Hating Germany

I'm a Brit. Parents are from Africa and I was born and raised in the UK. I've lived in a few other countries: namely America, France and Spain. I moved to Berlin in February of this year with a man I was in love with and thought I would marry. We since broke up. I absolutely HATE it here!

Part of the reason I hate it is the racism. I've experienced occasional racism in England, America, France and Spain - occasional being the operative word. In Germany, the racism is constant and overt. I actually get looked at some times as though I am a lump of dog shit.

My dilemma is that I have a dog who is very attached to me - and vice versa. She is a lovely little thing but she is very highly strung indeed and she's used to having me around 24-7 (I work from home). In order to go home to England, I'd have to have her put in quarantine for 6 months. HAve any of you here every done that? Did your pet survive the quarantine and did it still know you when it came out?

I've also learned that there is a way of getting my dog a blood test (she's already been rabies vaccinated) and then waiting 6 months for the results and then being able to go back to England without the need for her to go into quarantine. Anyone know where I can get that blood test? Cheers. Not sure I can stand another 6 months here without topping myself though...

Sorry it's so bad for you. It is possible to take your dog over without it physically being put into quarantine, however as you say, the process with vaccinations and blood tests is still 6 months long, so you wouldn't be able to leave right away.

Here are some topics on the process. Best thing is go to your vet ASAP, get a PETs passport, and start the process. He/she should know what to do.
Returning Pets to UK.
Flying Pets to UK.

Thanks. If I'm gonna stay for another 6 months, I think I will look into trying out another city. Perhaps Munich?

Hi there and welcome to TT. Firstly I'm sorry that it didn't work out for you here and that you hate it here. Very understandable being here on your own without friends or family. Regarding your question I am actually not sure, but I think there are enough people on this forum who are able to answer your question.

All the best for ya.

I, too, am sorry you are having such a terrible time in Germany. Munich is a very nice place to live.

I am absolutely sure that you have encountered racism here, but just one tip: every time people look at you like you are a piece of shit is not necessarily because you are of African heritage. When I first came to Germany I also got what I interpreted as horrible looks and wondered how on earth they knew I was a foreigner. In Germany people look, even stare, at others, and don´t smile. They do it to everyone. I´ll bet there are times when the reason for looks are NOT racist. Some men may even be thinking how hot you are -- to a non-German, though, this is a very difficult look to identify.

Thanks. Next time a stranger's mouth drops open at the sight of me (this happens every other day) I'll have to boost my confidence by telling myself it's because I'm so hot and not because I'm so obviously an outsider. LOL!

If you experiencing such problems in Berlin, I personally think that Munich will be 5 times worse. It's much more conservative here, and not many black people at all.

Racism in Munich.

Have you tried going to some TT events in Berlin?

Edit: Agreed, staring isn't necessarily a racist thing here. Take a look at this thread, it's really funny when you can relate to such experiences!

Staring Germans.

Oh, and maybe you want to search this forum on other such discussions; most of them will already have been written about and may make you feel better!

get me, I am sorry that Germany appears so negative to you based on your experience. If you can work from home and are not fettered to Berlin trying a different city might be an option until you can return to the UK. Hamburg may appeal to you, being a harbor it is more cosmopolitan than most German cities. Boister your self-confidence and stare right back, that'll learn 'em.

Thanks for the recommendation re Hamburg!! I'm completely open to new ideas. I suppose I could even move to another European city since it's much easier to transport my dog within continental europe, right? So I'm going to try to put a positive spin on the 6 months till my dog's UK-ready. I'll look into Hamburg, Munich and maybe Barcelona as well.

You may encounter racism where ever you go in the world. So why run from one place when you may encounter this same kind of ignorance in the next place. Here's a very interesting article from the Guardian about how "poverty" is the new black addressing racism in the UK and globally. Although the article is a few years old, it's still relevant today. http://www.guardian.co.uk/globalisation/st...,538225,00.html

OP said in the original post they've already lived in several different countries. Surely she has first-hand experience of how racism differs from country to country, no?

Oh for the sight of brown faces and the smell of curry...

I used to live in the Gulf where the first thing we asked each other was "where do you come from?"

