Tipping in bars

I work in a bar that alot of expats come to, especially to watch the football. Does none of the expats realise that in germany you are meant to tip! Most of the bars that show the premiership and so on pay bad wages and the staff count on the fact that people will tip. I know tipping is involuntary but come on! €2.90 for a drink and expats can't even give the €3. I know alot of expats that have been here for a long time and they still don't tip and it annoys me. We are providing free sky football and so on for your benefit. The least you can do is show that our service is appreciated. I know most of the expats here have good jobs (or you wouldn't be here) why can't you show your thanks for the staff who provide you with such good service. Yes a lot of you are going to say... Get another job!!! but it's not that easy!!! We work our nuts off for you with no reward. Don't forget the staff do don't make the prices!!! We just want to earn a living like anybody else.

The subject of tipping has been covered in great detail Tipping policy in bars and restaurants and on other threads.

First off let me say that I always tip unless the service is particularly dire. The same is true for pretty much every other person I know here, so your whole point is negated from the word go as far as I am concerned. Personally I've worked for 6 years in the bar trade and during that time pretty much survived off the tips I made as the pay was so low.


This sentence above really, really grates on me. Perhaps you don't quite mean it the way it comes across, but if your view is that customers are meant to tip then you are going about the business with a very bad attitude. My experience of Munich, 8+ years, is that expats will usually tip if the service is sufficiently good. American expats in particular will pretty much always tip regardless as that is more prevalent in their culture.


No, you are providing Sky football in order to attract customers into the bar. It has absolutely nothing to do with the level of service which is provided by the bar and wait staff.


You are working your nuts off for yourself so that you personally will have an income. Don't try to make it sound like you are slaving away for the good of society. As you said yourself, if you were in a position to get a different job then you probably would.

If you wanna bitch, why dont you name the bar?

Nowhere in your rant did you justify receiving tips in the first place. Maybe your customers aren't tipping because they're not happy with the service? On the rare occasion that I don't tip, I expect it to be taken as a sign of my discontent.

Watch out with generalizations! Anyone unhappy with the service will not tip, even Germans. If you bear a grudge against paying guests in general and convey your attitude chances are they will see you as surly and unfriendly and evaluate your service accordingly. Adage of the day: It takes a smile to make a smile.

Please do list where you work. I would love to find an expat bar that serves beers for €2,90!!! I will give you at least €3,50.

I can understand visitors and tourists not knowing or not being sure how to go about tipping. There are a lot about at the moment. And they are not ex-pats. But look like them.
But anyone who has been here some time knows the system and would feel bad about not tipping. Even if the service was bad! I've seen people complain to me about the service and then feel too embarrassed to tell the waitress and hold the tip back.

So your story is not the norm here.

We go out in a big group of expats and almost everyone tips, but sometimes it's true that the service really just doesn't deserve it.

I tend to over-tip so people don't think I'm a cheap, ill-mannered American .

€2,90 for a beer? What size?

I'm an expat and I tip but, as someone else here has already mentioned, if the service is bad, no tip. Isn't that what tipping is all about?

I hate tipping. To me it is like a bribe to do something you should already be doing. I say pay a decent wage and add the cost to the prices accordingly. Then and only then would tipping be meaningful as it wouldn't be expected of the customer to have to bribe you.

I know alot of the TTers tip, i'm not having a go at them. Its just a topic i hope all the other people read.

"Does none of the expats realise that in germany you are meant to tip!"

In almost ever travel book I've read, it said that tipping is not customary in Europe. In fact, as an American, I have tried tipping 3 or 4 Euros after a 20 Euro dinner and have had money given back because the waiter/waitress was uncomfortable with the amount. I have found that rounding up or giving 1 Euro is sufficient. I never tip bartenders until the end of the night and if it's a long night, I usually drop them a 5'er before I leave. They are always very happy about that and know if they are just cordial the next time I come in, I'll do it again.

If the service is very good and enjoyable, I insist on giving at least 20 percent. If it's normal, I round up. If it's bad, I don't give them shit.

