Why everyone in Germany is so against the U.S.

I am curious. I am new to chat rooms - I would say TT to be specific. Do people take the scolding, name calling seriously or it is just for fun? Do people take it personal?

Try Rocky Mountain Oysters instead: http://www.beavercleaver.net/recipe.htm

I understand, cheesecake was the world's #1 dessert and loved all over the globe until the shrub came to office. Don't worry, just 18 more months to go and you can go back to loving it as you did before.

I suggest that you take 100% of what you see here with a grain of salt. A good portion of us here are laughing our asses off in PMs to each other.

Thanks DrivinWest.

But... um... my mother makes cheesecake. Do you think she is working for the CIA?

NOT to be confused with the rant...

Choose at will...

Bill Clinton was a joke in Munich. He was a world wide punch line. I was there, I had to face the questions and hear the crap. The IHT published an article at the time that stated that most of the countries in Europe, including Germany, would have canned Clinton. Not for the sex, but for the lying and cover up.

You guys from the US shouldn't take this too serious. In my opinion most Germans are still very grateful towards America for helping the allies to win the war and for helping to rebuild the country. And for the "Care-Pakete", which helped Germans to survive in '45 and '46. Even my teacher in primary school told us about them.

Of course there are some things that I don't understand about America. As mentioned before, the freedom fries-thing is one of them. Or that some politicians wanted to prevent Americans from giving orders to German and probably also French companies. And in the end the given reason for going to war emerged as a lie. Of course did I think, Americans are rather arrogant. Or think about the UN. America owes them the most money among all members. Or the international war court.

I think the deeper reason for the alleged animosity of many Germans and probably also other Europeans is America's size and its dominance in many areas. Of course in politics but also sports for example.

It's the same with the Swiss and Germany for example. They have got German cars, German fridges and many other things from Germany and watch German TV because there are only two Swiss TV-channels. They also know that they probably won't win the European Cup next year in their own country, but that Germany will most likely. Of course they feel dominated by us somehow and try to preserve their cultural pecularities. Ask a Swiss what he thinks about Germans. The first thing he will mention is our alleged arrogance.

@Punchbear,
That girl looks... weird. She's not related to you is she? (If so, she's lovely. Gorgeous smile, intelligent eyebrows.)

That's me. Eating cheesecake. Last week.

He definitely made himself a joke with the "no sex...ooops no real sex..." thingy. Other than that nobody I knew at the time had anything against him. And yep, I was in Munich as well, plus I'm German so I probably understood a bit better what people said (and meant by it). No offense - I'm sure your German is still excellent. In any case Clinton was never as despised here as Bush is (by many people - Germans and non-Germans). His little affair with Monika certainly didn't make anybody "hate" the US.

No, they already hated the US. My point was that they will not love any US president. Not saying they should, just that they won't.

Which proves that you don't know what you're talking about.

@lefthandman
I completely agree, never thought that they have to either, however this everything was roses before Bush spiel is total horseshit.

They loved JFK and were prepared to shag him in broad daylight in the street.

I agree with that. I remember even as a young child the rants from the Germans against America and more specifically Americanization. But rest easy, it's not just Germany, it's pretty much the whole world, that's the price you pay for being the leader.

Whoever it was that compared it to how the Swiss feel about the Germans was right on.

We don't. Likewise, nobody should take my comment about Germany tongue-bathing America seriously - you got that taxidriver?


It was a joke in the US too - believe me. Save for a few (well publicized) yahoos nobody said that with any seriousness.


You're touching on where much/most anti-Americanism comes from. You can't escape Americana no matter where you go or what you do. It is everywhere. Every last one of you reading this post is doing so on a computer running a CPU designed in the US, probably with an American operating system. American TV plays daily on German channels. American celebrities endorse European products in Europe. Etc., etc., etc.

I can understand it. If I were inundated with Belgian culture, politics, and products my opinion of Belgium and Belgians would probably be irrationally soured.

That's an undercurrent which will exist so long as the US retains political/economic supremacy. There are peaks and valleys which sway people (post 9/11 - yay America! Bush/Iraq - boo America!). We're in a valley right now - when Bush is gone it will change. Fact. It won't be gone but it will be different than it is now.


A fair comparison. The same can probably be said of Canadians and Americans or Texans and New Yorkers or non-Ontarian Canadians and Ontarians.

