Feeling out of place and massively frustrated

Sorry this is so long.
I am new here, but have been reading the posts for some time now. I know many will disagree with what I have to say. I do apologize to those who might be offended.

I moved to Berlin from Rochester, NY about 5 years ago. I met my wife when she was a nanny in Rochester and we decided that we would live in Berlin (her hometown) and start a family. My parents were German immigrants so I have a German passport and speak the language.

I don’t party, go to clubs, drink or smoke. I love classic rock and have a good job. And being a dad is the most important thing to me.
I have tried, in the last 5 years, to enjoy it here but I can’t.

Everywhere I go there is dog crap, cigarette butts, drunk people and graffiti. Besides a few nice parks, some pretty buildings, cheap housing, Christmas markets and cheap dairy products, I can’t find any redeeming qualities in Germany.
The radio stations are terrible, the tv stations even worse. I love sports, but my God, all I hear about here is soccer. America is embracing soccer in a big way, why can't Europe embrace some American sports?

I pay more tax per year on my two old small cars than my uncle pays in property tax on his house.
The government froze my account last year because of an unpaid 10 Euro parking ticket. Sure, it was my fault, but the sheer amount of bureaucratic mail I receive daily is overwhelming. It was a lousy 10 Euro!!! Call me and I will bring it by personally (of course there wouldn't be anyone there to take my money because government offices are only opened 3 days a week for maybe 6 hours)
I can’t buy aspirin anywhere at 2am except the emergency Apoteke (where I pay triple the already over inflated price). And I can’t buy anything on Sundays, worse is that a German will say this is a good thing, believe me, it isn’t.

Cigarette ads and cigarette machines everywhere, c’mon….its not 1947, smoking hasn’t been glamorous in over 50 years! Get over it finally and think of the children (if you won't think of yourself)!!!
Reduce the gas tax and increase the alcohol tax, we need our cars but we don't need to get hammered every day (like so many do).
There is no roadwork nights, which is logically when road work should be done.
And why do Germans get so much vacation time? Answer: they need it to take care of all the stupid little things the government needs from you. You couldn't imagine the Hell they put us through when we wanted to get married.

In a city with 4 million citizens there are only 2 places you can get your car registered (if you can even afford to own a car)
I won’t even get into the service desert that Germany is or the wonderfull weather here or GEZ (which, on some level, must be a human rights offense)
It costs me more to phone my neighbor than my parents back in America (which for me, is actually a good thing)
On the highways they drive like Mario Andretti and in the city they reach new heights in arrogance.
A German has an uncanny knack to make him/herself feel good by making you feel bad. I swear, if one more person in Berlin tells me how I can do something better, faster , the right way or cleaner I will perch myself in the next clock tower.

If you are young, childless, have a decent income and smoke, Berlin must seem like paradise. But for families and children, Germany is not the place to be. As soon as I have saved enough cash we are outta here, even my wife has had it and can't wait to go, and she always defended this place.
It is no wonder that 150,000 Germans leave this country every year and no one is having kids, who would want to raise a child here?
And finally, the whole du and Sie thing...all I can say is AAARRRGGGHHHHHHHH. You want my respect? EARN IT!!!
And this is just a tiny portion of what drives me nuts here.

How did the Americans with families in this forum adapt so well to German life? What am I doing wrong? I am massively frustrated.

Nor do I (apart from occasional glass of good German white wine). To be honest I would not want to live in Berlin. Try somewhere else in Germany - like the North, the West or the South.


Hmm - if you think you will win a one-man battle to change the language I feel you might be onto a looser.

i dont think anyones going to "disagree" with you persay, because its your experience youre speaking about.

sounds like youve had a shite time.

interested in moving down to bavaria? its cleaner, people are more relaxed and theres even an american football team (complete with cheerleaders).

i fucking love it. but then again, i drink, smoke and have no children.

oh and if anyone spreads that idea of "benzin tax down, alcohol tax up" around, ill join the Kingdom of Bavaria Armed Forces and occupy the Augustiner Brauerei...you must be joking. you need to pollute the city in which you live in further? I have an alcohol addiction. do you have a pollution addiction? no i didnt think so. beer stays cheap.

oh wait, you dont get real beer in berlin. pity.

fuck it, if youre unhappy, get out. i hate the finanzamt, but everything else in munich feels like home to me.

good luck, and dont take it personally. berlin hates everyone.

bx

hang in there.
i do agree i'm not sure i'd want to raise a school aged kid in DE, but that's just becuase i don't agree with some aspects of the education system (mainly how it's startified) other aspects of the society would be great for raising kids.

no place is perfect. The US sucks in many wasy as does DE. Figure out what is important to you then look at both societies and see which aligns more with what you'd like- neither will have all.