If you want to make money in your business, watch the movie 'Cocktail' and move to the Bahamas. Service at most German pubs and bars and clubs is horrible. You're pouring beers and mixing drinks. Any college kid in the US can do this after freshman year. As another poster said, your bar offers games to bring people in. It shouldn't be an extra charge and nobody should feel obligated to pay for it. That is why they are there in the first place.

let me guess; were they American guidebooks? You do realise that "Europe" is not one country, don't you? You do know that each country has its own customs and practices. Tipping practices are certainly not the same here as they are in Britain. Or France. Or Italy.

And customs change as well. Whilst rounding up to the nearest DM might have been acceptable 40 years ago, no one today would consider that an acceptable tip on a €20 bill here in Germany.

Fascinating, but how about you answer some of the points raised by the people who responded to your post? For example, could it be that people aren't tipping you because they think you're shit?

Customs change throughout Germany as well. Munich is not representative of all of Germany.



You're usual suspectness is showing.

what the fuck are you banging on about eurovol?

I know the difference. And all I did was relate what I had read in Frommers and some other guides before coming over. Yes, they were in English, but the books I bought in Fairbanks, AK were published in England and slanted towards the British. I can scan the publisher pages and show you if you want.

I have been given money back while tipping more than 2 Euros on numerous occasions. In the States, I'll tip 10 bucks on a 30 dollar meal easy. It is different over here. In my experience, Germans accept tips more than Austrians or people in Poland or the Czech. I don't know about other places since I haven't personally been there.

If my Rechnung is 12.50 Euro, do you find it bad that I round up to 14 or 15? It depends on how the service was, of course, but I mostly hang out with Germans and I usually end up tipping more than them.

Ditto. If the bill was €12.50 and I round up to €14 or €15, my German friends are astonished at how much I'm tipping.

One, we have had this discussion. Munich is not representative of all of Germany and tipping here is no where near what you are claiming it is or should be. It is called pocket or drink money, not salary. In many parts of Germany tipping too much is considered an insult to the server. You are basically saying that you have so much money that you can just give it away to someone with such a lowly job. In Munich, because of tourism and expats, there are a few places that not only expect it, but then post a thread about it and complain that customers aren't paying them enough.

Two, explain your American comment and how it has any relevance whatsoever to the thread other than expressing your typical dig at Americans.

The day you stop treating people like shit in the bars, you will get more tips.

Indead tipping practices vary throughout Europe. For example, I was told that in Italy it is considered bad style and condescending to leave the change (coins) on the table as a tip even if one only had a coffee. Instead, one should round up/tell the waiter to keep the change.

In Germany, ten percent is considered a generous tip, many people tip meagerly.

one: it is not called salary in English either, its called a tip or a gratuity.

two: tell me exactly where in my post I said "how much it should be". I stated that times change and rounding to the nearest Euro is no longer an acceptable tip for good service. I never stated what I thought was a good tip.

three: i probably know more about tipping practices in the rest of Germany than you, having lived in five different cities in four different Bundesländer

four: i keep hearing tales of waiting staff refusing tips but the only time I've ever witnessed it was when a tight arsed git left a tip of 10 cents after rounding up to the nearest euro

five: please give me examples of a "typical dig". I called you out on this in a previous thread when you accused me of making anti american statements and asked you to provide quotes. You failed to do this because you won't find any, something another poster on the thread also stated. Don't confuse disliking dickheads with anti americanism. my comment about the guidebook wasn't a "dig" but an obervation that american published guidebooks do tend to over generalise and lump European customs together.

As an American, I tend to overtip (I used to be a waitress and earned less than 2 dollars per hour and depended on the tips)...

Are you sure the people who stiff you aren´t Germans?

Thing is, you work your ass off for your salary, it´s a different system here. And if you make an extra effort and are actually friendly because you see it as part of doing a good, professional job rather than just to get extra cash, your customers will reward you.

"but an obervation that american published guidebooks do tend to over generalise and lump European custo"

Most of the guidebooks I've found over here are British and cater to them. Again, even the ones I bought in the States were the same way.

You act like all Americans don't realize that Europe isn't one big country. Well, you're wrong. Yes, since the Euro came in to place, we all thought Germany and France and Britain have joined forces and are now singing Kumbaya in Switzerland.

seems like the thread got modded.

Beaver, I know plenty of Americans that know European cultures better than many Europeans. Unfortunately your post didn't identify you as one of them but rather as one who makes sweeping generalisations about "Europe".

