space as main tenants and do their best to convince your landlord that the size is sufficient for their needs. 45m2 is quite enough for two people, I should think.
That lets you and your ex out of that part of the contract at least.
How about you, the agent, the friends and the management company all sitting down for a cup of coffee and a reasonable chat and drawing up an acceptable contract, possibly even limiting the sub-lease to one year with option for another year.
Good luck!
LeChamois
QUOTE (berny @ Aug 31 2007, 3:57 pm) *
im going to need a legal source for that. thanks.

b

"Bis zu 6 Wochen kann ein Wohnraum untervermietet werden, ohne dass der Vermieter dagegen etwas unternehmen kann."

"Voraussetzung für ein Untermietverhältnis ist, dass die Überlassung des Mietgebrauchs an einen Dritten auf (gewisse) Dauer angelegt ist. Für eine Übergangszeit von circa 6 Wochen hat der Mieter ein vertraglich nicht ausschliessbares Recht, Besucher in seine Wohnung aufzunehmen, wenn die Wohnung damit nicht überbelegt ist. Eine kurzfristige Überbelegung schadet allerdings auch nicht. Ein Zeitraum von drei Monaten überschreitet allerdings die normale Besuchsdauer."

Oberlandesgericht Hamm; Rechtsentscheid; Wohnungswirtschaft und Mietrecht 1982, S. 319; Landgericht Mannheim; Wohnungswirtschaft und Mietrecht 1973, S. 5; Amtsgericht Dortmund Wohnungswirtschaft und Mietrecht 1982, S. 86; Amtsgericht Frankfurt; Wohnungswirtschaft und Mietrecht 1995, S. 396

The source is a bit old but the basic facts have not changed.
eurovol
QUOTE (berny @ Aug 31 2007, 3:46 pm) *
1. There has been too much change in the house, and they would much prefer to have people who stay for longer periods.

My number 1 German pet peeve next to the Autobahn rules of life and shopping. This idea of permanency is killing the economy. Being first and risk aversion is definitely a German thing.
planetmoni
i know landlords who don't want longterm tenants.
most landlords don't see flats as means to income (at least that's the impression i get) therefore changing tenants just mean more paperwork.
YorkshireLad6
Possible reasoning from the Landlord:
QUOTE (berny @ Aug 31 2007, 3:46 pm) *
the owner was not willing to give me permission to sublet the flat for the following reasons.
.
2. They feel the apartment is too small for a couple (ca 45m2)

QUOTE (LeChamois @ Aug 31 2007, 4:29 pm) *
"Für eine Übergangszeit von circa 6 Wochen hat der Mieter ein vertraglich nicht ausschliessbares Recht, Besucher in seine Wohnung aufzunehmen, wenn die Wohnung damit nicht überbelegt ist.
LeChamois
Bayerische Gaststättenverornung §18 (2)
"Einbettzimmer müssen mindestens 8m², Zweibettzimmer mindestens 12m² groß sein."
Hutcho
Touché..
YorkshireLad6
Huh? There's a big difference between an apartment to live in and an hotel room to overnight in...
Hutcho
Ahh.. Touché
eurovol
Lots of people live in hotels too you know.
sarabyrd
YL6 has a point there but our friend berny must not accept payment (officially, of course). By then I am sure that the landlord will have cooled down, D.V.
MollyB
Dude, Mieterverein. I've looked up a lot of literature on this stuff but don't have the references right now. There are a couple of Mietrecht links on the blog linked in my profile, but PM me if you like. It seems hard to find a good lawyer for this stuff.

Dreading heading home, b/c my sub-letter thinks I'm moving out tonight. I'm pretty sure I'm on solid ground, but she's completely sure that she's right and that I'm evil.

Hang in there.
LeChamois
QUOTE (YorkshireLad6 @ Aug 31 2007, 6:42 pm) *
Huh? There's a big difference between an apartment to live in and an hotel room to overnight in...

Umm... but that would be common sense, I thought you were a lawyer tongue.gif
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