Spit on by a random stranger

In my language school, there is a Thai girl, cute and nice personality. This afternoon, when she arrived at the classroom, she started to cry after someone asked:'Wie geht's?'
The story is: When she was at Hauptbahnhof waiting for subway(around 13:40), a 50-60 years old guy walked close to her, spit on her, shouted:'Scheiße!' and then left. She was shocked and stuck there, and no reaction, becuase she never met this before(she's been Germany more than one year).

I've been Germany around 4 months already, and have a good impression for Germany and general people. Till the moment, the impression is still not changed, because I figure that any groups has their 'black sheep'.

If this happened on me this afternoon, according to my personality, I would slap back. But since here is Germany, and I'm not familiar with local laws, so I have a question:
Will I be in any legal troubles(meaning against any law) if I slap back in case this happens to me?

The probability of that the same thing occurs to me, in my opinion, is very small, but who knows? So I would like to know if slap is not allowed or not? If not, I might spit back if I'm in the same situation(Of coz, if it's not only one person, but a group, I won't act).

So, How do you think? Thanks for your opinions in advanced.

PS: After the girl finished the story, our language teacher told us hers(she came from Slovakia, her parents are German): One day when she walked up along left side of escalator in a hurry, there was a tall German guy(she called him German guy , don't ask me why) stood on the left side and blocked her way. She said:'Entschuldigung', and the man turn his head back looking at her, with an unfriendly face, and shouted:'Haben Sie ein deutsch Pass?' I couldn't help laughing when I heard this.

Slapping someone in Germany is gonna get you in a whole world of shit if you are caught.

probably think 'weirdo' and then hopefully forget about it

Even if they spit on you and insult you first without reason.. I don't think the plod would care either way unless one or both want to file charges.
But as Bluedave said.. They'd have to catch you first.

I would imagine that the twat who started it would get in just as much trouble so I say: gouge, bite, pull hair, and scratch.

bern, put the coffee down

Sorry. Got a little carried away there.

Insulting someone is a minor crime, spitting on someone is minor assault, but hitting someone is definitely assault, again with the previously stated assumption that you are actually caught. That said, I'd have definitely twatted the fucker and to hell with any consequences. But that's just me. In the case of your female friend I'd definitely not recommend she hit out at a nutter. She'd be much better off speaking up for herself if there are other people around but keeping her distance.

This is one of the lowest levels of inhumanity when someone spits in your face. This happened to me once in Bad Homburg a German woman had the audacity to spit in my face and she didn't know she was bothering the wrong bitch person that day and before I realized it my natural reflexes had quickly taken over and I hit her in her mouth as hard as I could and called her a not very nice name. Then I went to the police station and made a police report that she spit in my face. Of course, I didn't tell the police I hit her and she was now walking around with either a few loose or missing teeth or a badly bruised mouth. The good thing is I had a witness to what happened and she didn't. I never heard anything else about it.

actually i only just noticed that the OP said 'spat ON her'. yeah that would piss me off a little actually

Holy shit, what an arsehole. How to react? Listen to your gut feeling. I am probably not a good influence on you in this case, will only get you into trouble. I would retaliate with all I've got. Have already had to defend my pale, white non-fluffy arse against the wannabe-superior-race a couple of times. Let me tell you this, when you do something against it, chances are many people will join in and side with you. At least, this is what I have experienced. You will not stand alone looking silly. Shutting up and walking on is wrong. Just tells the prick he can go ahead and do the same thing to the next person. This kind of thing makes my blood curl.

I agree because this only reinforces this horrid behavior and the person will only continue to treat people like this.

I think I'm probably the last person Ms. Bad Homburg spit on.

Your friend is one lucky B'stard to be spat on. I've been here 18 months and I haven't been spat on yet. Thats favouritism if you ask me.

Slap the bar steward that is classed as grievously body harm.When attacked you are allowed to defend yourself within reason

Legally you have a right to defend your honor:


The problem is with the last two sentences, you need to defend your honor with appropriate means. And this is where your slapping him comes in... it would probably be considered Notwehrexzess.


By the way, the Notwehr has to be immediately after the attack, not 10 minutes later, not 5 mins later.

I'd advise you not to do it, though, if you can; instead report it to the police, that would be a better idea.

Edit: Like MikDickinson said, the problem lies with the "within reason". Try looking up similar cases and see what came off them. (See if the defending person was ruled to be only defending themselves.)

