Happy Glorious 4th of July!

Yep, 231 years ago some daring free-thinkers founded what would turn out to be a nation to change the face of the world. In some ways they succeeded, in other ways the experiment went terribly wrong (s.a. Native Americans, the annihiliation of; disenfranchisement of women, Blacks and idiots*; Coca-Cola culture). It is still a great country with spectacular landscapes, breathtaking views and a certain atmosphere of cheerfulness that leaves its mark on you.

As an American, what do you think decribes your native country? I always insist that "America The Beautiful"** would have been a much better national anthem than "The Star-Spangled Banner" (and even some of "America"'s verses are hard to take).

O beautiful for spacious skies,
For amber waves of grain,
For purple mountain majesties
Above the fruited plain!
America! America!
God shed his grace on thee
And crown thy good with brotherhood
From sea to shining sea!

*Yep, all three groups got it in the end.
** It is also easier to sing.

I'm not American, but would like to wish all my Yankee friends a glorious (regardless of the weather) Independence Day...

Happy July 4th to all free thinking Americans

It means to me: A government of the people, by the people and for the people where all the people are equal under the eyes of the law. A beacon for the world to see as a shining example of real representative democracy. A nation founded on principles grounded in the rule of law and good. Lately though, it just looks a little to much like Animal Farm where some are more equal than others.

The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.

He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.
He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.
He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.
He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.
He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.
He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected; whereby the Legislative powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.
He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.
He has obstructed the Administration of Justice, by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary powers.
He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone, for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.
He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harrass our people, and eat out their substance.
He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.
He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil power.
He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:
For Quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:
For protecting them, by a mock Trial, from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:
For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:
For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:
For depriving us in many cases, of the benefits of Trial by Jury:
For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences
For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies:
For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws, and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:
For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.
He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.
He has plundered our seas, ravaged our Coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.
He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.
He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.
He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages, whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.

In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.

Ooops, wrong George!

It's probably a moderator...

In my mind I am at a picnic on the lake with my family, eating fried chicken, bisquits, bbq and drinking loads of sweet iced tea with lemon. But alas, physically I am stuck here in Paris. I don't know whether to or

But Happy 4th of July to my fellow Americans on TT!

Saint, you could make a little pilgrimage to the Statue of Liberty.

That's a great idea Showem!

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

To answer Sarabyrd's question about what the US means to us as Americans:

For me I have never felt "proud" to be an American. How can I be proud of something I did not choose? But I am thankful that by birth I had the right to be an US citizen. By birth I am naturally "American" as I have two grandparents who were full-blooded Native American Indians. One Seminole and the other Cherokee. The rest of me is Irish.

Of all of the things I am grateful for, I am most grateful for the Women's Movement and for the seperation of Church and State. Although, these liberties are in danger since President Bush has taken office. However, he will be gone soon. Hopefully.

Happy Independance Day!

I will be taking the afternoon off in your hono(u)r!

I hope that Americans who don't know this realize it, and those that do know, but have forgotten, remember it.

I'll be pursuing happiness today - so it's business as usual really.

I am currently listening to a Lee Greenwood album and trying not to puke.

Happy 4th everybody!

The weather looks slightly questionable, but I'm told it's supposed to be raining in IL where my mom is too.

The fourth of July to me is all about being with friends and family, maybe going sailing or shooting off fireworks in the backyard. Lots of food, a BBQ, and my dad hanging out the American flag on the front porch.

So I am, as I always am when an American holiday rolls around and I'm in Germany, a bit sad and homesick today. I wish Saint hadn't said anything about fried chicken and sweet tea and biscuits^*. A macaroni salad would be nice too.

Happy 4th, everyone.



^{* And if some irritating Brit comes along and starts off the 'biscuits vs cookies' debate, I swear there will be hell to pay.}

Apparently the 4th is quite similar in Minnesota as in Georgia, then. It's very strange that I'm hopesick today...I'm nearly never homesick.

Do any of you sometimes long to go back to the days of British rule?
Just wondering.

i always thought this land is your land would be the nicest anthem.

anyway happy 4th everyone! i hope some of you can enjoy a nice bbq. i'll be eating tofu for dinner, but dreaming of drinking beer and eating hot dogs and burning my feet on a nice sandy beach.

Happy 4th July. As I understand it your country has a superior political structure to our European model- Although you are under the rule of a redneck idiot right now I am optimistic that you will redress the balance the next time the elections come around.

Here's to the future of the USA!

Happy 4th of July! No taxation without representation

You may wonder, it's free country.

As much as I hate the prick, he's not a redneck...I know some rednecks that would be insulted,

my gf just called to say happy 4th...and she then had the thought that she shouldda worn her shirt that has an american flag today...dammit.

I'll wear my "Not my president" with Georgie-boy on it. I can be pro-USA and anti-bush today, right?

Indeed. Lets revolt against the German government!! Bloody tyrannical regime.

Sorry NOFX. I misunderstood the term. Can anyone correctly define it for me?

Of course you should be proud to be American. In fact if Americans were more proud they'd gather together and protest against the hijacking of the White House by this band of criminals.

Wasnt it in the Sixties during Vietnam War protests someone put a flower into the gun of a soldier at the White House?