I love "foreign" people. they are fascinating people, simply how they got to sit in front of me is a fascinating story. I once sat on a plane next toan Irayqi Turk who told me how he spent five days sleeping on a pony through the Kurdish region of Iraq to be free.

A few weeks ago at our local playground two black guys appeared with Djembe and drums. I got talking to them. One was from Ghana. Did they know Nana Tuffour? Of course and when I said I jnew him their eyes lit up and we talked. Wonderful moment.

However don't fopr rget many Germans travel and it may be they also think you are tasty! Don't view it as negative! Enjoy it!

But on the other side we white peoople get our share of discrimination. After a while you aill chill and realise that Germans mostlöy apart from a few nice ones you meet just arent nice. Take it easy.

J.

get_me_out_of_he.

If you ever do come to northern Bavaria, your dog is welcome to hang out with my dog

I can't offer any words on the racial thing. I get shit for being an American, but it's not bad. I can't imagine what you have to go through. If you ever do get this way, you're more than welcome.

If they look, you can look back, too! Just don't shy away and don't get nervous. Everybody likes to peep. It's a human thing. I am often being looked at because of my long curly hair, for example. White or not white, they look. I look back. Sometimes I do like a monkey: start imitating them till they realize they are doing something stupid. Other times I just open up my mouth largely till they stop staring and shy away themselves. It's funny...

There is always something to look at, about each and every colour and person, if we take it like that... Hum.
My African friend always says... "they can just kiss me in my black a%%, all around,if they like, boo!". We laugh a lot at it. Sometime we play the black-and-white show in the women's sauna: we start talking louder and louder, till everybody is really staring at us. (The thing is, I have a VERY white skin, and she has a VERY black one. We realized we look great together, and once we start out, we can rock and laugh out whole Germany for all the staring, racism and "beobacht"-ing)...

Don't take it to heart, Berlin lady...
BTW, referring to thread title... "hate" is a waste of mental energy, nothing more. Only the stupid hate.

Thanks. Might take you up on it one day!

Do so. It's not a false promise. I'd be happy to have you here.

theoretically you also need a pet passport for intra-EU travel (but not as strict as the PETS scheme for UK entry) but in practice you can move freely within Schengen (western Europe) without having to show the pet passport (in the same way that you dont have to show your own passport) - so yes it should be a bit easier

it reminds me a story I heard from a guy who lived/worked short-term in Germany. To him, it seemed everybody stared at him, women, men, youngsters, seniors. He was uncomfortable with other staring when he was taking subway even he thought they were just curious about his yellow skin. And then he started to look back, and it developed to that he searched and looked around, caught and "defeat" others' staring with a teasing smile on his face once he stepped into some places where stood lots of people(who were doing nothing but staring).

He felt quite happy with the game he played with himself.

well, tell it to me... I´m an asian living in east berlin area... I know better... I have a neighbour who avoid seeing me (sometimes I think that I am medusa) and stuffs like that... and I kinda get used to it now

I agree with Urbanangel that Munich is probably worse Berlin due to the conservative and unfriendly nature of the Bavarians.

I personally would highly recommend Cologne! Fantastic city, wonderful nightlife and friendly open people (plus some good Irish pubs and lots of expats). I lived and worked in Cologne for 3 and a half years but moved here two years ago as my Dutch boyfriend got a good job offer in Munich. We both loved Cologne and we hate Munich and have spent the last year trying to get out of the place! We are both very open and speak German fluently but found it so hard to make friends here (we never had any problems getting to know people in Cologne and had a large circle of friends, both Germans and expats). We are moving to Holland in 3 weeks and are both absolutely delighted to leave Munich.

For me, the most open German city is Cologne and I have some fantastic memories of my time there. I was good friends with a black girl from London in Cologne and she never complained of encountering racism there. I wish you all the best and hope that things pick up for you soon!

I love the look of Munich, the things to do and having the mountains so close. However, I totally agree about how 'closed' the society is here. Even London was more friendly! I was planning on living here a long time, now I'm looking to move asap.

Where are you moving to next?