Another paragraph relevant to self-defense:

If you slap him, you bring yourself down to his level. Also, as it seems it was a spit-and-run incident, you would probably have to then go after the guy to actually slap him, which makes you seem a lot more aggressive. Speaking from experience (not of being spit on, but similar acts of aggression) if he hung around long enough for me to get over the shock and actually do something, I probably would have lashed out too or had a few choice things to yell at him. But really, not acting physically would be the smarter thing to do. Especially as I've yet to see a Thai woman who I'd place money on to win in a fight.

Exactly. Unless she's that Thaweesuk girl who just got released from prison she has every chance of getting a smack back which would do more than just upset her.

As the man in the pub in Bundoran said last night "Head - elbow - fist - work the feet".

I saw the same thing happening a few years ago in East Germany. A defenseless very old woman spat in the face of a black guy. I could not believe my eyes. I realize that this, while not common at all, is not an isolated incident. Could any German explain what you think it goes through the head of these old nuts?

mindset of an old nutter is easy "-------------------------------hrumph--------------------------------------twat--------------------------------------------bigot-----------------------------------something new aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah-------------------------------------hrumph------------------------------grrrrrr young person---------------------------------------------GRRRRRRR stranger------------------------------------------GGGGRRRRRRR funny looking stranger--------------------------------------------------------------------------------"

As i remember it Rudi Voller got a little pissy about Frank Rijkaard spitting at him.

But I have not seen nor heard about old people spitting on foreigners anywhere else, which is a very dangerous thing for them to do.

Oh really? For me punching her in her mouth was defending myself against her thinking this was an acceptable way for her to treat me. She could have had HIV or something else contagious. This is very lowdown and extremely nasty and you shouldn't go around spitting on people. It's uncivilized. As adults we should be able to use our words to express our feelings, however, when someone is so brazen to spit in your face, I think the response has to be in proportion with the offense and I felt very justified in hitting Ms. Bad Homburg dead in her mouth and would do it again if this ever happens to me again. I don't bother people when I'm out and I certainly don't want to be bothered with someone spitting on me. I'm more than willing to accept whatever consequences that I would reap from doing this, just walking away is not an option for me.

Sinderbox, I think not that much is going on in their little narrow-minded racist brains. I cannot quite follow such a train of thought as I would never be that disrespectful to anyone, I am not that hateful, but maybe they feel the need to make themselves feel superior, better than others, maybe they're miserable... they put the blame for that on other people rather than themselves.
It is very stupid and dangerous, but I don't think people think that far.

If a guy spits on you and he is stronger than you, it might be wise to walk away, if you slap him, he might consider that an invitation to beat you up.

I guess it must be the same thing that went on in the head of the old nut who knocked me down in Golders Green bus station for no apparent reason. I wouldn't really count on people siding with you in such a situation btw - in my case they were all fecking busy to look the other way. But then, I'd probably not interfere either when a fat old bastard's attacking a 17 year old girl half his size. That bloke wasn't German btw.

Just for the record: That wasn't an isolated incident either. Maybe it's time to remind you that while you as foreigners might have some unpleasant experiences here, a lot of people have similar unpleasant experiences in your home countries - would you be able to explain what goes on in the heads of those countrymen of yours who act like nutcases?

No offense, mate - but just because I share the same nationality as those arseholes doesn't mean I'm an expert in what makes them tick.

There are other arguments against such racist attacks as these spitting incidents, HIV risk is not one of them:

http://www.aidshilfe.de/index.php?id=2444&...hlight=speichel

Yep, being German does not mean I can understand all actions of all Germans. Asking a psychologist might make more sense because I am sure behavior like this has been analyzed before. Yahoo Answers

Yes nuts that hate foreigners you can find in almost every country, as your experience shows. However what caught my attention is that these attackers are old defenseless people and they all use spitting as their means. The courage or stupidity of these people is unparalleled. I do not imagine a racist old defenseless woman in Beverly Hills attacking a young black guy passing by, their sons could, but not her. And the fact that they all do spitting is weird to say the least.

[Edit]My question was oriented at the common profile of these people. I thought that maybe a German could better explain that pattern

There was a topic here a while ago why old people in Germany are so rude and bitter... zee's reply to it was very good (here: Why are old people in Germany so aggressive?. That may be part of that. And I think in Germany people are just less aware of fights like that turning into more...

