London congestion charge for foreign cars

Motorbikes are exempt from the charge, so it shouldn't have affected you. Even if you had no transport options outside of London, you could drive to a train station and catch the train in. We're not talking about all London here, only a small bit in the middle where public transport is excellent.

Except that it is 50% less than I pay in Somerset for just going a few stops to the shops.

Well, I know that, but in principle I am against this 'charge'. I am already paying for the usage of the roads so why should I have to fork out more if I decide to use my car to pick up my outlaws from Victoria etc.

The tax on motor vehicles is that, NOT an "entitlement" to use the road.
Your outlaws (love that ) arriving at Victoria could continue their journey by public trasnport of which there is LOADS in Central London.

How about the levies on the fuel etc. Does that count for anything? Where does the money come from? Surely, Ken does not pay it from his own pocket so I must be paying for it one way or another.

In real terms the cost of driving a car in the UK has been FALLING IIRC since around the mid 1960s.
The real term cost of using public transport however has been increasing.

Neither road tax or fuel tax are ring fenced but go into the big pot.
Afaik, London Congestion Charge monies are ring fenced.
So minus the rake off for Crapita, it goes on transport spending in London.

You have to pay extra because the place is jam packed and it's better for everyone if you stop being lazy and get on public transport rather than being selfish and taking your car.

What Boris fucking Johnson and consorts hate about it is that the money they pay when they drive the 4x4 through Mayfair
might end up being spent to improve buses to a run down estate in Harlesden.

Yes, but if they did that there would be more working class people in the city and that just wouldn't do old boy

Thanks for that. It does have 9 seats but they were all folded down as bus was full of camping kit. I forwarded all info on to the guy in charge and he has decided to leave it until they get in touch with us. Not the approach I would have taken but as I said not my vehicle so out of my hands. I am just the Miss Information. I told them all it was not a good idea to take the bus through London but they decided to ignore my advice and do it anyway!


I agree the scheme is a good one and if it did help congestion in a city like Frankfurt I'd be happy to either pay it or leave my car at home. Sady I do not see this being the case.


Ok well I was not being selfish at all. In fact considering I had just spent two weeks of my holidays looking after other peoples kids 24 hours a day without getting paid for it I'd say it was a pretty selfless act Also considering the place was still jam packed I don't think it actually does make that much of a difference...

I wasn't having a go at you.. I'm just saying in general..

It might still be jammed packed, but it was worse before. I was living there when they changed over and the difference was really noticeable. Either way, at least all the car drivers are paying 5 quid now to improve public transport.

The reason London was jam packed was because our esteemed mayor Ken changed the phasing on the traffic lights about 18 months to a year before the CG was introduced. Traffic lights that were normally fast were taking up to 2 minutes to change and then letting out half a dozen cars, and then the next light further down the street was not turning green as you approached it, as it should if you want to ensure smooth traffic flow. Anyone who has lived and driven in Central London knows this is the case. Miraculously once the charges were introduced, the light phasing was reprogrammed and traffic seemed lighter. This was confirmed by studies done on the timing of traffic lights within the zone but denied as a reason to introduce a money making scheme to shore up London Transport. Supposedly the money goes into improving the roads, London Underground and bus system but that is as expensive and poorly run as ever. It makes me laugh the amount of speed camera they have because going over 30mph would be a luxury!
Yes, I'm sure the charge has eliminated a small percentage of vehicles from Central London but stationary traffic is still commonplace.

The charge is now £8 a day or £10 if you forget and pay it the next day.

Any chance of a link to those studies Nicole?
Cos I think that's a load of old toffee.
Traffic planners re-tune traffic lights to get the maximum effeciencies for the most logicl journies at the most logical time of day.

If there had been political interference to deliberately worsen the efficiency of the traffic light system there would have been an outcry so i look forward to the links to those studies.

Just Google it, it was reported in many newspapers. TFL denied the lights were re phased to increase congestion but to give pedestrians longer to cross the road. The charge was also bought in at the beginning of half term when the roads are markedly quieter so as to give the appearance that it was a miraculous cure to the traffic Problems. The complaints of rephasing the lights were not made by just a few people, ask anyone who lived and drove into London at the time and they will tell you how it was.

Didn't need to check a study. Before Ken put his tax on, the traffic lights at the top of Northumberland Avenue to Trafalgar Square were on green for 3 (yes THREE - I counted them) seconds. After the tax was imposed they changed to 11 seconds. In terms of traffic flow, this makes a huge difference. A friend who works for Ken will not deny that this is the case.

And while we review your communist diatribe elsewhere, Boris "fucking" Johnson (as you delightfully call him) has driven a bicycle around London for years, well before you "Eco-warriors" decided thet it would be trendy to hitch your wagon to this cause. He also does not drive a 4x4 Chelsea tractor (so emotive, don't you think?) through Mayfair.

