So let's talk about Nazis

So I moved here 3 months ago straight from Edmonton, Alberta, Canada. I'm a 27 year old Canadian born Chinese.

I dunno, been trying to sort out my thoughts about this and I'm on the fence.

To keep this short, yesterday as I'm walking to the Ubahn (Obersendling) from work, I'm listening to my ipod on a pretty good volume. I'm in a pretty good mood for several reasons. Anyway, I'm on my way to the ubahn and I catch a glimpse of this nut wearing pure black in the blistering heat crossing the stree on to the same sidewalk I'm on. No biggie. Nobody else on the sidewalk, the kid's about 40 feet away from me. I was in the middle of the sidewalk, but I mosey on over to the right side so as to obey normal flow of traffic rules (i.e. common sense and just general courteosy). The kid looks about 16-18'ish. Young enough to not know any better, anyhow.

Again, nobody else on the sidewalk at this moment in time but him and I. Some reason I see numbnuts walk directly in my line of travel. I figure no biggie, if he can't negotiate commone courteosy, I'll bump into him. About 15 feet away, I take a closer look and notice this kid has a shaved head with a mohawk, wearing pure black and for some odd reason he's wearing a black bandanna over his face. Aaaaaaaand he's staring directly at me.

My mind went through a series of thoughts and I'll spare you the details, but I chalked it up as bad fashion sense. I've had nothing but good experiences with the Germans here so why should this kid be any different? I figured if the kid's going to get violent, so be it. He weighed 130lbs max. I weight 210lbs so I'd beat him like he was a quadrapalegic.

About 3 feet away from me he gets out of my way and screams something at me. The only word I catch over my ipod is the last word, "NAZI!!" I give him this partially confused and partially mad look, but didn't break stride and neither did he. He didn't look back or nothing, but just kept walking.

Like wtf? So I begin processing what just happened and go through a gauntlet of emotions –hate, indifference, confusion, etc. How can someone be so blindly "proud" about his beliefs hide behind a bandana? Obviously he doesn't want anyone seeing his face. He's like a walking oxymoron – "proud coward". You go up to a complete stranger with enough hate to yell your 2 cents at him, but don't hate him enough to do anything else? What if the stranger understood what the hell you just said and beat the living hell out of you? You're small… if I had a 2 year old sister, my sister would be able to make you eat out of your own asshole.

So yeah, it totally shifts a normal person's mindset beyond the realm of normality and into places most people really should have no need to visit. What do I do next time? Do I do something next time? Is it worth it? If I beat a Nazi in a fit of rage, will it make me a hippocrite? Stuff like that. I still don't know how to take the situation.. mentally that is. I've encountered racists in Canada before, but those always ended violently and in that sense it was pretty cut and dry (even then, the racists in Canada don't understand racism... they just hate simply because people are different -I'm assuming Nazi's have a reason. Like real hate. Just going off from what I've seen on TV cause I've never encountered or known of a Nazi in Canada). With him walking away, it sort of leaves a person with no closure. Not saying I wanted to fight the kid cause I'm a bit old for that, but yeah, again, bit confused about the whole situation.

So I guess my questions are as follows: Are there a lot of Nazis is Munich? Are they violent? Are there any 'hot spots' for Nazis? Anybody ever encounter one?

I dunno whether to be remotely concerned about this or not. I've spoke to other friends about this and there've been people who've lived in Munich for years without so much as knowing a friend of a friend that's seen one.

In 3.5 months here I've bumped into 3. The first two were together and just followed me for a few blocks and then veered off for whatever reason. Didn't say anything or do anything. This kid is the third Wondering what'll happen if I bump into a bigger one.

Unfortunate cause stuff like this makes a person of color wonder why people stare now. Are they passive racists too? Why are you staring? Are you a Nazi? Who knows, I might very well be blowing this out of proportion. I've dealt with racists my whole life, but dunno how to take it in one of the countries where it supposedly originated.

Thoughts?

Sounds like he was calling you a Nazi. Were you wearing that t-shirt with the swastika on it instead of a maple leaf? I've warned you about that before!