Say what you mean, don't hang back now, let it out.

what the hell does "startified" mean?

I feel for you and your situation. my first two years were rough, but then it got better. Also, I lived in Metzingen (near Stuttgart) spotless streets, friendly people (Yes , there are friendly Germans, they call them Swabians, just can't understand a word they say though) Have you considered another part of Germany? I ask this because Berlin was the only place inGermany I didn't like, everywhere else may be a relief for you.

In any case, good luck!!

i meant stratified. geepers! i guess i wouldn't have made gymnasium or hauptschule.

Probably because they're shit. With the exception of hockey which is Canadian.

Only kidding (well...), sorry you had a rough time.

There is one thing you must learn- Europeans Germans are usually always right and you, as an American, are always wrong. It doesn't matter if this is the actual case- but if you pretend to agree to it, it will save you loads of grief. And sadly, if you watch German TV long enough, you will forget it's absolute shit... just kidding. It really is shit- but you might try to learn to embrace the Volksmusik nights on ZDF. If anything, it will teach you the words to songs you might need to know in a beer tent one day.


It's called importation. Or... stocking up your medical supplies when you go the States for a visit. OR, go to Holland- they sell EVERYTHING there.


See, this is where you've gone wrong. You need to apply for a Kur. A fabulous, financed Kur... a free, stress-reducing Kur... Learn how to make the most of your over-priced health insurance, ffs!!!


Oh, doch.


Learn to deal with it as Germans deal with it. You also need to realize they are not just poking unwanted advice in your face- they do it to EVERYONE. There's a wonderful function in your brain called the "Ignore" function. Learn to use it. Tune them out. Say things like, "Ja ja. Sie haben bestimmt Recht." And let it flow in one ear and out the other...


Perhaps it's just Berlin?

Wow, I guess that is the first time I heard someone calling us Swabians "friendly". Thanks!


Aspirin is actually at home in Germany.

I think mere means stratified,... = strata. a level or class to which people are assigned according to their social status, education, or income : members of other social strata.

I could be wrong but it matches the content of what mere wrote

EDIT, .. I'll have to learn how to type f - a - s - t - e - r

I agree with alot of what you say but sorry mate I do not agree with the above

kateTV- thanks! yups, that's what i meant.

They tried but it died on it's arse. Not enough people found it to be entertaining and voted with their feet.

god no, they're not even allowed to take guns to school here.


I'd say it was your attitude.

the hard part is that everyone is always gushing on and on about how great Berlin is. The new york times, artists, hipster music people, your lefty uncle... it's like, if you don't think Berlin is HOT SHIT then you are an un-informed, un-cool, un-intellectual (is that a word?) idiot.

I am also trying to get out. Mainly because the school system in Berlin is AWFUL and getting worse unless you can get to the British School (€€€) or the American one JFK (not really an option for my kid)

but worse then that? The negativity and un-empoyment rate has made people bitter and dependent on a system that is increasingly bankrupt. I want my kids to work and understand the value of it. None of this whiny, unemployed+entitlement shit.

My advice? Start figuring out where you want to go next, put a plan together and make it happen.

That is correct. However, if you're looking for something like effective sinus medication... then you're better off importing.

I also dont agree with this either, I think you mean they drive like boxhead f@cking arrogant Michael c@nt Schumacher

Neither did Hitler. Maybe you should...nah forget it!


Pff, Asprin doesnt work anyway. Have a beer, that'll sort it..oh yeah, you dont drink. Its only something minor, if asprin sorts the problem, you dont need to take any.


As of last year I am a huge Chicago Bears fan. Try being an Oldham Athletic fan!

Form your own political party?

I prefer to call them a stammtisch* these days!

