Claiming for damages after a cycling accident

OK, so yesterday I was cycling home from work along the Landsberger Str (on the cycle path in one of those little parallel lane things) when some idiot opened the rear car door of his parked car right in front of me. I obviously attempted to swerve and avoid it, but pretty much lost control of the bike and fell. The police and the Notarzt came, and the police told me that, whilst somebody from the Verkehrspolizei will take a statement from me over the phone, they have already decided that the woman in the car was at fault. I was taken to the hospital and have a cut on my leg that required stitches, bruises pretty much everywhere, and a broken elbow. More to the point, my 1 month old bike is pretty messed up - the handlebar bit is all bent and twisted, as are the mudfalps. The paint has scratches etc, and that is just the damage visible at a glance.
My Rechtsschutz says that I am covered to take a lawyer in this situation, and that the car driver's insurance will have to pay. Marc knows a lawyer, and so he will be talking to him later today. I just wondered if anyone has been through this sort of thing themselves, and has any tips?

Oh no Really sorry to hear that Kathie!! Get well soon!

Find the original receipt or provide your lawyer with proof of payment so you get as much as possible for the bike. Any damages to clothing? Go for them as well, even without a receipt. A broken elbow can be a serious injury, don't agree to a one-off payment but hold out for any future disability or limitation of movement. Try for compensation for scars as well, women tend to be more sleeveless than men. Were you wearing a helmet? Go for a new one.
Most of all, get well again, I hope you are as comfortable as possible.

My only advice is don't take the first offer the insurance offer you. They are bandits and will try anything to get out of paying what is due. Oh and always consult a lawyer, but you're doing that anyway, but for any others, I have an acquaintance who is a lawyer and he always says people leave consulting a lawyer much too late. It always causes problems if too much time has passed, strike while the iron is hot!
One other thing, write down now exactly what happened, it's amazing how much you forget by the time it comes to court, should it come to that.

First of all sorry Kathie, and i do hope you did not have to suffer too much pain from this accident.

Now to your "case": once it's in your lawyer's hands I think you're ok.
Most probably he will ask the car insurer to pay for your medical bill as well as for the repair or replacement of your bike.

And here looms trouble if you're not careful: speak with the lawyer before you throw away any receipts or bills from doctors/ambulance/hospital. Also if you had a loss of income because you were immobilsed for a while, ask if you can claim.

As regards your bike you may not be very happy, but they may only be obliged to pay for repairs, and if after all repairs have been completed they may claim that your bike is now more valuable than before the accident and that you have to pay a bit for that. I think the English term for this is "betterment".
I don't think you can ask for the full value of your bike at the time you bought it. Hopefully you still have the receipts, otherwise walk over to the shop where you bought it, perhaps they still remember you and can be of assistance.

Accidents are always bad for the afflicted part: the guy who opened the door without looking does not suffer as much as you do, and you are left with a broken elbow etc, and I can imagine that hurts.
Get well soon and good luck!

Sorry to hear about your accident, it sounds nasty, my sympathies. Get well soon...

As well as what the others pointed out it is also reasonable for you to claim for all travel costs while recovering, unable to cycle and need to drive/take a taxi and so on, in fact all costs that are a direct or indirect result of the accident can be claimed. As sarabyrd pointed out if you were wearing a helmet you should bin it (even if it shows no signs of damage) and get a new one as it may have hairline fractures that weaken it.

Usually I cycle about 1m away from parked cars to avoid just this situation, and if the cycle path is not wide enough to allow this distance I don't use it. Self preservation comes above almost everything else.

Thank you for the good wishes everybody! Yes, I still have all the receipts for the bike, and plan to take it to Radl Bauer when I'm feeling a bit better and get them to give me a detailed quote for repairs. My health insurance will cover all my medical bills, so I don't have to worry about that. The guy at the rechtsschutzversicherung said I could claim "Schmerzensgeld" though, so we'll see what the lawyer says about that. I don't want to ruin the woman that did it, she was very nice after the accident, but I definitely want them to pay for repairs.

Sorry to hear about the accident, sounds painful as well as a right hassle. I guess the main thing is that you still seem to be able to type in order to post on TT, despite a broken elbow! Well done

You won't ruin the woman who did it, you will ruin her insurance company (god, you people are too nice sometimes). Having opened a taxi door at the airport and had a speeding BMW take the door off, I found out to my (insurers) cost that the law in Germany says that you open car door, you liable. No quibble.