Yes, since the Euro came in to place, we all thought Germany and France and Britain have joined forces and are now singing Kumbaya in Switzerland.

off topic, but Beaver's line above i found hilarious!

as for the topic on hand- people tip. i'll admit sometimes in Munich i was horrible at tipping, but again sometimes the service was horrible too. There were other times i'd tip sufficiently. Since i'm crap at math and I could never remember what percent is the norm, I generally rounded up (plus a bit depending on the total) and prayed it was sufficient.
If that was low of me oops, but I figured it was better than nothing.

If staff are downright rude, they can fuck off if they are getting a tip. If however they are like magical beer fairies, they get tips every time!

If I fetch my own drink from the bar then I don't tip, if there's table service then I do. I've been here for more years than I care to count and that's always worked so far and nobody has told me "that's not the way we do it here".

Sweet! and your opinion means ... to me. Fugging' hypocrite.

Hang on, you say you know a lot of TTers tip and yet you posted a thread on TT saying why do expats not tip. Which other people, other than TTers, were you hoping would read a thread on TT? Sort your shit out. Either you have a problem with expats or you don't.


Ah, the beer fairy. I miss her.

The other expats from the "other side".lol.
I miss the beer fairy too. Haven't seen her for the past 4 months.

I was feeling especially generous and flush, so I tipped the Turkish delivery guy last week €7,50 on a €22,50 bill, and I thought the guy was gonna cry in gratitude. I like to tip. Tipping is fun. Unless it's a surly, ungrateful waitperson. But even then, I tip something. Just feels so rude not to. My American upbringing, I guess.

Karma Points have duly been noted.

i've only been over here for a few months and am still unsure about what's acceptable, so i tend to overtip. i feel it's better to leave a little too much than not enough. plus, americans have such a crap reputation anyways that maybe even though my german sucks i'll get brownie points for tipping well? maybe not, but it's worth a shot until my german improves lol.

How many of the expat bar waiters split tips or share tips with kitchen staff? I know that alot of kitchen staff get paid the same as the bar staff, or less, but the bar staff dont share tips with the kitchen staff. As a bar worker i would say a good percentage of tips do come from people who are tipping because of the meal.

I have excepted that some people do tip and like some mentioned enjoy tipping staff for the service and some people dont tip and proudly tell me why they wont tip because they should not have to for what ever reason... I have worked In germany for nealry two years as a bar man (some may say the guy on the other side of bar drinking more then the customers and avoiding work) and myself find it a weird situation when it comes to tipping. I worked for 7 yrs back in Sydney doing customer service roles and worked maybe if im lucky have enough tips in a 10 hr shift for a beer at the end of the night, not a big deal cause in I got $22 hr plus overtime, penealty rates for extra shifts public holidays, weekends etc. I got 5 weeks holidays and 2 weeks sick pay as well per year.

When I was a supervisor of a club in Sydney I got for a 40 hr 4 day week AU$50000 (about 30000 euro) plus job security uniform, training cert, I also got a security licence and 3 promotions and formal training in the back ground area of large clubs. I didnt have to be nice to customers for tips and it made life a shit load easier I gave good service because that was my job to do so.

Now in Munich (this is more of a standard answer rather then my own personall situation)

In munich alot of expat bar jobs are not real secure (person who started this thread loose their job from a ex well known Irish pub that closed) and no formal training is provided. When I started my job at the Outland I did a two hr trial and either had the job or not Unlucky for the pub I got the job and stayed. In short no training of such and unatractive pay can attract people from a non customer service background and have a pesonality of a English school teacher who just got excited because he or she just finished reading readers digest and wounder why they are unliked liked by other staff members and the locals think your weird and how the people coming in for dinner ordered the food to piss you off because you were just about to have a ciggi.

now back to the story..

In munich for a 6 hr shift on the weekend with out tips I would earn about 40 euro or so. for the same shift back home I would earn on a sunday with penalty rates about 100 euro plus I would get uniform allowence and could call in sick and still get paid or go on holidays and still get paid etc.. In Australia if I stay back a hr and stock up clean etc when the door shut I would be paid at a penalty rate for these duties, In Munich many pub staff do not get paid for completing these tasks.

