DSL internet without ISDN, is it possible?

Hi

anyone know if its possible to get DSL without ISDN?

cheers
d

Yes it is, I've got it

You do, however, need at least a standard phone connection.

I think it's called T-Net w/DSL.

Or maybe when you're living in a dense populated area, there might be someone with a wireless connection without security on it

Yeah I also have DSL through a normal telephone connection. Works well.

Yes ?

DSL is for the internet. ISDN or Analog is for your phone calls. It is up to you what connection you´d prefer for calling.

But the point is you MUST have a phone line of some description to have DSL. DSL without a phone line is not possible (from Deutsche Telekom, at least)

YL6

Does that mean, that if you don’t have a phone line you cant have DSL ?

When he said "you MUST have a phone line of some description to have DSL" he probably didn't really mean it. He probably meant that you can get DSL without a phoneline so long as you ask really nicely.

My English isn't what it used to be, but that's how I read it.

I thought so once...

YL6

The way I heard it is, it's the Last Mile concept.
Telekom owns all those lines in Germany which go directly to the apartment.
All the other companies have to buy permission to run their services through
those lines from those networks.

I'm sure this has some relevance to the original question... maybe it's just too late in the day. All those lines going into one apartment must form a pretty big cable

YL6

I did not say I *like* Telekom. I just said they own the grid of lines which leads to the apartments.

YorkshireLad6, your message suggests you know a way to do it. I just moved here for a year and was about to sign up for T-Net service and then freenet.de dsl service... but if you have a way I can avoid the hassle of dealing with T-Net, i (and probably many others) would be forever in your debt if you shared...

cheers.

Sorry Retrograde, read the thread. Let me repeat, quietly...

YOU NEED A PHONE LINE TO GET DSL!

In summary:
- You need T-Net (or ISDN)
- You need T-DSLx000 (where x is 1, 2 or 3)
- You need an ISP (Freenet is just fine, but others may be better (cheaper))

There's no other (easy) way to do it...

YL6

If what you want is a broadband internet connection, you can achieve that somehow
with a satellite dish. I've seen Astra advertise this on CNN. But I don't know any
details, so please don't ask ...

Thanks for the info. I guess I'm stuck with a T-Net connection from Telekom. Any recommendations on where to get the DSL service from? I'm looking for 2Mbit, unlimited usage (flat tarif).

Freenet caught my eye because they have no installation fee (even for the T-DSL anschluss) and it's around 50 euros a month for unlimited everything on a 3MBit line.

Tiscali was another option but the guys upstairs complained of it going down every 3 days for 3 days at a time (i.e. roughly 50% uptime...)

I've been browsing www.onlinekosten.de, but many of the cheaper ones don't offer much in the way speed and unlimited usage.

Ok, last question: is 2 or 3MBit worth it? I've heard from lots of people that they never really max out a 1MBit connection. I know it depends on network traffic, etc, but I plan on using BitTorrent and DC++ so can imagine I can find some fast hosts to download from. Any thoughts on the higher speed connections?

(Love the site btw. It's a godsend.)

-retro

I use Tiscali...

No problem
Ever

G

Pm me for a link...

There's a number of providers and a variety of offers. I'd say, however, for a flat rate service, what's important is what you pay per month at the end of the day. Tiscali is the cheapest - €15.90 a month for the 1Mbit flatrate service. They'll throw in a wireless router and modem for free if you sort your T-DSL connection through them at the same time. Note that the better offers assume you have no DSL to start with and are arranging it through them (in which case they then arrange it through Telekom). Telekom pay a kickback for every new connection order passed to them. This kickback goes part way to paying for the equipment or offer...

I don't know any provider that has persistant problems with their connections. Some (Tiscali NOT include) get a little overloaded in the evening and slow down. T-Online is blindingly fast to sites in Germany, but slows down on transatlantic transfers. Tiscali is generally good across Europe, but less so on the international circuits. You can see where they all buy or concentrate their bandwidth... Most people that complain about provider problems usually are actually suffering hard or software problems interuppting the line, or high s/n on the phone line causing increased error checking or drop-out (which is a Telekom problem in any case)

Not sure the 2 or more Mbit connections make much sense for general single person domestic connections. The price goes up dramatically too - Even Tiscali raise the price to €37.90 and don't forget you also pay an additional €3 a month for T-DSL2000 from Telekom too. The only practical use of a higher speed connection might be filesharing, but then you're bottlenecked by other peoples download speeds in any case. Remember most people have asymetric connections, so data leaving them is slow anyway...

YL6

So seriously, can I get DSL without having a phone line?

> Telekom owns all those lines in Germany which go directly to the apartment.

Not all. only about 95% or so.

> All the other companies have to buy permission to run their services through
> those lines from those networks.

They don't have to. They can bury all the cable they want.

No!

Of course, if you asked a different question - such as "Can I get Internet at home without a phone line?" the answer might be "yes"

YL6

I can see where this is heading...

Thanks YL6, so you're saying that in order to have DSL at home I have to have a phone line first, is that right?

DSL, yes. Internet not necessarilly.