Seconded.


How pathetic is that? Prior to the accident she had a functioning / in good order bike. One would certainly expect it to be restored to its former glory and not expect to pay for it.


It is their call to fix/replace it to your satisfacion (read at least as good as it was before). However they do it is their problem.

I would hope that in this case, I can claim to restore my bike to the value it was when I bought it, as I only bought it a month ago - devaluation doesn't happen that quickly surely...

If your insurance pays out then you may lose your no-claims rebate that some insurances pay out. Either way, neither you nor your insurance should pay, her insurance should pay. This is the way the system is designed to work.

Really, how does that work? I handed in my health insurance card (I've got normal german public health insurance) at the hospital yesterday. Will my health insurance go about getting it from hers? Should I ring my health insurance and tell them what happened? Does it make any difference that the accident was classed as an "Arbeitsunfall", because I was on my way home from work?

Ah, I was thinking of private insurances who return some of the (vast sums of) money you paid in premiums if you don't claim for a year, and the amount returned increases each year that no claim is made. For the public system I'm not sure if you get a rebate, so it may not make a difference. There is some special stuff, I believe, for accidents on the way to/from work but I don't know about this in any detail.

Very possibly, I've known this to happen. Your (public) health insurance will want to get their expenses back from the person who they consider to be liable.


Well it can make it a bit more complicated, because if it gets nasty then your employer could get involved. This would happen if, for example, your health insurance don't their money out of the other insurance and then look around to see where else they can claim it from. If it's been documented as an "Arbeitsunfall" then they may contact your employer and try to get it back off his employee-insurance (which I believe is required to have with the "Berufsgenossenschaft").

I've never heard of this actually happening to anyone I know, so it's purely theoretical. What I heard about in such cases is that the two insurances (yours and hers) argue it out over who was responsible and don't just accept the police report outright.

So should I ring my health insurance and tell them my story now?

Difficult to say, but normally if you were treated in hospital and classed as "Arbeitsunfall" the hospital would send its bill to your insurance and they would know that way what the circumstances were. They'll soon ask if they want to know anything.

If you're off work and have the yellow/red sick note you'll need to send/give them that as soon as possible as well, so I'd visit their office with the note and just ask how they're dealing with it.

I have no useful advice, but just wanted to say sorry about your accident! Sounds like you ought to be able to recover some money, not that that helps ease your pain at the moment.

Sorry to hear about your accident, hope you feel better soon!

Did you tell the admin or doctors at the hospital that it was an Arbeitsunfall? And most of all, were you on your direct way from work home or did you stop over somewhere or take a detour to get fresh beer broccoli for dinner? The Berufsgenossenschaft will cover any necessary costs including physiotherapy etc. and claim from the woman's insurance, you don't have to worry about that. They might ask you for a release for your doctors and other medical personnel.
Regarding rental car/taxi fares: You have to keep the damage down*. If you never drive to work the insurance probably will not cover a rental car or taxi fares. If you are mobile enough to use public transport and don't usually have a MVV ticket, keep all tickets that you use. If you have a weekly/monthly/annual ticket the insurance will not reimburse you for that.
*Schadensminderungspflicht

Well I had a car accident in 1999 on the way home from work - this counted as a Wegeunfall which is covered by Statutory Accident Insurance.
The employer must make a statement to the Unfallkasse called a Unfallanzeige (above link has the form). They have 3 days after knowledge of the accident to submit the form.
The cross-claims regarding sick pay are then dealt with between the insurers, I didn't have to get involved in that bit, and it isn't to do with damage to the bike or personal damages, but more to do with rehabilitation, treatment, sick pay and employer compensation.

Everyone in Germany should carry Haftpflichtversicherung for just this eventuality. The person who knocked you off should be picking up any medical bills and not you or your insurance. Even if you do not get a rebate at the end of the year or an increase in premium, you may get better/more extensive services offered if your insurer knows that it will not be picking up the tab.

And your Wegeunfall-costs can be offset against tax. Seriously.