I know quite a few regulars who dont tip but will bend over backwards for you when you need to move a table, or need to grab something down the road or understand that you have to serve a couple of people cause your busy etc... these guys are also appreciated. Its about being a barmen getting to know the people their names etc. like the tv show cheers.

At the end of the day for the people who do tip thank you very much It is appriciated especially when you say oh the food was great that cocktail was fantastic, thanks for changing around the tables etcc... e.g being nice. Believe it or not some customers are complete fuckwits and even if you do tip we end up being happy when you walk out the door. I hate It when you get people who think they can order you around and be complete jerks and then chuck a 2 euro coin at us like our life depended on it and how they made such a big change in our lifes.

This is a touchy subject and have had Toytown heated threads about this in the past and just look at the Outland review for how people (both sides) can be passionate about money leaving your hands.

May I suggest if your a regular and dont feel comfartable tipping (i know many guys who do this) every now and then (could be once a day, week, month) offer to buy the barmen, waiter a beer its a simular way but with a more of a hay mate how about one for yourself looks like your deserve it etc...

Aussie Steve

Is it legal for a bar man to drink while working?!

Edit: oh wait, we're in Germany. Duh.

I don't tip zombies!

I'd gladly tip in Germany if it made a fucking difference. Since it doesn't, I wont - Germans don't tip! Service is typically bad to horrible and bartenders here are doing no more than serving beers. Whilst in NYC, they are doing much more than just beers but cocktails where you do have to have some skill...

Nonetheless, I do find myself tipping at most bars if service is 1/2 decent... 1/2 decent here would be unacceptable back home.

@ Uncle Nick ooops ... some of them might be zombie waiters though – could explain the bad service.

No fair, zombies have much more personality

Simply not true. Where did you encounter Germans not tipping?

Well, those zombies are German, and we can be a bit dull.

There's more to being a pub barman than "just" pouring beers.

You're the guy who has to know the local news, what clubs are good to go to later, make newbie custoemrs feel welcome and want to come again, keep your regulars happy.
You got to deal with the drunk, stoned or just plain bloody obnoxious, You've got to advise people, matchmake, patch up love lives and when someone's future e becomes their be there as a shoulder to cry on. As Aussie Steve pointed out with the "Cheers" reference, there's a whole load of complex personal relationships going on.

If you are a regular in one of your locals its like an extension of your living room.
And that's different jto a hall where they don't give a toss about you and churn out 1000s of drinks a night.

Depending on how I am for cash, my mood, their mood etc, I'll round up a bit, say a couple of Euros.
But if I am at a bar, I don't see the need to go down the "American" route of splashing 20% or whatever around.

I've had at least 10 German friends tell me what someone else said earlier: if you're walking up to a bar and getting a bottle of beer (or even a glass), there's no reason to tip. If you're being served (i.e. the server has to walk to get to you) then you tip. So my questions are: a) was I told this because my friends fall into the 20 to 30 y.o. bracket and are thus cheap and uneducated, and have I been doing it wrong all the time?

As far as food goes, for my "standard tip" I usually round up to the nearest euro if it's under €10, and above that I round up and add the tens digit (i.e. a bill of €24,70 for example would get a total payment of €27, since I rounded up to €25 and added €2).

Once, when I was a newbie here a year ago, a very cute and friendly bartender turned down my tip, but that's the only time it's ever happened.

Um, when I go out to eat with them, drink with them, take a taxi with them or party with them.

Perhaps it's the kind of people you associate with?

Having worked in a bar in germany I can assure you that Germans do tip. Not as much as N. Americans but they definitely do tip.

You got the wrong friends then. Try to find new ones.

People would probably tip better if that little "Service is included in the prices" weren't at the bottom of every menu. Many folks assume that the staff actually is getting their cut and leave no tip or a lousy one "just in case".

I tip less than I used to before the gastronomy businesses started charging in Euros the same we used to pay in Marks.

Some of my favorite dishes went up 20% in price the same week.

It's official. I'm my mother.

FF

Some places tried that but market forces forced them to back down again.
In my 2 regular pubs I watched the price like a hawk and there was no change.

In fact many more places seem to have special deals than ever before.