"Trendy" "Eco warrior" dear?
Me dear?
No dear.

I've been well in favour of public transport and making cars less attractive since I was in short trousers.

I'll go away and look for some proper studies on the the phasing of lights then.
An anti-Ken rant in the Evening Substandard just won't cut it.

There's plenty of crossings in Central London where the sheer number of pedestrians outnumber car passengers.
Why shouldn't they get more time.

Indeed, the whole point of the policies Ken has persued (and yes the man DOES have his faults) is to make driving in Central London LESS attractive.

I have no problem with giving pedestrians all the time they require to cross the road, nor making Central London less attractive to drive in. Its the underhand way in which it was sold to Londoners and the sactimonious "oh, look how clever I've been" once the lights were rephased (temporarily - he had to screw them up again to sell the Kensington and Chelsea extension). I mean what I say about the Northumberland Aveneue traffic lights. I was caught in a cab as two to three cars were let through, just before the tax, and timed them. Did the same thing a week after the tax was imposed. You now get about 8 to 10 cars through at a time. These are not unique.

The initial responses I am getting back it that the lights were altered to give pedestrians more time to cross
not to provide a justification for the CC. I am waiting to hear from a friend foa friend who actually works for TfL.

It's maybe a pat answer but one person said one of the reasons that the traffic seemed to flow better after the CC was that there was simply less traffic.

Off his own bat, one friend of mine said that with with the western extension (which I personally have differences with) he spcificly monitored the phasing of the lights on his journey before during and after and he saw no changes.

There is no doubt that, initially, fewer people were willing to pay the charge than had previously driven into Central London and that contributed to the lower traffic volume. However, phasing of lights was also a factor. My contact is also in TfL in a fairly senior capacity (quite an interesting job, but to tell you what it was would be to identify her and I can't do that). Every time I ask the question about phasing, she just looks at me (I tell her that such loyaly to Ken is not worth it!).

There are "issues" with Ken but he manages to get re-elected!

If only three or fours cars make it through the lights at a go but X times as many pedestrians make it across then seems a fair enough deal no?

It reminds of in Munich of how the CSU froth and moan against the "Grüne Welle" for trams whereby they can "trip" traficc lights.
Well why not?

No, because the rest of the cars back up and spew out carcinogenic fumes. Step out of your politically motivated world for a minute (CSU, fucking Tories versus the poor downtrodden of Harlesden) and jump into the real world. Even if you got rid of 50% of the Chelsea tractors and 30% of all other cars, you still have the largest polluters on the road (buses, taxis, old Ford Transits which haven't had an MOT for years, all the 3 tonne delivery trucks which need to deliver because the stores won't pay for people to do night duty to receive goods). I am not saying you need to give the pedestrians less time, I am arguing for the traffic to be allowed to flow to reduce journey times and consequently the fumes they produce. London traffic lights are some of the worst phased I have ever come across, either in the UK or abroad. London is not a gridded city and therefore comparisons with the US are not viable, but this surely means that huge resources should be plowed into making sure that it flows as well as possible, not into slowing into a gridlock.

And there's me thinking that London has seen a massive introduction of new cleaner buses over the last few years...
A bus might well churn out what, 4 times as much pollutants as a car but it can carry what, fifty times as many people.
The pollutants per passenger mile from a dirty old bus are still less than the newest "greenest" car.

How on EARTH can you take politics out of the issue of urban transport?
It's been one of the biggest issues bezween progressive and conservative politicians in London for the last 20 years
and between London and central government for the last 20 years.

Nobody travels on busses BECAUSE THE SODDING TRAFFIC LIGHTS ARE CONSTANTLY ON RED

Except that London has seen massive increases in the use of buses compared to just about everywhere else in the UK...

I personally think though that Oxford Street in particular is over crowded with buse on overlapping routes, personally I'd prefer routes to terminate at Tottenham Court Road, Marble Arch and trafalgar Square and there be some kind of tram system.

partly due to lack of deregulation in London I guess - making it much easier to have a joined up public transport system

Ideedy Mr Rat, buses outside of London are a horror AND more expensive.

To answer the original question , the owner will recieve a bill for 160 euros from a German Inkasso Firma , which is fully legally binding , non payment after a month reults in a Mahnung with an extra 70 euro mahn gebuhr ! ( I know this because my ex boss recived this ) . Is you still dont pay you then get taken to court or the baliffs come round !!!

( ineresting ? point ; In Austrian German a bailiff is officially an EXECUTOR !!! )

FYI: a friend of mine got nailed with Italian plates - got a letter in the mail with a picture of her car and the license plate.

that 'll teach her hopefully she'll stop nickin Italian plates