TT logo
You are viewing a low-graphics version of this page. Click the headline to view full version:

Legal threats received after I "slurred" a company

Am I not allowed to simply voice my opinions?

Toytown Germany > Discussion forum > Germany-wide > Life in Germany
sparty
I've had a bad experience with a company and expressed their dishonesty in a letter. The last paragraph of the respose was this:

"Es ist uns unverständlich, wie Sie solche unwahre Behauptungen aufstellen können. Sollten Sie weiterhin diese Äußerungen zum Ausdruck bringen, werden wir die Angelegenheit unseren Anwalt übergeben und gegen Sie wegen Rufschädigung klagen."

So basically he says that according to these people, I have said things that are not true, and if I spread the word to other people, they will hunt me with their lawyer for slur/slander on their reputation.

Ehm, don't I have freedom of speech and being able to tell everyone to avoid business with these people without being prosecuted???

... I won't tell (yet) who they are... I might get prosecuted tongue.gif
Elfenstar
oh no, is this another TT advertiser?
Welsh man
typical Germany. Of course you have the freedom of speech but when they think you could somehow damage their image then they tend to over do it. My experience so far it is just like a barking dog that does not bite if you know what I mean. wink.gif
sparty
No. Nothing to do with TT, just a money-grubbing, lying, dirtbag of a company.
sarabyrd
You can honestly recount your experience with this company and give your opinion that you felt that their dealing wasn't fair and square and you would not recommend them as business partners. I would, however, avoid such words as "fraud", "criminal" or anything that has a legal meaning in German.
EDIT: For example "misrepresentation" is the same thing as "lying" but they can't really prosecute you for using the word. "Unzutreffende Aussagen" sounds good.
BadDoggie
What sarabyrd said. You'll want to throw in phrases like "in what looks to me" and "from my perspective". How about a link to what you wrote?

woof.
Keydeck
And try to find a decent German equivalent for "You can tongue-bathe my taint" wink.gif
sparty
I can't find a translation for that on LEO... tongue.gif
Tomasino
So which company was it?
silty1
QUOTE (sparty @ Aug 30 2007, 9:46 am) *
No. Nothing to do with TT, just a money-grubbing, lying, dirtbag of a company.

whose name is? C'mon, don't be a tease. You could ask (cough) someone else to sign in under another name and announce it that way.
Carm
I had a similar situtation, I wrote a letter of complaint to an Austrian Ski Rental Place and got a threatening letter back from them. I was shocked and did show a patient that is a lawyer, and she said if I ever get another letter from them, then she would represent me in court.
I never did hear again from them, but I do by word of mouth tell people not to rent from this company when I am on day trips with the ski club. It wasn't Intersport- they have always been good to me.
Adi
This is nothing to do with 'stupid German restrictions' on freedom of speech. Try printing unfounded accusations in the US and you'd also be looking at a multi-billion lawsuit as well. You cannot go around making public written assertions you know to be false or which you cannot back up with facts - that's libellous. I don't know the specifics of your case and whether or not you do have 'the facts', but I would recommend that you don't make anything public if you don't have the evidence to back your claims and a lawyer on retainer.
wahoo
Of course not. But we're not talking about slander or libel here...just a bad experience with a company. One is well within their rights to share their bad experience with others.
Adi
Of couse you can share -> provided that all claims can be backed by facts.
Katrina
Sure - but there is a difference between these two sentences:
"Company X lies and cheats with fraudulent business practices as I have had business dealings with them." (a statement of fact, in a privileged context due to the business relationship, e.g. your manager saying you're shit at your job carries more weight than some bloke down the pub, defamation)
"I found that Company X did not meet my expectations, I wasn't satisfied by any means and won't recommend them further." (an expression of opinion and not defamation)
If you can't see the difference, you're better off keeping stumm.
Adi
And what's that last stupid comment supposed to mean? Nowhere did the OP say what statements they had made and nowhere did I say the OPs comments weren't correct. Clearly you have to be careful about how you word your claims and that is what I said. It is also obvious from the company's response (wie Sie solche unwahre Behauptungen aufstellen können) that they believe the claims have been formulated in such a way as to be not based on fact. Of course, they can be blustering but we don't know that.
Katrina
That last comment isn't stupid - the original poster is a pal of mine and will know the context in which it was meant. Thanks.
Adi
Then, to avoid confusion, send a PM instead of a cryptic comment in a public forum.
butterbean
someone forgot their wheaties today.
Adi
Good grief Charlie Brown... Let's break out the boxing gloves and see if we can all throw our toys out of the pram.
butterbean
oh the irony.
hams
Knowing the circumstances, I really think that a letter should be written to the regulatory body dealing with this particular profession stating the events as they unfolded and your disastisfaction with the company's dishonourable conduct and that of its representative.
DDBug
Who who who???
HellesAngel
Financial advisor or lawyer?
wahoo
If everyone really must know, it was a real estate agent.

Edit: I didn't want to post that before because I wanted to keep the thread on topic and avoid one of those "well of course all maklers are lying bastards" rants wink.gif
Lorelei
What did the company do?
Lifeisabuffet
QUOTE (wahoo @ Sep 3 2007, 11:57 am) *
I wanted to keep the thread on topic and avoid one of those "well of course all maklers are lying bastards" rants

Why? Aren't they all lying bastards? tongue.gif
Katrina
QUOTE (Adi @ Sep 3 2007, 11:18 am) *
Then, to avoid confusion, send a PM instead of a cryptic comment in a public forum.

*looks at moderator list*
Quite.

wahoo & sparty, unless you are prepared to have no end of grief, a small re-jig of your phrasing can get your message across without causing you legal issues.
Because even if you are correct, their lawyers are probably better.
All rights come with responsibilities - freedom of speech also implies a responsibility towards content.
If you are not prepared to fight the legal fight, get clever instead.
Hopefully that's clearer now.
wahoo
Have already consulted the miterverein who have told me, basically, that the makler is full of it. I am going to bite the bullet and pay the ass hole, but the threat is certainly not going to prevent me sharing my negative experience with anyone I ever meet who mentions they are flat-hunting.

@Katrina- you are definitely correct about re-jigging my issue with them. I am not too worried anymore...I think I know how to phrase what it is that I need to say.

Thank you for all the input!
wahoo
"Regarding the last paragraph of your letter: you have not frightened me. I have the right to discuss my negative experience with your company, and legally you cannot prevent me from doing so. Nothing I say constitutes slander or libel, I am only telling the truth of my dealings with you. If I am the only customer to have been disappointed with the service your company provided, then you have no need to worry. "

How's that?
georgiagirl
I'd leave out the last sentence as I think it weakens your position.
wahoo
Good point gg. Thanks!
Adi
QUOTE (Katrina @ Sep 3 2007, 1:23 pm) *
*looks at moderator list*
Quite.

wahoo & sparty, unless you are prepared to have no end of grief, a small re-jig of your phrasing can get your message across without causing you legal issues.
Because even if you are correct, their lawyers are probably better.
All rights come with responsibilities - freedom of speech also implies a responsibility towards content.
If you are not prepared to fight the legal fight, get clever instead.
Hopefully that's clearer now.

That's what I said at the start of this thread. Welcome back.
You are viewing a low fidelity version of this page. Click to view the full page.