Plus, don't think the mohawk fits with a neo-nazi image. They tend to go for the cleaner cut I thought.

Sounds like he was simply a nutter. We've got plenty of them knocking about.

Sounds like he was drug- or heataddled.

Plus as keydeck said the optics fit closer to a member of the left end of the political spectrum, more like the black block involved in the violent G8 protests or the autonomous scene.

The behaviour of course is way off the bonkers scale, I think there are probably more nutters in Munich than nazis.

Edit: Racism originates in every country.

This sounds very strange but I think it is very unlikely he was a Nazi.

"He weighed 130lbs max. I weight 210lbs so I'd beat him like he was a quadrapalegic. "

Later on we'll discuss some of your hobbies and whether or not they are entirely appropriate in a modern society

guess it wasn't so much of a traditional mohawk. hair where there would be a mohawk, but buzzed. shaved everwhere else.

He sounds like one of the munich punks, who thinks the whole world owes him something. The mohawk is usually one of their haircuts.. and certainly not a nazi. The punks usually feel pretty bad about everything and anything, and anyone to them who doesnt fit in their way is a nazi...

He said "NAZI" to you and you want to know if there are many Nazis in Munich? Could you elucidate!

Sounds to me like he was a twat, rather than a 'Nazi'. Nice to see that the Greengrocer's apostrophe has reached Canada.

Most probably a Punk.

Sounds like a verbal form of Godwin's Law

How did you identify the first two as Nazis, considering they "just followed" you "and then veered off"?

Every day I get followed down the street by people who eventually vere off. Some of them wear black clothing and some of them are clearly women. I think they are either Nazi's or CIA.

On an unrelated topic, where is a good place to buy tinfoil in Munich?

Sorry to hear of your experience, although it isn't exactly clear what that guy said so its hard to infer his intentions.

I was sharing a place in Dublin for a while before moving to Munich. One of my house-mates was a lovely Chinese girl who had just moved to Ireland directly from China. Through her experiences I got a feel of what it must be like for a foreigner in my home country.

A few times she encountered some ignorant, teenage local lads who had very few prospects in life, were bored and looking for trouble. When they met her alone on the streets they shouted the usual racist insults, tried to intimidate her and were generally quite disgusting. She handled it well, but was nearly in tears and quite frightened when she arrived home. She asked me many of the same questions you posed - is this normal, what can I do, where are the dodgy spots in the city ...

I was at a loss to give her advice and was very ashamed at the behaviour of my fellow country-men, hoping above all that she wouldn't judge the locals based on them. There are uneducated, ignorant racists everywhere. But do try to rise above it and don't assume people are all alike. Don't make the same mistake as these idiots and jump to conclusions.

agree with dreamer.

i sometimes cross the street because i don't want to run into some scrary looking people coming the other way.

That's probably just Don Riina. He's harmless enough.

You can buy it almost anywhere but it is de rigueur apparel here: Expats in Silver Hats II

He was probably objecting to the noise coming from your ipod, and considers people with too loud ipods to be noise nazis. He has a point actually.

Are you sure these were not just punks/goths on their way home?

I have seen a few punks in supermarkets and quite a few goths in the English garden last week (during the Japanfest) and they were quite well-mannered - seem to be more into the fashion/lifestyle rather than into causing any trouble.

Maybe he said 'Noisy' and not 'Nazi'

So basically... Two people were on there way somewhere: initially, the route happened to be in the same direction as you and they happened to have joined that street at a later time than you (hence being behind). Then they simply changed direction when their route went a different way.

I believe, you sir, are paranoid

I hope the Spaniard doesn't see this thread.

Garibaldi, I actually looked at it expecting to see that you had mentioned me. ¡Qué sorpresa!

Didn't want to go into detail about that one cause otherwise it would have made my post into a novel.

I was in Magdeburg for a business trip and I was with a coworker straight from China who barely speaks English. I didn't know it at the time, but apparently we were walking from a dodgy part of the city.