I long for the days when beating the hell out of arrogant British people was considered a perfectly acceptable national pasttime. Ah, those were the good ol' days.

jeremy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redneck

@ gg: Those were largely German troops.


So by the time WW I and WW II rolled around the US had got pretty good at whipping Teutonic asses.

Please, let's not turn this thread into an us vs. them thing...

Happy Independence Day - 11 years ago today ye defeated the alien hordes!!!

Heh? You do realise that the entire point of the fourth of July is celebrating America's independence from Britain. So the holiday itself is pretty much an 'us vs. them thing', or at the very least, an 'us celebrating our independence from them' thing.

Happy Independence Day! Cheers to our French friends! Everyone enjoy a bbq!

America is also a place where an epic like "Alice's Restaurant" (the song, not the movie) becomes an icon of the anti-war movement. What our troops in Iraq need is an updated version such as "Alysse's Bistrot".

For my part, I awoke this morning with the following words running through my head:

Remember, remember the fifth of November
Gunpowder treason and plot
I know of no reason the gunpowder treason
should ever be forgot!

Which is really very very odd, because I'm not English, I'm American (if of distant English descent). But at least it's a fireworky holiday that my brain was thinking of.

Happy Fourth of July! *BOOM*BOOM*BOOM*

Cheers,

Fairfax71

The sub-title of the thread is "What does the USAofA mean to you as an American" I believe.

While my passport may still say I'm an American, I really don't consider myself a citizen of any country. Sure i still get a bit teary-eyed sometimes thinking of the idealistic days of my youth, but that has long since evaporated due to the chaotic downward spiral of both the American culture and the negative effects of the poor decisions of our Government. I prefer to think of myself as a citizen of the World, enjoying the flexibility of not having any allegiance to anyone or anything. On second thought i now have an incredible craving for a Hot-Dog

With a Mac running OS 9, no less!

(Which makes one wonder what the hell the alien sysadmin was thinking. Probably running unpatched Win95 or something.)

Cheers,

Fairfax71

Ah, thanks, I must be having trouble reading topic subtitles this morning.

Ahem. Let me rephrase then. To me, the USofA means arguing with people on Internet chat forums. Because America was founded by struggle and I feel obligated to continue that proud tradition, even if in a microcosm.

Now, where's that macaroni salad? A hot dog would be good too.

Or cake. Or both.

Actually, not necessarily.

The thing is, what the revolutionaries were essentially fighting for was their rights as Englishmen. Many people in Britain actually cheered them on, as they too felt that Parliament was abusing them and taking away their legitimate rights (not least William Pitt the Elder, for whom Pittsburgh is named, and the Whigs, who openly supported the revolutionaries).

Thus the Revolution wasn't necessarily so much giving Britain the finger as it was an attempt to fulfill the promise of native English rights as promised in Magna Carta, the (British) Bill of Rights and many other things besides. Unfortunately that part of the story has often been forgotten in the American side of the story-telling and it's as if we just started from scratch on July 4, 1776. We didn't by any stretch of the imagination.

Cheers,

Fairfax71

Happy Independence from America day!

Nah, only kidding We love you all really! Have a great day; you have lots to be proud of.

Oh dear. Another rainy night in Georgia.


"a couple eight bah ten color glossy photographs wi the circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one to be used in evidence against us."

Yep America needs a new Woodstock type movement.

JerseyBoy, hey Yankee! If you know what's good for you, you know that you should not fuck with Southern Women...

I'm upping the ante with some squash casserole


A long, long time ago...
I can still remember
How that music used to make me smile.

@ Fairfax: Quite right. I had that discussion with a Brit friend in Philly a few years ago. We agreed that the Brits didn't revolt against George III because the troops were right there to quash any insurrection, while people in the Colonies were fewer and far between and not so easily contained. Also, a near King is more realistic and powerful than one a few weeks' ship journey away.

Wow! Pray tell more Mr Fairfax. Magna Carta? Now that's what distinguishes Britain from many other lands, for example lere in Germany, am I right? Supposed to be quite a profound moment in English history?

Abu ghrub?

I think that's a lot of it, but also there was less of a personal issue of lack of representation and thus less personal anger, and thus less will to revolt. The people in Britain at least had constituencies, even if many of them were rotten boroughs.


If Magna Carta was the only thing separating Britain's development in that regard from the Continent, your sarcasm would be on the mark. You will note, however, that I mentioned and alluded to other things, such as the Bill of Rights or (while I'm at it) the Act of Settlement or Acts of Union or many other developments where parliamentary supremacy (and with it democratic control) developed much earlier than most other places elsewhere -- and without great bloodshed.

Yes, there are other places where it happened, such as Switzerland or Iceland or Jagiellon Poland-Lithuania. But the Jagiellons are long gone and Switzerland and Iceland are notable for being exceptions and not for exporting their developments.

Cheers,

Fairfax71

Bah!!! Southern Women ain't got nothin' on sassy New York Ladies Women.

I suppose it's my fault for mentioning the war. Never mention the war.

Now, back on topic to more interesting topics. I'm still thinking of 4th of July food. Corn dog, anyone?

Except the cuckoo clock.
EDIT: 4th of July food always means my mother's fruit punch along with a handful of roasted, salted sunflower seeds