Yes, it was recorded as a Wegeunfall, and the woman from the hospital called me today to ask me for the exact address of my employer (couldn't remember the postcode yesterday), so I assume they're dealing with that. I e-mailed my employer yesterday telling them it was an Arbeitsunfall, and apparently they've dealt with all that too. I went straight home from work, did not pass Go, did not collect bla bla bla


Actually, it'll apparently be the drivers car insurance that is responsible for the damage.


What kind of costs would those be?

Costs for the repair of the bike, it's the actual costs of repair, not if, say, you caused a car accident and thus your insurance premium went up.
Such costs are classed as Werbungskosten and can include travelling to the doctor, replacing clothing ruined during the accident, new glasses if they broke during the accident... normally clothing etc. would not count as Werbungskosten but if in connection with a Wegeunfall they do. Submit all receipts, keep records and be prepared to link back to the accident.
Contact your local Steuerverein for more info.

Sorry to hear about the accident Kathie, I hope it's not too painful. Regarding your health insurer, my son broke his arm about a year ago and a couple of weeks after the accident our insurer sent an accident form to fill out, so I would imagine you'll get a similar thing.

Work to home / home to work - the employer pays all (German Constitution).
Beware of overtreatment as you yield much more dosh to the Aertze
than a run-of-the-mill Krankenkasse patient. (Employer pays at private health insurance rates)
Take a second opinion if necc.

I was involved in bike (me) against car accident. It was in a bit of a grey zone as to who had right of way.

Anyway I took a tumble but suffered only cuts and bruises. There was some damage to the car. The guy gets out of his car and starts complaining about the damage. I was still a bit dazed (actually my normal condition ha ha) but luckily some other drivers stopped and led me to the side of the road.

Once things settled down we took each others details. Luckily two couples offered to act as witnesses so they gave me their names and addresses too.
I though that I was basically all right and because the damage to the car seemed minimal we thought it wasn't necessary to call the police. My bike was barely rideable but hen I only had 2km to go so we left saying we would contact our respective insurance companies to get things sorted out.

Next day I started talking to friends and found out I made a couple of mistakes.

One - In the event of personal injury ALWAYS, ALWAYS ALWAYS call the police.
In my case during the accident and shortly after I was still in a bit of shock and so didn't feel to bad. Next day when I woke up with a sore neck, swollen, ankle bruised knees etc. I realized that if any of the damage was permanent then I would need some documentation for insurance. One piece would be a police report. Otherwise according to the insurance I could have picked up my injuries tripping on the stairs at home. A second piece would be a doctors report so I hot-footed it to the docs to get that at least, telling the doctor that I wanted it explicitly stated in the report that the injuries were the result of my accident with the car.

Two - never never admit to being at fault.
There was some presure from the car driver to get me to admit it was my fault. Luckily I had enough sense not to. That is the job of the courts and insurance companies if it ever gets that far. Even when I phoned the police next day asking what I could do to clarify who had the right of way on that particular street they said if it wasn't clear who was at fault (ie no fine) then they would have only taken down the details of the accident and passed them on.

So after that I contacted my insurance company. They sent me some forms to fill out in which I had to include my description of how things happend and a small diagram. In the meantime I received a letter from the car drivers shop asking me to pay 1200 Euros for the car repairs. I referred them to my insurance company. A few weeks later my insurance company asks me for pics of the "scene of the crime" I truck out there gets some pics and send them in with another detailed diagram. I assume the car driver had to do the same. Another couple of weeks go by and I receive another letter from my insurance stating that they see no reason to pay for any damages to the car and do not see me in the wrong. That was basically it. I haven't heard anything else for over a year now.

One thing, my aches and pains eventually went away so I got really lucky there. I don't know what I could have done if I would have still been limping around even now.

Oh and to tie things off I am pretty handy with fixing bikes so I did my own bike repairs. In retrospect I am certain I could have had my bike fixed and a shop and have the car drivers insurance pay for it.

I could have claimed "Schmerzensgeld" as well. That would have probably got me a a several hundred Euros of pocket money for my pains.

This is the main reason I ride in the middle of the car lane if there are any parked vehicles around and refuse as much as possible to ride on bike paths. Too easy to get into an accident like this one. Another danger is pedestrians wandering in front of you off the sidewalk.

That's why you have a bell. As for not using the bike paths, I think you're taking a greater risk riding in the street.

