Just what is wrong with the Hermans?

Right then,

So Friday evening I am at the weekend place in the mountains cutting the grass for the inlaws. At the end he decides to invite us to the wonderfully scenic Kloster Reutberg monastery and brewery.

Fantastic place. Right near to Kirchsee swimming lake, and the beergarden has fantastic views of the Alps. Can highly recommend it. Reutberger beer is also well known and sinks well. We were enjoying ourselves chatting and my father in law loves to tell the same old stories many times over, about when he visited the place in 1949 etc etc...when suddenly this Herman moans at him from behind to the effect that his loud voice belonged in a beerhall. Now my father in law is not a loud raucous type - quite the opposite, he has a lot of upper class dignity about him - so he was somewhat upset. Why oh why are Germans so OBSSESSED with being quiet at all costs and so unpleasant to each other in general? If we were in Britain and it had happened a quiet "Excuse me" would have been the norm.

Und?

Here's one person's take.

Hopefully you called the person on it. If you tell them THEY are being rude then they typically shut up.

I don't know but its so bad here, that when a stranger is really friendly and smiles at me and talks to me I suspect the worse..they must be some kind of pervert or have some sort of ulterior motives.
Aaand... now whenever I go back home to NJ, I am always so surprised at how friendly and polite people are... whereas before I moved to Germany, I always thought people from NJ were kind of cold and rude.

When you live in Germany and hang around a lot with Germans, you kind of get used to it with time and it doesn't bother you too much. The worst for me is always returning to Germany after a holiday. I need a few days to catch myself and actually do feel depressed to be back. Returning is like being shut in a box of gloom. As a tourist visiting other countries, you get to see how friendly and polite normal people are and how normal it is to show basic courteous bahaviour towards others. When you return here, reality bites. I am beginning to think holidays are a bad thing for my mental health, because of how negative I feel upon returning here. It's probably better to just stay here if you anyway can't leave and not even get to experience how nice people can be, because it's just depressing when you start comparing.

On the lighter side though, Jeremy's recommendation is really worth a visit. Kirchsee is one of the most beautiful places in Bavaria. That Beergarden he went to also offers good food, although in comparison to others they are a bit pricy. The view is great from the terrace.

I'm like you erdbeere. When I got home just checking out at a store, the staff are so friendly I get all smiley and just want to sit down and chat awhile. They probably think I'm drunk because of my excitement. Its great to go home once a year and get a "recharge" of politeness and kindness. I think I do so much shopping at home not just for the cheap prices but for the friendly interactions I have while doing it.

On that topic, when I was at the store on Saturday waiting to pay, a woman in front of me asked the clerk if they had something because she was unable to find it. The clerk actually laughed firstly then said she had no idea, then quoted the total price for her goods. I was so pissed I couldn't believe the lady didn't say anything back. I mean firstly that she laughed at the question as if its unusual to ask for help, and second that she gave a brush-off reply with no attempt at helping the lady. Perhaps ask a co-worker? Show some kind of customer-care. I know, I'm asking for too much but it never stops amazing me just how rude clerks are and just how uncaring they are.

yea, very rarely will someone actually move their ass and help me find something... usually if I ask where something is or any question for that matter I just get a quick half assed answer and brushed off right away so they can get back to unloading boxes or chatting with their colleagues... I worked at a retail store for 4 years while in high school and if we ever treated a customer like that we'd be out the door.

I've never heard the Germans complain but my British boyfriend reminds me constantly that I'm speak too loudly. I just get excited and don't realise.

I guess we North Americans are famous for it.

Nearby Hackensee is lovely too, and the wee Jägerwirt in Kirchbichl, up the road, has the nicest, tastiest Schweinshaxe I've ever tasted. You need to order in advance though, but they're well worth it (all natural, local produce and ingredients).

That´s a good point: I am always amazed at the lack of knowledge regarding what the store has in stock when I ask someone who works there, and their unwillingness to help me find out. This is not always the case, but it is the rule rather than the exception. At a clothing store, where the ladies were standing about chatting and didn´t want to help me find my size in a certain item of clothing, I, out of spite, left things in the changing room rather than putting them back where I got them from. They actually scolded me for that! But okay, I guess that´s what I get for shopping in cheap clothing stores...

Maybe the speaking loudly comes from the fact that we usually stand farther apart from each other?

I forgot to mention the view at the beergarden has an added attraction in the form of a gorgeous blonde with a fabulous dirndl on. Friendly and good to my kids too.


We call that Nackensee as it is the local FKK spot. Wife isnt keen on it as one of her colleagues goes there with his Wasserschlange.

Here's confirmation:
http://www.tns-infratest.com/03_presse/pre...l%FCcklich'

I hope that's just a euphemism there. Although I have seen snakes swimming in the lake.

Yesterday I was actually witness to some kids playing -- including use of their voices (Heaven forbid!) -- which I find pleasant. They weren´t up to anything, just running around a bit and calling to each other. An old guy actually called down from his balcony that, if they didn´t stop, something would happen, since he´d had to listen to them for a whole TEN MINUTES already!!! I have witnessed some kids being pretty disrespectful to some older people in trams, and I guess this explains it.