*Or as we like to call them in Munich 'Toytown Tuesdays'

Finally someone who speaks my language!
I agree wholeheartily , the people I know that find Berlin cool are unmarried and childless and spend their lives boozing in clubs every night but as a non-drinker, non-smoker, married woman with a child, I just don't find the appeal!
My husband is German and as you said, after previously defending this place and after our second 2 year period attempt to 'settle' here he has given up and decided we should indeed leave for good, why keep complaining and not do something about it? Life's too short!

Agree about the school system, we badly wanted our daughter to attend the British School but the fees are astronomical even though we do well economically, we had to settled instead for the English-German government funded school next to the British one and I have nothing but complaints from that place, it is the worst school my daughter has ever attended and in London she never went private either but the standard in that school was a lot lower than any of her previous schools, maybe we were just unlucky, maybe it is just Berlin, but as you said, we did something about it and we are a lot happier with our decision.

so you're looking for a nice clean place to raise your kids, and you chose: Berlin

yes, there are places within commuting distance of Berlin that offer all you're looking for (no ciggie billboards, no drunks on the street, friendly neighbours). but did you look for a place there? no. you went and (from your description) chose to live right where it's at in Germany's capital and most vibrant city. Then you complain that you enjoy none of the aspects that make it vibrant (clubs, culture, etc.).

Have you considered Singapore?

confucius say:
you look for frustrastion, you find frustration. you look for beauty, you find beauty.*

*I'm sure he said that, it's so incredibly profound.

I feel for you, hard to live a happy life when there is so much that makes you miserable.
If you want to stay in Germany- how about a move to some nicer places, the Munich area is nice and the smaller towns are great for raising a family if you stay here.
I personally hated Berlin, didn't feel safe at all, found it dirty and scummy... but that is my opinion, others love it, fine, I have choosen to live elsewhere.

Talk to your partner, maybe its time for a move back to the US.

my advice would be to settle in before starting a family (why does everyone have to go to the kids stage so quickly) but its a bit late for that, so on a practical note you really have to talk to your partner about it and discuss moving somewhere else in germany, to the US or (which would be my preference) a 'neutral country.

What would a smoker care about clean air, wouldn't it just dilute the toxic chemical cocktail mixture you take deep into your lungs all day?


Thanks Diane, now I just have to deal with the fact that this year my daughter will be attending that English-German government funded school you mentioned. I hope it isn't as bad as you say.

Oh, come on, guy. You can hardly point fingers at the Germans for being know-it-all preachy bastards if you're talking like that. Live and let live here, or what?

I guess after 5 years it rubs off...do unto others and all that.

Sorry you're having such a bad time scubated. I hated Berlin/Germany for 2 years but am enjoying it now...having good friends really helped. But I guess having to raise a family is a different matter...

If Berlin doesn't ban public smoking soon I'm gonna seriously consider moving out though

Then you should be used to it by now.

Not sure I'd live in Berlin with kids, (or Paris, NYC, Mexico City, Shanghai ...) with kids think different, find space and community.
But I feel for you, some adjust, some don't, move onward.

I'm sorry I've made you feel worse, it wasn't my intention
But as I said maybe I was unlucky, or lucky, depends how you want to see it...
My daughter attended 1 nursery & 2 different primary schools in London, the nursery was lovely in every way, the primary school was too, fantastic, a mixed of children from all over the world in a very friendly and artistic environment, both government funded schools where we never and a problem with any of the teachers. The third was a Catholic school funded by the church and by far the best absolutely posh and top quality in every way, super modern building, top security (cameras, gates) great school gym, computer equipment, stage, etc. better than most private schools and 100%free of course, from that school we came here to this primary school where she studied a year and a half.
This bilingual school, everyone there knows, is in tatters, with very poor sanitation, awful toilets and no security, the head teacher seems to be very unapproachable and the teachers, well although it is a bilingual school most of the staff don't speak any English at all, some teachers are absolutely great and some, well, not so much. My daughter first 'half year' was ok as the teacher she got was a lovely young Canadian girl, but she left as she didn't get paid enough, she went back to Canada, and the teacher she got on her last year was awful, we got into discussions and problems with him all the time, some parents are trying to change things but the school is under funded and has a shortage of bilingual teachers, for us it was a total waste of a year.
Gladly her last teacher has left too so no chance of your daughter getting him.
I think you'll be ok, I advice you not to get the school meals and to make yourself heard, monitor everything and help your daughter as much as you can at home, by the way, the drama teacher, an English woman, is absolutely lovely and a great teacher, if your daughter is interested in taking drama as an extra activity she will enjoy her class.

