Difficulties finding a decent job in Germany

Hi folks,

just wondering what experiences you have collected job wise and if you also have difficulties in finding a decent job and getting both feet on the ground.

I came to Germany as an qualified Comabt Medical Technician ex soldier . This was not recognised and accepted in Germany, so I worked here and there and in various companies which would offer a future. As I couldn't find this and was always treated as a person who has not learned a job I then decided to learn a new job. In 2002 I then successfully completed my IHK exams to a qualified Import/Export Clerk.

Then I thought, right here we go. Since then though I have only got short term contracts, mostly for 1 year extended for another year and then contract runs out and I'm on the market again looking for a new job (German law says that after 2 yrs companies have to offer you a long term contract). This has been going for a while and since the last 2 yrs I've been working for a so called Zeitarbeitsfirma. This is of course nothing that can satisfy me as the pay is low and you aren't really part of the companies where you go to to help out. Very frustating.

Is this only my story or anybody else out there with the same experience?

Welshman, I a curious, what exactly does a qualified Import/Export clerk do?

well basically I'm a clerk but additionaly I also know import /export terms for the shipment of goods. German term is Groß und Aussenhandelskaufmann. So clerk general basics plus other specialised topics.

oh obviously not an interresting topic. Then it does seem that this is just a single story.

You are living in NRW. They have some of the highest levels of unemployment in Germany. Perhaps you should consider moving to a different Bundesland where your chances of finding a job are better. My partner is German and from NRW and has long since given up hope of finding work there. His brother still lives there and also only gets contract work (he has a German PHD in computer science).

In general it is almost impossible for us foreigners to get our degrees or qualifications accepted in Germany. It's not happening only to you. Good luck!

Welshman, is your position part of the core business for the company, or are Import/Export clerks interchangeable? I ask this for several reasons, which I will get into once you respond.

Don't forget that there were a lot of bankruptcies in the 2002-2004 period, a record number I believe, and such conditions tend to undermine business confidence and hiring above and beyond actual business conditions. That all comes in addition to the obvious discrimination that foreigners face here (the amount of which varies by each individual situation).

I don't have specific solutions for you, but maybe others will. I might be able to help you figure out why you haven't been able to land a permanent position, but don't forget many Germans don't as well.

EDIT: Possible Eureka moment here: what about working for logistics firm like UPS or international shipping firms whose core business might fit your experience and training?

That sounds pretty unfair. Don't they recognise German army qualifications in the civilian workplace in Germany? If they do, you'd think there would be a way to get at least some kind of recognition of the skills you acquired in the British army. Perhaps the German army, or British army bases in Germany, could give you advice, maybe on the kind of paperwork that you'd need to get from the British army for your skills to be more easily recognised when applying for civilian jobs in Germany?

How are your German language skills? Did you have to do some kind of "Ausbildung" for the IHK exams or is that some kind of self-study thing? Is NRW the right spot? Seems like half of Hessen near the Flughafen is comprised of freight-forwarding/cargo/logistics firms. Hamburg same thing.

@ Conguistador

the good thing about being a Groß und Aussenhandelskaufmann is that you can take care of most of the adminstrative jobs which arrise within a company. I mostly have experience in order management / sales management and job processing. Theoretically during my occupational retraining I learn everything some topics more intensive and some just scratched. I hope this answers your question.

I speak fluent german and writing is pretty good not perfect though as german is not an easy and logical language.

Admin is by far the largest category of temporary work in Germany, so no wonder you are dealing with the Zeitarbeitsfirmen. I take it there is no shortage of people with the qualification you have, is that right?

The advice to look at firms operating near Frankfurt Flughafen or the port of Hamburg seems sound to me. Go where the jobs are since you aren't in a profession with high barriers to entry.

Unfair it may sound but it's true I left the British Army with a bag full of qualifications and smugger than a very smug-thing only to have my smugness rapidy deflated when I found out that not one qual was recognised here. I basically had to start from scratch worked my way up, trained and studied. I dont really regret it as I am where I am now BUT it could have been a lot easier.

E2A as far as the OP is concerned I know of at least 1 ex-medic who is working as a para-medic over here now, why didn't you go down that route?

so it is more or less a NRW problem!
But moving to Frankfurt or Hamburg is unfortunately not an option for me to consider as also my future wife will not be happy at all and will not consider moving that far away from where we live now.

If that's the case, I would suggest asking Fuchs66 if he could put you in touch with the person he mentioned in his earlier post.

why bother working for other people? there is always the option of starting your own business!

Worm you are right and I'd love to as I do have a few ideas but the major problem is that it costs money a lot of money to start up. I think quite often of different ideas on which I could give it a bash but I haven't found a good business idea yet.

yeah I also considered this but then I would have had to learn the same job again in german instead of english for 3 yrs. I thought I'd just try and when they see what I am capable of at work and would succeed but that didn't work out so then I did decide to apply for a re-training. This is a main topic for me personally which is pissing me off as I ask myself what the german companies are looking for?