I hope you taught the kids how to make a Molotov cocktail

Returning to the question posed : Maybe they are fed up with eejits calling them 'Hermans'

well said supergill!!!

Maybe because it's such a conformist society. I've heard that it's supposedly one of the most conformist societies after Japan. So people are expected to toe the line, which means that other people aren't slow to let someone know if they think they've somehow stepped out of line.

I once saw a whole dinner-table of German women being rendered speechless in horror by someone who dared to cut a block of butter the "wrong way" (drawing the knife along the top, rather than down the side, or something...). Did you know that there was a right way to cut butter? No, I didn't either.

Of course, when you come from a society like the UK, where people are used to self-deprecation, being able to laugh at yourself, accepting other people's differences, keeping your nose out of other people's business and accepting that there isn't necessarily just one way of doing things, when you find yourself in a culture where these attitudes are abnormal, it can come as a bit of a shock.

you're right - we Brits are just the perfect nationality

seriously, that's hysterical...

maybe they are just less hypocritical than you/us. Perhaps they moan and are miserable in 'real life' rather than on a web forum

Its either the shops you all visit or the area...
Up here in the local very large (by German standards) supermarkt its often I cant find things (they move em about...) Once you can find someone they have always gone straight to the location & found it for me.

Or when my wife & I go up to Husum shoping (there is just one big clothes shop which simplifies matters a lot). There are plenty assistents there - if they see you looking they dont always jump straight in but usually keep a respectful distance - but one glance in their direction & they are there to help... And its not easy to find clothes for me (being tall & thin...).

Nope Pingpong we aren't perfect. Tell that to a bunch of Brits over here singing "There were ten German bombers in the air"

Nope we aren't like the French, make great wine, not like the Germans, make highly engineered cars, but one thing we do have is a sense of humour and great music. London is one of the global capitals for rock and pop. And how successful was Monty Python worldwide? (even if half the non Brits didnt even get the jokes!)

Monty Python was 30 years ago!!! You do know that there's been more comedy to come out of the UK since then

But back to your original topic: I really don't find anything especially wrong with the germans (comparitive to other nationalities) - I've lived here for years and have had just as many ups and downs here as I have at home - there are rude people all over the world - germany included!

Having said that, the absolute rudest people i've ever come accross were in Munich, but they were two notts forrest supporters over for the weekend!

I think it also depends a lot on who you ask. Honestly, I think I get excellent service over 90% of the time. But I never ask someone at the checkout counter--they're busy, I know that, and to do so would be just silly. But the people stocking things--even at PennyMarkt, of all places--have always taken me right to the location of whatever I'm looking for.

Maybe I'm just particularly charming (ha!), maybe my German is just broken enough to be endearing, or maybe they're amused that most of the time I'm the silly American who's always looking for Erdnusbutter, but for whatever reason I'm always rather pleased with the service I get. Even at the Hercules market when I was in Nordhausen for a few days.

Honestly, I've found the service in Germany to be as good or better than most other places I've lived (L.A., San Diego, San Jose, Portland, Philadelphia). The worst service was at the supermarket in Philly. As much as I love that town, that was always a downer.

Note: above statements do not apply to anyone at the KVR/Bürgeramt/similar what-have-yous. I think they were all recruited from that afterlife counselor's office in Beetlegeuse.

PiB: funnily enough I also find that our local Aldi staff very friendly. No I mean those lone miserable motzig (is that grumpy?) people who love to pull you back in line if you ever break "der roolz." My wife is always being barked at by someone when she is cycluing in Munich.

"Munich loves you" A big pantomime style "Oh No it Doesnt!" back.

Re : service in shops : Is it a Munich thang? Maybe, like the Pigs..., I am a particularly charming sort of fellow, or (more likely) I have just been lucky. Apart from Frankfurt a.M., the only place I have experienced poor attitudes in shops has been in Bayern and I have experienced life in Hamburg, Berlin, Niedersachsen, Heidelberg. Köln, Schwarzwald and Hessen.

Well learn some local table manners then!
This social ettiquette rule certainly applies to an extent in the UK as well.


Perhaps someone shouting out (say) she is riding the wrong way down a one way street is better than a policeman dishing out a fine for it -
or a 40 tonne truck squishing her flat onto the tarmac.

I usually get great service, sometimes the clerks are on me right away and I don't know how to explain I'm just wasting time until an appointment. I'd say my opinion of Germans only gets better the more I get to know them. On the other hand I've been disgusted by the behaviour of some of the drunk English guys I've seen in Berlin, Prague and Cologne.

Humping the outside of a building in the middle of the afternoon on a Berlin sidewalk. Yelling obscenities across the street in Cologne. Yelling anti-gay comments down the street in Cologne. On the other hand, some of the nicest people I've ever met are from England. There are jerks in every country.

Ashamed to say that so have I. I spent two weeks trawling round Germany for the World Cup last year and the only people I saw behaving in a, to me, unacceptable manner, were English. Not hooliganism, but 'low-level' anti-social behaviour - 'get your tits out for the lads', abusing people because they were wearing a different colour shirt, being offensive to café and restaurant staff, verbal harassment of young women etc., all usually fuelled by an excess of alcohol (at any time of the day) and coupled with a 'conquering army' mentality. Only a small minority, thankfully, but still enough to embarrass.