@Diane, is that the Berlin "Phorms" (partly public-funded bilingual) school that is starting up in Munich this September or is it another one?

Nope, I'm talking about one of the bilingual schools here in Berlin, there's two, both public funded

"You are not in Kansas anymore, Dorothy"

Heres' an article about how Rochester, N.Y. is ranked No.1 for quality of life in 2007.
"http://www.expansionmanagement.com/smo/art...=18836&st=5

"Among metros with populations of over 1 million, Rochester, N.Y., ranked No.1, followed by Pittsburgh, Pa., Austin, Texas, Boston, Mass., and San Jose, Calif. Madison, Wis., Des Moines, Iowa, Raleigh, N.C., Lexington, Ky., and Springfield, Mo., topped the list for midsize Metros, while Fargo, N.D., Columbia, Mo., Sioux Falls, S.D., Iowa City, Iowa, and Bismarck, N.D., led the list of metros with populations under 400,000. The rankings evaluated housing affordability, crime rates and public schools, as well as the standard of living, traffic and commuting, commercial air access, continuing education opportunities and adult education levels. In all, a total of 362 MSAs were evaluated based on nearly 50 statistical criteria.

I am sorry that you don't find this place berlin suitable for you and your family, .. My daughter and I are in berlin and (we) I love it. I love the history.

?Would I move somewhere else just because single people go and party, - NO, would I move because people smoke, -NO. Can I change the people around me, - YES. (move areas)
For a big city it is very secure. I don't know what part of berlin your in, we (my daughter and I) are in mitte and we like it. There's a BIG difference to new zealand aswell, .. many 'german' people have said that Muenchen would be a better/great place to raise my daughter. "Totally different and kinderfreundlich".

What part of german did your parents come from? have you spoken to them about this stuff? How old were you when you left here? just curious

Hi Kate,
My parents came from Spandau (Siemesstadt), I live in the same area. I was 2 when we left Germany and my parents say "come back". They hate Germany and would never move back (only to visit, of course).
So many say to get used to it, but I don't want to get used to it. The decision to move back has been made, but I earn a very good wage and want to save up first, I do not want to return to the States like a refugee.

What exactly do you want? You moved here- for the money?- not only do you hate here it but you refuse to try to like it, but also refuse to leave - because of the money... Basically you are miserable by choice.

...I would agree with you but I would says its a catch 22 here. I mean he is a father and wants to provide his family the best, but it seems his heart belongs in the usa.

1. certainly picked the right city for that. Munich has much less of that (not that I am making a dig at Berlin)
2. I don't on aTV so not sure, but as ar as I know it's possible to get international channels by using satellite
3. why should "Europe" embrace American sports? If the concept was even acceptable, shouldn't Germany's moral oblgation be to the other EU countries - more coverage of rugby, cricket, petanque, America's Cup sailing etc would surely come first
4. But you also said you earn so much - if you go back to the US you'll presumably pay less tax on your cars but also earn less - YOUR choice
5. Right. YOUR fault. You sound unorganised. Why do you need to buy aspirin at 2am in the morning? It doesn't go off if you buy it during normal opening hours and keep it for a few months
6. I would also like to do this. But since it's not an option I organise myself to buy things at other times. Any emergency supplies I can get on a Sunday at the train stations (and Berlin has more of these, and a larger range of shops, than Munich)
7. You're joking, right?
8. Doesn't roadwork cause a hell of a lot of noise? Do you really want that when you're trying to sleep? And do you want to pay even higher taxes as the workers then cost a lot more? (maybe you do want both of these; but everything as a flipside)
9. I don't actually know anyone here, with family or without, who doesn't spend a large part of his wonderfully long vacation time on holiday or working on his/her house. First time I've seen anyone find a negative aspect to the vacation time. Maybe if you were better organised you could find a way of attending to the bureaucratic things outside your vacation time?
10. Have you checked your options? (its that lack of organisation again ). All my German calls are free, and most others very cheap.
11.Without wanting to stereotype or hit at Americans I have experinced this from SOME loudmouthed Americans too (and others); I don't find it a specifically German trait
12. I think for you this is the correct option. Go be a misery-guts somewhere else. One can find things to hate about eveywhere. It's largly about choice - YOUR choice
13. "I am massively frustrated" - that's your answer.