On my way to a site visit, we passed by a bunch of abondonned buildings and I noticed a few spray paintings on them and I asked my friend, "what does 'raus' mean?" She said that it pretty much means, "get out" and asked why. I told her cause there's a spray painting on the wall beside us (we were at a red light) that said, "Nazis raus". This was my second week in Germany, I didn't even consider of ever encountering a Nazi in my life so this sort of made things a bit... I dunno, made things a bit more real for me. I admit, I got a bit paranoid. Not even going to go into what I was thinking at the time -just sorta gave me flash backs of some pretty vicious chilhood memories.

Back to the story... we passed a group of 4 kids just standing about in front of a shop. Again, these kids were around the 16-20 range it seemed. While we were a good ways away from them, one guy caught sight of us, said something to his other friends and they all started staring at us. All 4 were dressed almost identical and looked similar. shaved heads, black boots and black/green solid cargos.

As we passed them, they all blatantly glared at us never once taking their eyes off of us. I tried not to stare so as to invite any sort of comment, but as we passed I noticed one guy -he had a bunch of patches all over his jacket. One patch in particular caught my eye and it was of a bird sitting something. Dunno what it was and I didn't bother to look into detail. Just one I seemed to remember at the time. After I got back to my hotel I searched a bunch of Nazi emblems/signs and it looked almost identical to an eagle carrying a swastika with its talons. Might not have been, but I'm going by memory at this point in time and it was a glance.

I dunno if my coworker noticed or not, but regardless I told him to cross the street on to the other side. We crossed the street about 30-40 meters after we passed them, but as we crossed the street, I looked both ways to check traffic and noticed two of the guys broke from the group and crossed the street too. We weren't walking in a straight path either and made a couple of turns within the next 3 blocks and hey, I dunno, call me paranoid, but they made the same turns as us. Call me paranoid, but in that case, I'd rather heir on the side of caution and not play Mr Tough Guy or Mr Curious and I'm definately not going to assume the best. Maybe they were coincidentally on their way somewhere similar to us. Maybe not. Maybe they were going to do something, but changed their minds. Maybe they were close to a friend's house and wanted more people to join in on the staring action. Your guess is as good as mine.

Maybe you're right and they were on their way to somewhere legitimate. Either way, it, at the very least, alarmed me a bit. Stirred a few emotions in me. I'm glad to hear you've never been in that situation before cause it messes with a person.

Canada and Germany are a completely different ball game. The punks here are clearly distinguishable from nazi's and nazi's would not have a mohawk. What you met was a self proclaimed social reject punk. I don't know if you have these people living anywhere else in the world however they are certainly unique. I used to live in an apartment above where a bunch (I mean a LOT) of the guys moved in. They were surprisingly ok as neighbors and I was much more disturbed by other neighbors in the building.

However I don't think you should take it really as racism that one of these guys shouted at you actually if you were well dressed and listening to an ipod you probably got the same treatment as the masses.

I remember during the world cup last year the nazi's demonstrated. They were allowed to demonstrate in Regensburg where there was nothing world cuppish happening. I almost felt sorry for them they way they where being treated. There was maybe twenty or so that had the balls to show up and they were surrounded by crowds protesting them which was very large. They were all just standing there looking like a bunch of losers. docs, dark jeans white t-shirt, and a padded black jacket, and very closely cut hair (almost shaved) is the uniform.

As for beating people up in Germany I would avoid it as much as possible. Firstly it's not your country and you are here as a guest. Secondly it's not to fun getting charged with violent crimes in germany and as foreign guest it can open a whole can of worms.

Don't forget that current trends in the neo-nazi scene are moving away from bomber jackets, combat boots, shaved heads and other obvious outward signs. a neo nazi is just as likely to be dressed in punk or skateboard fashion as in the more usual skinhead gear.

Todays lesson: How to distinguish between a Punk and a Neo-Nazi

Punks:

Exhibit 1

Neo-Nazis:

Exhibit 2
Exhibit 3
Exhibit 4

The classical Neo-Nazi flaunts a rather unhealthy skin colour(Exhibit 4), wears dark clothes which are horribly matched(Exhibit 3) and has no hair(Exhibit 4). Note the stretched out arm position as seen in Exhibit2.