If JFK had lived longer, they would have grown to hate him too. Why should any other country give a rip about our president? I don't care much about their leaders. I have made regular extended business trips to Munich throughout the Clinton and now Bush years. I know what I have observed. I don't care if anybody agrees or not. That's the beauty of opinions, we can all have our own.

You couldn't be more wrong. Most people here have grown up with US TV programs etc., love them and quite often don't even consider these things 'foreign' anymore. If anything, that stuff has made the US more popular since people have learned to identify with US characters in movies and books. Most popular US tv, movie or music stars have a lot of fans here as well. Sure people gripe about trashy shows - but that's directed at the particular shows, not at Americans or American culture in general. And I couldn't give a damn whether a CPU was designed in the US or in the Republic of Congo - if it works, it's fine with me. The same goes for any other products. It's the swaggering attitude of many Americans that riles people - and not only in this country. I don't think that's "irrational" .

seriously, you guys think that being one of the world superpowers comes without any disadavantages? everyone is going to kiss the ground you walk on and hail your intelligence and superiority?

it's much easier to get a little kick out of making this american guy over there fell awkward by asking stupid political questions.

You really think that the fact that American culture, media, products are inescapable has no effect? More than one Toytown thread has been devoted to American culture being "shoved down" people's throats* and the resentment that that creates.

* I prefer to call it capitalism. Don't like it? Don't buy it and it will go away.

So why should anybody hate your president? I have LIVED HERE throughout the Clinton and (mostly) the Bush years - I'd say that's a bit different to making business trips. I have talked to Germans every day - in fluent German - what's more, none of them wouldt have had any reason to talk nicely about Americans just to humour me. Yet I never experienced anybody professing any negativity towards the US back during the Clinton years. Maybe once again you're mixing up criticism of politics with "irrational hatred". Happens a lot as it seems.

Is there another one?

England.

I have done all those things as well and I disagree with you. Anti-Americanism was rampant long before this Bush came into office.

i would argue it has a hegemony but not a 'only superpower status'. that's just me.

Resentments against Americans though? Or against German TV broadcasters? When people complain that every stupid American fad is imported here and adopted by Germans - do they criticise Americans or rather those Germans who lap up every stupidity just because it comes from the US? Again - I got the impression that you find it hard to differentiate between people showing resentment against the Americanization of German culture and people showing resentment against Americans.

Unfortunately a lot of Germans have a hard time differentiating between the two as well and like to blame the individual American for the fact that their culture is being erroded by Americas

I'd like to refer everyone to a rather apt post by Marshbot:

Ain't that the truth. Brilliant!

I still have to come across one - but I'll notify you when I do.

My point is that nobody should kiss the ground or hail intelligence or superiority. Don't get hung up on some other country's politics. If I were German, I would be proud of Germany and all of the things right about my country. As an American, I am proud of all that is good here, I don't claim that everything is good. I don't claim to agree with everything. I am still proud to be an American and encourage everyone to be proud of their home country. Just don't get hung up on Bush and the whole eurovol version of recent US history.

Come with me into the Allgäu and I'll show you and entire county full of them.

I guess there’s an arms race still going on. At some point the U.S. is bound to lose. History always repeats itself. But I don’t think losing the top spot has to mean falling hard. It seems like the UK gave up the top spot some time around the end of the 19th century, but always remained a strong respected nation and a nice place to live. I think when the U.S. does give up the top position, most people won’t bear that much of a grudge, and it will have a similar standing to the UK. I think most people I know really like the U.S., but being the strongest power, and actively waging war, and claiming the moral high ground in a lot of cases trying to come off as being the most sophisticated, causes some people to feel a lot of negativity and react accordingly.

I think if the U.S. no longer had the strongest economy and military, it might be seen as a much more fun and friendly place, and draw far fewer negative comments.

right now though, all i see is some resentment towards america's policies by a few people, certainly no hatred or anti-americanism.

Ah! Quite true young lady, but not in actual power terms. We are obviously THE BEST, our shit don't stink (DW, take note... for those odourless kinky sex moments), our upper lips are stiffer than ANYBODY'S and even the terrorists are scared of us. You bomb our underground one more time and we'll send 500,000 England footie supporters having told them you insulted our goalkeeper. Then yer fucked!