I'm very sorry you've had that experience, get_me_out_of_here. When I first moved here, I found Germany a very unfriendly place too (stares, rude service in shops, etc.), and I'm white! Have seen racism and heard others speaking about witnessing it here, and hate to think what it must be like having to cope with that too. I can fully understand your decision to leave. Hope you can find a solution for moving your dog. This thread is about travelling to the US with a pooch, but might be relevant Air travel with a dog to and from the U.S.. Hang in there and good luck!

Thanks!! Maybe I should schedule a mini holiday in Cologne at some point in the coming months to check it out for myself.

Make sure you have a look at Bonn while your down that way it's great, fantastic atmosphere.

Next ? Hehe, depends on work. Was aiming for San Francisco since that's where my companies HQ is... but rumour has it, I might end up in Sydney...

Can't complain, either would be awesome (although Sydney's a bit far from ski slopes!)

@Fuchs66

I am a Brit living in Bonn. Before I go off on too much of a rant how I find the people unfriendly, humourless and boring, maybe you can enlighten me what is good about this place? If you are a foreigner who has found that this place is liveable I would love to get some tips to find out if I really am doing something wrong. OK if you have a family and don't have to interact with other people, maybe it is OK, but otherwise this place seems like Antarctica without the friendly penguins!

@get_me_out_of_here... run run run. don't look back, Germany and the Germans don't get any better with time. And if you speak and understand German, like I do, they get even worse. You only get one life, don't waste part of it in Germany.

I welcome any constructive points that prove the opposite to be true.

Sounds like Germany sucks outside of Munich. Here however, it's pretty close to perfect in every way.

I enjoyed Hamburg, Bremen is a lovely little town and Augsburg was cool too.

I hated Laupheim with a passion and Donauwoerth is bloody awful too.

Of them all, Munich is definitely the Jewel in the Crown of Germany for me and i would rather be here than anywhere else.

You're joking aren't you? I had a great time in Bonn, the locals were extremely friendly and there was always something to do, I lived down at the Rheinaue almost in the summer. Was in with the student crowd there, always parties to visit, dont know maybe we just have different expectations of a town, can you give me some concrete reasons why it was so crap there for you. As for family I was there with my (then) girlfriend and that was it, was always out and about. Also lots to do in the surrounding area, Cologne isn't far away and the Rhein and Mosel valleys are brilliant and not just for the wine.

In my experience, getting absorbed in student life in a foreign country is completely different than going to a country alone to work and make your own way.

OK I guess if you were in with the student crowd, even Bonn can be cool. Hell, if they built a Uni in Antarctica, that would be cool too! (metaphorically and literally )

But I work and have to deal with normal Bonner people, and that is a different kettle of fish I can tell you! Lowest concentration of smiles per face in the western world! Although there is a lot of competition for that title around here!

I've been 25+ years on the NorthWest side of Hamburg & life is good!
The first few years I was alone which was initially hard but I have some good German friends.
Then this German girl who I married & now we have family...

I don't exclude moving at some time but it would not be on grounds of "hating" Germany...

The first few years??? Well in some places things are OK from the start.

Yeah I do agree that if you are in a relationship, it isn't as bad being here. It would be the same if you moved to Timbuktu.

I do have some good friends here in Germany, but I find a distance remains. There are no invites to go and spend Xmas together or Easter. There is a distance which I personally find difficult.

I vote we start a new thread:

"Why am I here when I hate this damned country so much?"

Are you planning on leaving ASAP?

I have a dark-skinned Indian friend who lives in Munich and absolutely adores it. He claims to have experienced no racism. His only gripe is that he finds it expensive but then of course it is compared to India...

aren't ya all forgetting her first paragraph...she came here because she was in love and wanted to marry this man...and it went pear shaped. That could be her state of mind...hating this place because it reminds her of her failed relationship?

IMO if I had a falling out with my spouse, I'd leave germany so fast, everybody's head would spin. (My spouse is not german, he's british). Not that I hate it here, I have roots elsewhere, so why stay here? If the language and culture is so different, why stick around? Suggestions for moving to another place in germany just costs more money. And then what if she didn't like it there, another move?

Moving is tough enough...and taking a risk like she did and then have it fail, makes everything so raw. I'd suggest she move back to the UK and see what the rules are for the dog. Then make that move just once. No sense in moving to another part of germany. eh?