The classical Punk has red, healthy, sporty cheeks (Exhibit 1) from always having to run away from the Pigs, has a mohawk and a rather uninspired-unique way of dressing(see Exhibit 1 again for reference).

The specimen which attacked me would best be portrayed by Exhibit4. Oh, and I am not Chinese nor Black nor do I in anyway look anything but European.

Sir, I believe you mixed up a punk for a Nazi. The punk was probably feeling that you behaved Nazi-like in some or other way and felt it approriate to yell "Nazi!" at you.

I doubt he was calling him a Nazi... -Unless the Aryan race now includes Chinese

Talk about narcissism.
At least you refrained from giving advice on staying in Germany.
You're probably not a bad sod at heart.
...and why does the US military appear to prefer skinhead haircuts for the recruits?

Goodness gracious me, I didn't even look at the username on this one. I thought the original poster was female.

umm thanks for the lesson, i think.

again, as I mentioned before, this guy had a mohawk, but not your stereotypical one as his head was completely except for a strip down the middle which was buzzed. so it was like a mini mohawk. I know how a punk/skid looks like -we got em all over Canada and if I were to judge this kid as a nazi vs a punk/skid, I would say that he looked convincingly more like a nazi than a skid. Though I'm not saying he is one anymore after reading through people's thoughts. He was wearing pure black and no metal on him whatsoever, that I noticed.

*shrug*

garibaldi- let's hope you don't accuse me of posting too much as I reply to your frivolous post and those of your co-conspirators.

The US military demands crew cuts in most training environments. These are short haircuts, but not to the skin, therefore they are not neo-Nazi haircuts. They are short haircuts for hygenic reasons, not as you fervently wish, anything remotely resembling a skinhead's haircut.

Chinese Nazis - The Article
Chinese Nazis - The Movie (click on "watch report"and watch until the end)
Perhaps the punk thought he was one of those Nazis.

I never know what to say when a Chinese guy in a business meeting somewhere in the PRC tells me with a wide smile that Adolf Hitler was one of the greatest leaders and statesmen of all time - has happened to me several times by now...

Hard to believe , but these wankers have got a grey haired mother somewhere, who thinks they are nice boys really!

Those facial expressions certainly cemented my belief in the superiority of the aryan race.

How about: "Oh, didn't you know that Hitler was a friend to the Japanese people who suppressed the Great Chinese People? I am ashamed of my country for having had such a terrible man as a leader and humbly beg forgiveness for all the suffering caused to the Chinese people". Or something like that. Hey, diplomacy isn't my bag.

This is what - well, let's be fair - NPD officials look like (but they mostly act like Neo-Nazis):

*off to disinfect my computer*

I suppose that kind of response would not be appropriate, as the guy is trying to show his appreciation of Germany by making the comment, so you must not contradict him, otherwise he loses face in a big way, and your relationship with him sours. Anyway, it doesn't seem to be relevant to most people in the PRC that Japan and Germany were on the same side in WWII...

So some guy walked up to you and called you a Nazi...big deal.
Munich, Moss Side, Malmo...there are nobheads everywhere. Why is it, just because some guy 'looked' like a Nazi, a minority of people automatically assume he is one?! Is it really fair on the Germans that as soon as they walk out of their houses sporting a daft haircut and ring through their noses that us non-Germans call them fascist pigs. Talk about pot, kettle, black.

If you walk around with Lederhosen on, you'll be taken for Bavarian.
If you walk around with a football team jersey on, you'll be taken at least for a fan, at worst for a hooligan.
If you walk around with a pillowcase over your head and a flaming cross, you'll be taken for a KKK.

If it walks like a duck and looks like a duck, it's fair enough to take it for a duck.

Mr. Wilson, nice to encounter another Edmontonian on the board, and a good writer at that. I think you'll just have to let it go as a weird episode. Sounds like something was up, but considering it was such a brief encounter, I don't think it's worth spending too much time pondering it. If it happens again, then maybe it's time to worry.