Actually it makes a lot of sense: They'd probably collapse if they as much as tried to raise their walking sticks. But seriously - spitting doesn't take physical strength, it's a sign of utter contempt, it's nothing that might get them in major trouble (at least with the police, as actual violance might) - it's the infantile cowardly infirm bastard's thundering left hook, so to speak.

Again, I'm not quite sure why you think a German could better explain "that pattern". As I tried to point out to you, it's not a German pattern - there's vicious bitter old folks in every country and they will take out their viciousness on those who in their mind will be least able to fight back. Which in your homecountry, in all likeliness won't be you. Some of them might be senile enough to believe that coloured people have no legal means to fight back/won't find any support if they try - but that's just as true for old people in the US and in Britain as for old people here.

This happened to me as well some time ago, not in a little village but here in Berlin, I got spat at and called scheisse, the name calling on the street/ubahn has happened to me at least 5 times, it is NOT uncommon at all...

Bravo! I totally agree!

Wow, that is pretty harsh. I have been spat at twice, but here in the States. Luckilly, they missed both times.

I saw some eccentric behavior in Germany, but nothing like that. Mostly people just losing their temper and snarling up a storm over something trivial.

I know I can't get HIV (good to see folks are actually paying attention to what is written) from her spitting on me, but the point I'm trying to make is I don't want to share anyone's body fluids without giving them my consent.

Lastly, I really would like to think this woman's behavior was not motivated by racism, but who knows.

Yell "Du Saubär!" at the top of your voice, grab a hankie, wipe it off. I wouldn't bother retaliating, he's not worth it.

Such behaviour is I would say most likely the result of racism though there are general crazies around as well.

They think they can get away with it for a number of inter-connected reasons:

They victim is likely to be shocked / upset and not involve the police.
The likelyhood of the police supporting the foreign victim against a German perpetrator isn't exactly the highest.
Any retaliation from the victim will be used to muddy the waters.

Incidently, in Bristol in the UK, all buses have "spit kits" that are used to collect saliva if a member of staff is spat on for use in court proceedings.

Monkstown, you forgot another reason they think they can get away with it; they pick targets such as young Thai women rather than strapping young fellows from Togo or Pakistan.

I have my differences with CCTV; but would it catch someone spitting unprovoked at someone else?

@BD

fcuking good shot though!

HIV as has been mentioned, is not an issue, however Tuberculosis is. Given the increase of cases in eastern Europe and the rise of multi drug resistant TB, saliva is not something I want all over my face.

I think writing a letter to the newspaper or contacting a local immigrants rights group or something similar would be your best bet. As long as there's no public discussion, these wankers will continue to get away with it.

I'd fuck the Mutha Fucka up old skool! Then I'd take their wallet, pull their card and piss in their face. Then I'd have a real good excuse to leave this hell hole.

Sorry, really bad mother of my newborn son problems. She would probably have me apologize to them for being an auslander.

I was just wondering about a situation like this the other day, so thanks for posting those quotes up about what exactly the legal stance in Germany is regarding self-defense.

I just wanted to add that incidents like these happen without any racism involved as well. Two years ago a couple weeks before Christmas my girlfriend and I were trying to get off a crowded train at rush hour at Frankfurt Hbf. As usual, a wall of people pushed all the passengers trying to get out back onto the train, but I was in no mood for it this time. So when a guy just about pushed my girlfriend to the ground by shoving her backwards with his large suitcase as he shoved it onto the train, I called him an "Arschloch" to his face.

That got no reply, but he did wait until he was behind me to let loose and punch me in the head several times. By the time I had turned around and got my fists up to go at it with him, a woman had physically inserted herself between us and was yelling for us to "Hör auf!" My girlfriend was already off the train and halfway down the platform, so she never got to catch any of this, unfortunately.

Things I learned from this incident:

Incidents like this (spitting, insults, pushing, etc.) escalate very very quickly, so if you are think you are ready to push back, just know that the other person may take it to the next level, and you won't have any say about that.

These things happen so quickly that if you are not ready for it, you'll never get your insult or slap in the face in before the other person has run off. You have to pretty much react instantaneously to get in a retaliation.

Random people will get in the way to try to break up a fight. I know for myself personally, the next time someone inserts themself between me and someone I am planning on hitting, they do so at their own risk. Just my opinion, but I find the idea of physically inserting my own body between two individuals in a fist fight not to be terribly intelligent.