The comparisons with Clinton are applicable as long as you use them to show that the varying degrees of disdain for America are always there, even when a president is popular globally. It shows that if it isn't US foreign policy (and then again, people should refresh their memories as far as US/Iraqi relations in the 1990s), it's how puritanical society, it's globalization, it's health cares, it's this that and the other.

Then again, Europeans hate everyone, including each other, so I think that Americans should take certain things with a grain of salt.

It would be much more apt to compare the allegedly unprecedented low opinion that people have of the United States now with the way things were during the Vietnam War...

How many Americans does the average German know and how long has he lived in America? I don't know any and have never lived there, so I do not judge the Americans because I don't know them. Maybe that many Germans think in stereotypes, but the same people start crying when they are called Nazi in England.

I don't think that the American TV-series made America more popular in Germany. Everybody knows that Colt Sievers and Jody are phantasy-characters and that real life in America is different. As to the stars, of course a lot of people like Richard Gere, but not because he is American. And I don't think that he is seen as an American in the first place, but as an actor, like every other actor as well.

Yes. From the vocal ones at least. Like anywhere, the Germans most likely to raise their voices and make a scene are the idiots on the fringe.

my point is the USA as a state has a great influence on our lives and therefore we have an opinion on it. read marshbot's post.


this leads into a totally new discussion. read this


people are not. anyone who has time to read, talk and listen to others, can make up their own mind.

Europeans have always been somewhat anti-american, as well as anti everyone else. (my experince from living in Germany from 28 years ago, and up untill recently)

Let's all have a group hug and m,ove on to another topic

Anyone still up for some cheesecake?

Hear, hear. It's all getting a bit repetitive.

It is not only Germans. Pretty much everyone in the world.
Be the top.
Be Jose Mourinho
Earn your fucking 160k.
People will hate you. Jealousy. Part of nature. We will live with it forever.

Hahaha - my stepsister and her family live in Günzburg - they are as pro-American as can be. I can't say the same for everybody in the Allgäu though: Unlike you I haven't met them all.

The only other time in history one nation held the so-called top spot of the western world power pyramid was back in the days of the Roman Empire. And we all know what happened after they fell. I'm not saying that having a single world super power is a great thing; it's just that nature abhors a vacuum. If the US falls, the nations that have been below it on the pyramid will all jockey for the top spot.

As for the UK giving up the top spot. It took two World Wars for that to occur. It's "strong respected nation and nice place to live" status is due to its alignment with one of the world’s superpowers. If they had failed to align themselves they would have not received any economic or military support.

Nation States cannot live in a vacuum. The world pyramid power structure is always present. In the cold war there were two nations at the top. In WWI several nations were maneuvering for the top spot. If the US falls from the top spot I would look for Russia or China to make a run for number one.

Russia’s nationalization of key energy supplies, it’s withholding of energy (Natural Gas) from Europe, and now its claim to parts of the North pole are indicators of a resurgent nation looking to move up the pyramid.

I am not stating that the US will or should remain in the top spot. I’m just a student of history and international relations. And history is a pretty good guide of possible scenarios for the future.

The American Empire is already decaying - it's only a matter of decades before it crumbles.

My bet's on China.

In which way does any of this refer to the post of mine you quoted? And in case it doesn't and you just got the quote wrong: Yep, some Germans like to think in stereotyps. So do some Americans. Some Germans like cheesecake. Doesn't mean that there's an overall trend.

Just for the record: I know two German girls who married Americans, 4 Germans who've lived in the US for more than a year and a LOT of people who've spent holidays in the US or went there on business trips. And that's just among those people I consider friends. Two of my best friends are Americans. Several of my friends have relatives in the US. The US is one of the most popular long-distance destination for Germans. There are US military bases all over Germany. Munich's teeming with Americans in summer...It's not exactly like we're talking about Papua New Guniea here.


Most people here appreciate that some US programs are very well made - I'm talking stuff like 24 or Prison Break here (you're a bit stuck in the 1980s methinks) and the same goes for popular music. While Holiwood movies are constantly critizised for being too soppy and unrealistic (here and elsewhere), people still love to see them. The Simpsons are proof that Americans can manage self-deprecating humour and parody themselves - it's probably one of the best-loved programs here and that's not because people love to laugh at Americans - it's a program that makes people laugh with them. If everybody "hated" everything American on principle you wouldn't find that many people enjoying all this stuff.

Group hug with cheesecake? YAY!

only in the American occupation zone ... alhamdulillah