Surely if both he and his wife are completely miserable here, then living a life with a bit more happiness should perhaps take priority over money?

Edit: Perhaps it is because of my life philosophy that I tend to always be short on cash.

I don't know...I'm young, and go out sometimes, but I don't smoke, and I'm not leftist, alternative or anything like that. I'm generally conservative and want to persue a profession here...sometimes I get annoyed at the punks and graffiti but generally it doesn't annoy me here. I live centrally so I don't have a car. I pray for a smoking ban (I'm allergic to smoke. I ignore it when someone gives me dumb advice and I pay my random bills as they come. All in all I don't mind it. I go through my day with a smile on my face and actually I find that people respond very well to that.
Most Germans I know don't get excessively drunk and I find you a bit judgemental on that. Just because you enjoy the occassional night out or the odd beer doesn't mean you're a drunk and you party a lot. There is a big difference between the two. I agree about the smoking though...when you smoke indoors in public you're forcing everyone who doesn't want to smoke to breath it.

LOL

he is miserable, not his wife at least not when you read his opening statement.

'I'... and 'what I provide the family' and 'I am not prepared to change'.

@ fallen angel,...Money, what's that? eh? I only ever seem to make what I need, not by choice.. if my daughter needs new shoes, for some reason I get more work than the norm just luck I guess. And I am happy here in berlin, .. but it has been some years now and Muenchen does look exciting, - maybe time for a change, who knows.

Iwould like to second Venus- I do not go out "boozing" every night at clubs and I have a 9-5 job but I still love Berlin, (while I was completely miserable in Munich). They way you have painted Berlin- is sometimes unjustified and very judgmental, and while I agree that to each their own, I think a lot comes with the attitude. If you hate it, get out, but just don't act like Berlin needs to alter itself to fit your needs nor does all of Germany for that matter. I do not have kids but from experiencing world capitals and cosmopolitan locations I would say Berlin is the least like a "big city"- and I know I am not the only one who thinks this. Also it is much safer and has a huge number of parks all over, and the prices, well, housing, restaurants and groceries are hardly this cheap anywhere in the major cities of the Western world. Clearly I am not here to convince you, and I do not see the need obviously. But remember, as others have said, Berlin is also NOT like the rest of Germany, for some it's a minus, for me a plus...may be you can find better life in other towns. Aside, from the sports problem (ffs!), I think the issue is not necessarily with Germany vs. US but more small town vs. big city for you...

I don't have a family and I've only been here about 2 months, so I can't really help you out a whole lot on adjusting in that regard, however I know a lot of people who have moved to the US from other countries so I know a little about the challenges that brings. I can identify with you in some aspect - it's a massive culture shock coming from the US to here. and that's the thing-- you can say all you want about how things are done here, but in the end it's culture--- it's not about being right or wrong. You can change how things are done here, everybody needs to rant sometimes (I know I sure do it a lot lately lol), but in the end the only way towards success is lots of trial and error and creativity towards making things work for you--- and although it is harder to do abroad, this would be true of moving to a new city in the US as well.

My advice to you until you leave ---- focus on what you can do and try to dwell less on "fitting in", which quite frankly is probably only going to cause you pain and frustration. Some of the things you complain about are not unique to Germany--- if you lived in NYC or another big city people a lot of people would be into partying and drinking, there is plenty of graffiti and not so clean stuff. It is easy to focus on everything that is wrong here, but certainly there must be things you didn't like about the US as well--- and in the US did you "fit in" completely? and that's the thing, wherever you go you'll have to find your niche.

perhaps others have some ideas on how to find your niche here--- if you already live in one of the neighborhoods with lots of families that would make it easier i would think--- mitte and prenzleuberg are full of baby carriages.

last note-- when i studied in mexico one of my best friends (he was Mexican) was about as unMexican as you can get--- he was a vegetarian, didn't drink or smoke or party, had perfect english... he found people who were cool with that. good luck to you, sounds like you're in a tough spot

Dunno who is worse you or misery guts aka "Iain & Siobhan". Get some perspective you whiny little man.

Whiny little man..I love it! Thats what my wife also calls me! (among other things)

A sense of humour can be your friend in the pursuit of non-frustration (aka happiness) - or were you just stating a fact?

Just another whining shit, the rest of us get on with it and actually find it's not that bad or even good fun.