Getting into a physical confrontation may be exciting at the moment, but can have very real unpleasant consequences afterward. Guy that cuts my hair had the shit beat out of him by an intoxicated acquaintance whose car keys he refused to return. He now has a permanent disability, since he lost 40% of his hearing in one ear. Also ended up spending more time at the dentist than he had planned on. He's been to court several times already and will have to go several more times still, but hasn't seen any compensation yet, although this all happened over half a year ago.

Just some things to ponder.

I've had it happen to myself (rude swearing, not spitting) I'm white and dont think you could tell i was not german just from looking at me. what did i do wrong?? spoke english and looked like i lived here..enough to get all kinds of spewings about auslanders.. in all cases the offenders were older than dirt.. and while i come from the south and ive been trained since birth to respect the elderly i couldnt help but telling them to fuck off and get out of my face.. the last on was while i was nannying and this old guy was having a go at me and 3 little boys and i was not going to have it.shut him right up in front of a whole train of shocked germans (he said it on the platform then followed us on) but must say i was very impressed that as soon as they all understood the situation... they were all clearly on myside..and he mostly got glares form all around. i felt better, and i know the boys felt better, and think i taught them a lesson that they should never stand for that.. (i tried being polite and walking away first by the way)

Probably because the young gentleman would pull out a chrome .45 and shoot her fucking head off

Not saying that this wasn't a racist thing, but what keeps me wondering is that the guy who attacked the Thai girl supposedly shouted "Scheisse". It's like an English person shouting "f*ck" - not exactly what people would go for when trying to insult somebody. Might be that she just misheard what he said ("Scheissausländer"?) - might be that the guy was just in a foul mood, probably drunk, and venting his frustration at the world at large by spitting and swearing. I'm sure everybody who's hanging around Hauptbahnhof (or any major train station in any country) regularly knows the type. Not that this makes his behaviour any more acceptable.

It's just that I've seen a lot of posts on here where expats seem to be more than happy to blame whatever happens to them on Germans being racist by definition - so the mean old bastard upstairs is a nazi and doesn't greet you because you're a foreigner, people walking behind you from the underground station are nazis out to get you, people who look at you "obviously" do so thinking "Scheißausländer", the guy who shouts "Nazi" at you does so by way of introducing himself etc. etc. I fully understand that living in a foreign country can be daunting in many ways - more so if you don't understand the language. Been there myself. But I seriously get the impression that a number of people come here fully expecting to get attacked for being a foreigner and believing every German a nazi until proven otherwise and then interpret every incident in a way to fit their own expectiations and prejudices.

Yeah, the address is in the phone book next to military intelligence.

Joking aside, I wonder if the newspapers or indeed almost anyone is going to get upset by this realtively low level but extremely unpleasant assault.

IF you managed to get the police or whatever, the perpetrator will have probably have long gone.
The chances of detaining them or forcing to get their name and adress out of them are slim.

If the police turn up the racist old codger just says:

Me? shouting "Scheiße" and spitting on someone?
No, I just sneezed. Did some get on this girl? 'schuldig'n.
Maybe cos she's foreign she didn't understand me cursing having hayfever in bodenständiger boarisch, gell...

don't forget, you can catch HIV by holding hands too


few sherbets last night mods?

No, just Canadian grammar. Guess you just learnt something new today BR.

Thanks for all of your comments d info!

If I’m in the case, I have to say I wouldn’t like to degrade myself by spitting back(I admit that this tiny small group who do these are nuts, and I should not behave similar like a nut), but thinking of someone get ‘damaged’(emotion/honour), and the one who cause the ‘damage’ just walk away without any punishments and maybe they feel very high in their day about what they did and then they would keep doing these to the next victim, I just feel quiet sour.

At this point, I agree with MB and LR. If we can return the same bad feeling to the nuts, so next time they might will think about a few seconds what they might get back before they act.
it’s a bit hard to get other people to invlove to support you for this kind of minor assault (spitting on or swearing). I asked this girl what the people around her reacted. She said they just stood there and wacthed. (Bern, are you there too? )

And about the issue if reaction would casue the whole things escalated? I’m thinking about it...Why these strangers didn’t pick some much stronger people as their target, maybe because they’re just cowards. Once they confront retaliation, I suspect that they would stay and make things bigger.

According to lots of info here, it shows: it’s beter not retaliate unless you’re sure you won’t get caught. So now I have a technical question here:
Be caught by who? Of coz generally not by policeman, because if there is any policemen around, the nut dare not to practice. So the left possibility is ‘be caught’ by the people who are around you. Will a lot of people help the nut if they see all of things, I’m cusrious...