I will definitely continue to ride on cycle paths, as I remain convinced that they are the safest option. This was a freak accident, and I was just unlucky to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. 5 seconds either way and I would have been fine.

Some people are just so oblivious it's ridiculous. This exact same thing happened to me last year as I was riding my bike back from work. The guy who opened his door was clearly at fault. The police and the ambulance (I also needed stiches) were all very nice and helpful (and there within seconds) and the guy who opened his door was panicking. I kind of felt bad for him, as you may for the lady, but seriously, in hindsight, fk that.

I ended up having to go to the hospital for the stiches and the doctor told me he wouldn't write me sick even though the bruise covered my entire upper arm and I needed stiches. I decided, because of that, I wouldn't sue for Schmerzgeld. At the time I was happy not to be grumpy about it and sue his insurance, and the next day he sent me flowers and called to see if I was ok which made me feel even better about not suing him.

But what I had to deal with afterwards was such a pain in the ass. Not only did his negligence to take a quick peek backwards send me to the hospital and leave a huge, nasty, swollen and bruised arm and a scar that's still there, but I also had to fill out tons of paperwork from my and my work's insurance, go to the police station to leave my statement, get my bike repaired, pay an ambulance fee and then send all the receipts and statements to his insurance to get compensation for my bike and medical bills. And since that phone call on the day after, I never heard from or saw him again.

So I say, even if the lady was nice as hell, as Batson Creek says, it won't affect her, rather her insurance, so sue her ass. Get a couple hundred euros out of it.. I wish I had. It was seriously a part-time job getting all that mess sorted out, and I should've been paid for it.

I've (in 4 months) had two bike accidents here... one a kid cycled into me, causing me to hit a car. The kid did a runner... leaving me to pick up the car damages bill (Cops were involved). Needless to say even with 3 people's description of the kid, the police never found him.

Today I just got taken out by... a puppy... yes as bad as that sounds. The dog came around a corner, I moved to avoid it while breaking, and poor thing ran straight in front of me. I think I came out worse, as I'm covered in scrapes and blood, and the dog just ran away barking at me! His owner was very appologetic, and I since I've got like 2 scratches, I didn't think it really mattered about insurance etc... Was more worried that the dog was hurt!

Riding the bike paths is OK if you're on a granny bike doing errands, but for commuting and getting anywhere at normal speed if you have a fast bike and know how to ride it, it is far safer to ride with the flow of traffic on the streets. You ride as if you were a car being aware of what's around you and signal your intentions and you should have no problem.

In my opinion cyclists here overuse the bell. They should be the ones giving a wide berth, taking it slow and taking care not to hit errant pedestrians. But too often they charge along thinking the bell gives them the right to do so.

The bad news is that bikers must use bike paths (Radwegbenutzungspflicht) -German link- except in certain situations. If you cycle on the street instead you can be subject to a fine. It's the "Baden verboten! Lebensgefahr" discussion all over again - you take the decision in your own hands and may be surprised at the outcome.

Agreed. I can't even count the times I narrowly escaped being mowed down by a cyclist, even without being an "errant" pedestrian.

Bike paths are there so that car drivers don't have to worry about bikes in the traffic. I commuted all over Munich and always used bike paths when they were available. Half the time you move faster on them than the cars do on the road anyways. Perhaps there aren't so many in Hamburg, I don't know. Also, if someone opens their car door in front of you and you are on the bike path, you will swerve onto the sidewalk and not into the next lane of traffic, where you are more easily mowed down.

Bells are there to be used. I don't charge away, thinking the bell gives me precedence over pedestrians. But neither do I meekly let them wander all over the bikepath and have me toodle along behind them.

Hi all,

Sorry to hear that its mor of us in this situation. I was hit by the car some week ago. I was riding on the sidewalk (it was empty) and tried to cross the street on the pedestrian crossing. Out of nowhere blue opel astra came and hit me from my left side. I crashed on his bonnet, destroyed his windshield and landed on the roof. It really looked deadly... Fortunately (I am really lucky) nothing serious happened. Ofcourse some bruises plus injuries in head. I hospital they made lots of tests/xrays etc, but in the end even stitches were not neccesairy... I got a call from the police saying that they find both of us guilty, however the driver holds majority of guilt. I went to the police station last saturday and found that the guy took a lawyer. For me its quite a problem and reason for concern because I was not insured (and therefore worst case face all expenses from my pocket) and don't have any lawyer. Now I am considering taking one.