25 year old person with at least 35 years of experience , highly qualified, as cheap as possible etc etc. With this I would have a chance.

But no I shall not pull myself down. I'll find something this year (I hope)

Sounds like you had similar experiences to my own, I went down the re-training route too (although I have been able to put some of my Army skills to use) it is a big gamble though, I was lucky.

you're living in Celle? Funny I was based not far from Celle

Yep live in Offen just down the road from Hohne camp, only been here a couple of months. Before that was in Bonn for 4 years and before that Munster(lager). Work mostly near Trauen Camp.

welsh man ..Why did you come here ? and when you came could you speak german ?

The problem is that in Germany most Professions are apprenticed.

In the main, this means 3 years of working with part-time college etc.

For many professions that is what the Germans want. The system was designed to ensure that tradespeople are actually tradespeople, and they know what is expected of them.

It's nigh to impossible to equate the qualifications of other nationalities within that framework, especially because the German system has pretty high standards (on paper at least, practical reality varies) compared to some countries.

The simple truth is that without the paperwork or equivalent recognized academic title anything you learned elsewhere is pretty much worthless.

For some qualifications there are equivalency programs, but these are limited.

Those are the hard cold facts. If you agree with them is an entirely different matter, and it is by no means meant to imply professionals and tradespeople of other countries are in any way inferior. But that's the way the system works. As the system is built that way, that is how people assess prospective applicants. They have no way of really knowing how good you are, or if your own past training is sufficient. And due to pressure, very few will give you a second look.
Think of it this way: The guy there has 20 Resume's, 19 German, 1 Ex-pat. The German C.V's he can immediately read and gauge. The Ex-pat one is difficult to compare. So the easiest choice wins. Stick to the 19.

You have a few choices:

- Aim for Hilfsarbeiter jobs, i.e. unskilled
- Some professions (I.T for example, as it has alot of cross-entries) are less regulated due to either there being no particular training etc.
- Get German qualifications, i.e. do a 'Ausbildung' or 'Umshulung' if you are able to.
- Check with the Handelskammer or equivalent which, if any, of your qualifications may be of use to you.
- Get an entry level job, and in time show them you know enough to fulfill a higher placement.

It's a real bummer with the army qualifications, but some relations have told me there are quite a few that aren't worth much outside of the forces.

It's the best I can come up with I am afraid, due to the fact that the reasons for the difficulty are very much systematic and written in stone.

ollie

Thorough explanation, and greatly appreciated. Thanks, ollie.

as mentioned I was in the Army and finding a Job in S/W Wales was and still is very difficult. A friend of my mums offered me the oppertunity to come to Germany and work here. So I thought why not and since then I've been here. I could speak little german just enough to get through but very broken. The missing rest I gradually learned here.

I came with loads of qualifications and no German and ended up working at the airport 4 years for 10 marks an hour,when i could speak German good enough I tried my luck looking for jobs in my profession and was lucky enough to get one, I got the job because of my experience not my qualifications.Speaking the language is 99% of the problem, ask yourself this .would you be happy to be looked after by lets say a Doctor in wales who could speak the equvilant amount of German you could speak when you first came even though you know he is very qualified ?

found the translation for my qualification.

Certified wholesale and export clerk = Groß und Außenhandelskaufmann.

Just for info.

You need to have done an Ausbildung in selling papers to get a paper round in Germany.

Yeah, but Welsh man's language skills are definately a plus. So many locals who have done mittlere Reife/Realschulabschluss and an equivalent apprenticeship to his one are struggling with English.

Sounds weird to me,Welsh man, that is is that difficult for you as a native English speaker and ex-soldier in addition to find a decent job. Even where I am from (Südwestfalen, where there are no big companies) there are companies with strong exports and also subsidiaries in the US. Funnily I know a manager (Geschäftsführer) of such a small company who has hired an ex-marine with a degree from a US-university due to his language skills and also his military qualifications. He has lived here for some years but returned to the US because his wife wasn't happy here.
Are you sure that everyting is alright with your applications and so on? Or perhaps you should check wheter you can improve your manners. I don't want to insult you but knowing how to adress people in German (Guten Tag Herr ...) and how to answer the phone etc. is probably pretty important in your profession. Perhaps you could get some professional advice to make sure that you don't have any deficits with regards to these things. Have no other idea why you have these difficulties.

Could also be that there is a surplus (or at least no shortage) of Groß und Außenhandelskaufmänner in his area. Maybe the language skills really aren't that important for the job.

I did indeed double check and recently re - wrote my letter of application. So I hope this might have a positive affect. Regarding my manners I think I do have good manners when answering the phone and also when writing letters. As already mentioned it's just very difficult here so it seems. One writes applications and then you either don't get an answer for the next few months or 2 days later thanks but no thanks.

Never the less, I shall not give up and my search continues to boldly go where no man has gone before

I just thought that there must be good opportunities for a well educated person like you. But to be honest I have never lived in an area where unemployment rates are as high as in Oberhausen and the Ruhrgebiet. Where I am from the unemployment rate was 6,5% in Juli although the Kreis belongs to NRW.