I don't know if he called me a nazi or if he was promoting nazi'ism (if that's a word). I don't understand German and I was listening to my ipod. I was dressed in a dress shirt, khaki shorts, flip flops and had a knapsack. I dunno, imo, that's pretty far away from being a Nazi. A dichotomy, be it possibly a false one, would dictate that chances are he was one based (and again, in my opinion) on his actions and the one word that I understood. Pretty solid 'why', imo.

but I find it ironic how you subtly write off his assumptions and stereotypes when you assumed that he called me a Nazi. If that's not a big deal, then by your context it shouldn't be a big deal if us non-Germans call a scruffy, pierced German a facist.

I see- I haven't read fully this thread... whether he called you a Nazi or not may be irrelevant. It seems to me some guy who was apparently dressed differently and behaved a bit out of line in public has been branded a Nazi himself and was worthy to have a post written about him. Point I was trying to convey was that there are weird people everywhere, walking around doing weird stuff in almost every big city in Europe. However, these 'kind' of people (like the ones talked about in this thread) in my home country (England) are often branded as skinheads (or fascists), whereas in Germany some people brand them as Nazis. Is this still not a bit offensive and a sensitive issue to do so in Germany? Maybe not, I don't know, but I would guess so...

To be fair, I think plenty of Germans have that reaction to them too.

Such a facetious comment is obviously intended to imply that I am ignorant of such matters. You havn't 'heard' that I've never been in such a situation, because I did not refer to my personal experiences (infact I have been in more dodgy situations than you could wave a stick at).

I find it interesting that you repeatedly used 'paranoid' in your reply. Hmn... obviously struck a nerve perhaps. I'm studying psych at the moment and I tell you what - you'd be a great participant in a qualititative research project. I could do a thematic analysis on your experience!

Yay! No more hunting for my lab rat!

While you're waving that stick, just because I didn't explain that particular situation in detail, you assumed I was paranoid? I hope your qualitative research project has more than 1 subjects But hey, I'll be a rat if there's beer involved.

And yes, I used the word "paranoid" repeatedly... if by "repeatedly", you mean 3 times. You seem to relish in the assumption that you struck a nerve. If so, umm, who cares? I'm human and I have human emotions. I'm sorry I can't be as perfect as you -how's that for facetious?

But in an attempt to stop squibbling about this, before you mentioned it, I never thought of it like that -the whole paranoid bit. I think you provoked a thought rather than struck a nerve. Never thought of it like that, imo. Who knows, mabye there was some male ego in there as well so maybe it did strike a nerve. And I agree, to an extent, you can call it paranoia but with the same flip of the coin you could also call it playing it safe given my explanation. In my experience, generally when people stare at you for long durations of time without smiling, it generally indicates some sort of intent or pre-cursor to agression.

aaaaand I'm gonna shut up before I feel like I'm trying to defending my position.


Hey, I know all about what you're talking about. I get judged all the time -I've been cursed at by more old Japanese and Korean grandfathers cause I'm Chinese. In hindsight, after reading people's posts, I think I might have possibly jumped the gun on calling the guy a Nazi. The kid had the look and feel of one, but to make an outright statement as such is, at the very least, a touch hasty.

Really wish I knew what the kid said. Maybe I'll bump into him on the way home tonight and record what he yells at me this time.

Well you'd better get use to it because staring is a national pastime here. It has been discussed many times on here.

Not in this country.

C'mon Mr. Wilson, yes, there is a possibility that this miscreant was a Nazi that has some Denny Crane like affliction where he has to announce his status at regular intervals but more likely the kid was just a little jerk. It's a lot easier and a lot more likely to just give it the benefit of the doubt, have a laugh about him and move on with your day.

And yes, staring doesn't equal antagonism in this country, it takes a while to get used to but you will.

Oh ER! I didn't know you watch Boston Legal!

Mr. Wilson, you are in for a real eye-opener if your not used to staring.