I wasn't studying myself, my GF was a student there the first year we were together and we sort of stuck with the haunts and the young crowd there (I'm a relatively old fart myself). I never worked directly in Bonn so couldn't comment on that, but I have worked in Germany since 91 and cant say I have had real problems so far.

There's probably some truth in what you're saying. But I'm usually a happy go lucky resourceful person and it's unlike me to let a failed relationship sour me to a country or lifestyle. Germany just seems so...cold. I don't mean the weather...

I am gonna have to stay here (or elsewhere in continental europe) for 6 months before i can take the pooch to england. So my plan is simply to make the most of that 6 months. It might make sense to just up sticks and move to another city for that period rather than grow more and more miserable in berlin. I called my vet in England to ask advice about the dog and he suggested I sedate the dog and smuggle her on the ferry! He must be nuts. His theory was that he knows she's not got Rabies (he's treated her, vaccinated her etc since she was a newborn) and that she's small enough to stash inside a ventilated rucksack. Who knows what my vet has been smoking lately, LOL

The staring in Germany is outrageous I agree. My dad is german and we always have to tell him to quit staring at people, but he has never meant it in a harmful way, just his way of looking at things. And for the lack of smiles, they definatly need to learn here that a smile and a please/thank you now and again wouldn't hurt, but I prefer when people tell me what they feel honestly, unlike many places where they have a smile on their face but are inwardly planning on shoving hot pokers in your eyes.

When I was out shopping earlier a woman walked into me in the street. Obviously it was an accident - she wasn't looking where she was going. I gave her an apologetic smile, even though it wasn't my fault. Instead of saying sorry or smiling or whatever, she gave me a steely glare and looked at me like I was at fault and some kind of monster. I wish these fuckers would lighten up.

Next time, go back and trip her up on purpose! Maybe she just needs to learn the difference. But the other day I got yelled at for not saying "thank you and good evening" by three big guys who were walking down the pavement and very generously made room for me to pass. Germans are anal.

Ahem, first post on Toytown - oh the pressure! Have been reading TT forums often since I moved to Munich 3 months or so ago and I have to say - I'm not quite sure I live in the same country as the rest of you?? I read so many negative posts that I'm gobsmacked most of the time! I have not come across anything along the lines of what gets posted here - in fact, the exact opposite!

I find the people incredibly friendly, a bit curious sometimes but nothing to get so worked up about! The food is great, the standard of living is unbelievably high, people respect each other, it's clean everywhere, the public transport is amazing! Even the staring thread I find hard to understand - I just smile at people on the trains and 90% of them will either smile back or start a little chat! Only thing I can moan about if I have to is the high tax - but even that does not upset me to the level that some people seem to reach on here! I absolutely love living here and even my husband says there will be no going back!

I'm working my backside off to learn the language as quickly as I can because I accept that I cannot work here if my German is not good enough. But hey, I think it's perfectly reasonable for Germans to expect you to be able to speak their language, in their country!!

So can someone please explain to me why so many people seem to hate it here? Because every negative post just makes me want to ask: 'If you hate it so much here, why don't you just go back where you came from??'

Most people don't hate it here, but there are things that annoy us, or we think are weird or stupid. This is a great place to have a nice little moan, you shouldn't take it all too seriously, after all it would be quite dull on here if all we did was post how wonderful things are here all the time. Glad to hear you're enjoying it so far.

So are you saying people are moaning purely for the sake of moaning?!

So it's ok for you to be rude and not say thanks, but not for the Germans, nice double standards!

I can speak for everyone here and tell you exactly what everyone hates. It's the shit shopping hours and complete closures on Sunday, this is the root cause of EVERYONE'S complaints. If shops could open longer and on Sundays you'll find the Neo-Nazis would disappear, the grass will be greener and the beer will taste better. FACT

I cannot say that the shopping hours here have cost me a single tear in the past...

No you can't, I'm quite happy with shopping hours here and don't want them to open any later and definitely not on Sundays. I don't want Germany to be turned into a facsimile of The USA, like the UK is becoming thank you very much. What I do want is the supermarkets to improve their quality.