Yes, it is hysterical. I didn't say we were perfect. I was simply pointing out the general differences in attitudes that make Germany difficult for some Brits to get used to at first. We may see self-deprecation as a good thing, but the Germans regard it as baffling and pointless, and that's an attitude I can understand and sympathise with now, whereas I found it "arrogant" when I first came here.

If you live in Munich, you're likely to be experiencing Germans "lite".

there's nothing like football and alcohol to see the worst in people :-(

It's always the minority's crappy behaviour that everyone else remembers - i mean you can go about your business day in day out in Munich and one day some old biddy mutters something at you, and suddenly the "hermans" are all miserable tossers to a man!

i live near an old folks home, and i swear to god, half the hatchet-faced old biddies, once you give them a big smile, will beam back at you and often stop for a chat (it's a mixed blessing really)

@lorelei,

i've lived in germany nearly 20 years, so i hardly think that i am experiencing german-lite!

you say that the differences between the germans are that:

...the UK, where people are used to self-deprecation, being able to laugh at yourself, accepting other people's differences, keeping your nose out of other people's business and accepting that there isn't necessarily just one way of doing things, when you find yourself in a culture where these attitudes are abnormal, it can come as a bit of a shock

to say that germans think it's abnormal to accept other people's differences and can't keep their noses out of other peoples business is not only a) incredibly insulting but not even true - at least not in my experience.

I sit next to a german guy and i often show him some of the TT posts about the germans (ie from today: "What is wrong with the Hermans", "coping with Germans and their attitude" and "Irking the Germans") - he just laughs at it and thinks its funny. How do you think that would go down back home? A german website, written by people living and working in the UK, which slags off the Brits - the tabloids would have a field day!

It wouldn't be a problem as no bugger would be able to understand it!

am sure the Daily "ban this sick filth" Mail would soon start a campaign!

I mention some of the TT posts to my wife and she finds much of it funny.

btw for those who think I moan - jave you noticed how relyxed Germans are when out of this country. Funnily some of the nicest and best spoken people (who speak English as a second language) I have met when travelling in Asia have been Germans.

They're nice deep down but something here seems to make them grumpy.

already been covered

Taxation levels, Aldi, lefty fucking unions causing a pain in the arse, Lidl,lefty fucking government meddling in everything to make it harder to earn money, Aldi again...

I've just got to laugh at "Brits having a great sense of humor (or should I say humour)". That's a good one!

Conservative government, declining real incomes, bureaucracy, right wing bollocks in the press all the time, neo-liberal Anglo bollocks, whingers on message boards etc

Rightbackatcha Don!

I don't get depressed to be back, but otherwise I agree. Once you're here for a while, you get used to the rudeness. I don't actually find your average person on the street here rude, rather I find that the people being paid to be "nice", are the rude ones. Service in shops and restaurants here is appalling, but I think people are so used to it, they just don't think to change. If a sales person in Australia acted like they do often here in Germany, the customer would make a complaint. Here it's just normal, and if you tried to make a complaint, the manager would be equally rude to you.

Two shops today and I got polite hellos, please and thank yous and good byes from the shop staff.
What do you want? Them to rim you over the counter?

At lunch today with a German colleague, we came up with an alternate theory:

Anglo-Americans tend to "save up" their vitriolic behavior for situations where they want to show their fangs (political disputes, negotiations, etc).

Germans are complete marshmallows when the pressure's really on (which is why no one in politics has any spine) ... hence meting it out in the everyday. That's why they drive like maniacs ... it's genuinely the only taste of relative freedom most ever get.

Put simply, Anglo-Americans are peaches and Germans are coconuts; all squishy on the outside with a hard pit you can break your teeth on if you don't watch it vs. all hard and hary until you hit it with a hammer and you find out that the inside's all squishy.

Nah, that's just life. everyone is less grumpy when on holiday... but when you've perhaps just had a crap day at work, missed your train etc. we can all have grumpy days.

Shops don't bother me that much, but restaurants are a different story. It's obvious what the problem is, Germans don't tip well, so the staff don't bother their arse, cause they get paid shit and have no motivation to do any better. I ate out a lot over the last couple of months, with people from home (UK) and found myself apologising to them all the time for the bad service, not necessarily unfriendly, but always terribly slow, with many orders just overlooked or forgotten.

WIth this weather its not suprising we are all grumpy. Grump. Grump...

The last 3 pubs / restaurants I have had shitty service in in Munich?
All three run by native English speakers.

I find some of the topics here quite funny as well...

That's true and I've heard it before somewhere. It might be that life is ahit and they have a very direct way of saying that. Unlike say Amis or Brits with most Germans there is no hidden agenda. If a German says they'll be there they are there not like us who say yeah see you at the bar then never bloody turn up.

Right that'S it. Kids are sick I am sick. Rain. Time for the tennis sklirts thread again!

It does exist - www.deutsche-in-london.net/forum