Do you have suggestions for me? Police said the majority of the guilt is on the drivers side because he drove too fast on the pedestrian crossing and didn't look. My guilt is that I was riding on the pedestrian crossing in the first place. Do you think the judge will base on police report or what the lawyer of the other guy says? Do you know how much lawyer cost? I will need to take one soon and am really scared...

Best wishes to all and be careful on the road.

Cheers,

P.

Hi paweu, sorry to hear about your accident, and dilemma with the mess afterwards. First, it's quite normal that the driver will have access to a lawyer who is probably appointed by his car insurance. It is also possible the guy has a separate legal insurance, which many Germans seem to have. It is also fairly normal for the police to split the blame, it rarely is apportioned 100% to one party, and usually reflects the balance of the facts, as in your case. In theory this should make everyone more careful, but the Hermanns seem to be the most reckless drivers I've seen anywhere, often astoundingly irresponsible when driving. Still, what are the next steps that the police will take? Will they charge the driver with any offence, like driving like a twat, or is it up to you to make a claim against his insurance for your injuries/losses? In what proportions did they distribute fault? What communication did you have with his insurance company? A word of warning: Never admit any guilt, or apologise for anything. You may be technically at fault for riding on the pavement, but always approach the argument from the other angle - you have a right to use the pavement without being mown down by wankers like this.

You should treat the case carefully and seek professional advice in case the driver's insurance tries to persue you for any damages, although I suspect their purpose in hiring a lawyer is more to reduce the amount they have to pay you, rather than persuing you to repair his car. I don't have a lot of experience but although this is unlikely it is possible. Although you say nothing happened I imagine the driver's car insurance company is prepared for you to submit large hospital bills which they may try to contest, or only pay some proportion of.

As a cyclist there are two insurances that may help you - personal legal insurance and 'haftpflicht' third party liability insurance. Legal insurance often covers accidents in the street and will pay for a lawyer to represent you in cases like this, and liability insurance will pay for any damage you cause to others. Legal insurance costs approx 100-200 euro a year (read the exclusion list very carefully), liability around 100 euro. However neither work 'after the fact', but may be interesting for the future.

Wow. Thank you so much for such prompt and exhaustive reply.

I never accepted the blame for the accident. Only when I spoke to the police officer on phone I told him I understand what was the blame and on whom. There was no communication from the insurance company of the other guy though. Police also didn't split the blame in %. They just said: "The majority of the fault is on the driver and a little bit on you". Well, I spoke to my colleagues from work and I am going for a lawyer. I already made some phonecalls and it looks like it will cost me 100euros for 1st visit and then we will see. Most likely lawyer will charge around 10% of the total value we are fighting for.

There is no point in counting on luck if the other guy is choosing the hard and painful way by picking lawyer to represent him. My lawyer should know lots of things I could/should do to make my chances for a win better. And in any case if we split the guilt and costs 50/50 I am already paying for his lawyer, so why shouldn't I take one for me...

Very good point with the insurance. I was always somehow insured but this year I begun new job, it was a big mess with all arrangements and somehow I lost it to get insurance. My bad and good lesson for everyone.

btw. I was really impressed with the way police treated me. Gently, with all respect, I really appreciate that (thats sounds akward, no?).

Good luck to all.

P.

No problem, unfortunately I can't offer any factual advice, or anything from personal experience, but only the sum of anecdotal wisdom collected over the years. Do you know if the driver employed the lawyer, or the insurance company, and for what purpose? Going for the lawyer to protect your interests is a wise precautionary step, although I doubt if the driver's insurance will try to sue you to recover their costs. Naturally, if the driver only has 3rd party insurance he will be responsible for repairing his car and, if he's a big enough wanker, may try to sue you personally, claiming the whole thing was your fault. Generally though the law of the roads here protects pedestrians and cyclists when they are involved in an accident with a vehicle so I doubt if he would be able to get away with anything like this. Remeber you have every right to request reimbursement for your damage from his insurance company, the same way that they will try not to pay out. Discuss this with your lawyer, even better allow him to make all communciations for you (but make sure he keeps you informed!).

Good luck...