YL6

Unless you are prepared to spend lots of money on VSAT DSL... (Sky DSL?? )

(Very Small Apperature Transmitted.) Thats BOTH up and down via satellite..

G

If VSAT is coming through the radio waves from a satellite its not DSL (or rather DSL as a marketing name and a decietful one at that). DSL refers specifically to a technology for modulating higher frequency signals over a standard telephone line. Digital Subscriber Line. Perhaps the Satellite version stands for Decietful Selling Label

I like it.!!!

I'll Get me coat...

I suppose that using Standard Sky DSL, you are using the phone line to upload and make the page request...

But that data returns via the satellite connection..

Could this be call DSL too?

So the fact that I've had the phone line for over a year and just used it to make normal calls won't mitigate against me getting DSL?

Argh!!! Don't go with tiscali!!! Two and half months after placing my order, I'm still without internet at home I know loads of ppl recomend them and their prices are good, but I've had sooooo many problems!

You can get a Tiscali account setup inside of 6 hours.

Your problem is with Telekom and that you've requested Tiscali to take care organising DSL through them for you. You could have called Telekom directly and (probably) have had a DSL within 10 days or less and then added Tiscali the same day it was connected. This presumes of course that there are not any problems with adding DSL to yoour ine (availability, capacity, etc.,)

YL6

My problems are with both Tiscali and Telcom! The main prob with Tiscali is that am trying to set up DSL but the telephone bill isnt in my name as I'm in a WG, so faxed and emailed them a copy of the bill which was signed by my flatmate who pays the bill, saying it was ok for me to have DSL. Tiscali managed to loose the faxes and emails (?!?) 6 times! Then they also managed to duplicate my application which Telcom rejected as I'd apparently ordered it twice!!! Spoke to Tiscali on the phone this morning and Telcom are enabling my connection as of tomorrow but the splitter (from Telecom) and modem (from Tiscali) haven't been sent to me...any advice?

Telekom and Tiscali are a total disconnect. Telekom don't want to work with Tiscali (they'd rather you bought T-online via them) and anyone with the slightest variant on the norm creates havoc.

If DSL is being enabled tomorrow, but you don't have the hardware you can only beg, buy, or borrow it in the meanwhile

Stupid though it may seem (although typical for Telekom), there's a national shortage of DSL splitters at the moment. Telekom are quoting 10 days for a DSL connection and 21 days to get a splitter to the customer...

YL6

If you wont want to be using your phone and DSL at the same time, the splitter is not strictly necessary.

How much does one need to beg, to get a modem and splitter and a bit of help to get connected, tomorrow?

Hi you guys.. and girls..

I live in Germany since the start of December last year.
And.. I wanna ask a question.. hope someone can help me understand..

Last friday I got a few calls from 0800 - 330 2424.. I tried the internet finding out who's calling..
Well.. I found your topics and read about T-net..
now.. here's my question..

W h a t 's T - N e t ? ?

I looked up some info but still don't really get the point of it.
Can anybody explain me what it does and why I should, or should not do anything with it?

Y'r answers're really welcome.. Thanks a lot!

By the way.. I'm Dutch.. if I can be of any assistance to any of you please let me know..
(can you see my em@il adres?)

Much Love,
Saskowa

. ...

Eh, Um, ...what does the fact that you're Dutch have to do with the cost of beer in Germany?

I would be careful admitting you're Dutch in an open forum .

Just kidding, my husband is Dutch.

It's Telekom's voice mail service. You may want to have a look at this thread:
How to set up a T-Net box

It is written in red, but I'm not sure if it is true...

They are not everywhere but worth to have a look:
http://www.kabeldeutschland.de/highspeed-i...uebersicht.html

And as I understand: "telephone optional"...

In 2004 it was true, you couldn't get DSL without a phone line. These days you can.

Cable internet is different, of course.

Yes, it is an old discussion...

But the topic is still interesting. And the bad thing is: superkabel.de is not all over Germany. If you have a flat rate DSL you can opt for a VoIP phone with low / free (even international) rates. But normally you will have to subscribe to a phone line causing monthly line rental costs.
Maybe the forum readers can name some providers (also from other countries) where "DSL only" (without blocked ports) is possible. Personally I would be interested in a setup that can be used in UK or Ireland.

A list of German ISP's offering 'naked' DSL without a real phone line can be found here:
http://www.telespiegel.de/dsl/dsl-entbuendelt-flatrate.html (flatrates)
http://www.telespiegel.de/dsl/dsl-entbuend...tarif-volu.html (time-/volume-based)

As for cable internet, there's Kabel Deutschland, Kabel BW and Unitymedia

Not true on the naked DSL, you do actually need a Telekom phone line for Alice, don't know about the others but I'm guessing it just means you don't have to use their tariffs.

Thanks for the Kabel Deutschland, I think that's the one I'll look into, very cheap and fast, with Sonderkündigungsrecht we should be fine to cancel early if need be, right?

YES YOU CAN. I have. Unitymedia (formerly Ish in NRW) works with your TV plug (cable).

One thing to clarify which could stop a lot of confusion:

"DSL" is specifically a technology for providing (high speed) internet over telephone lines. So you need a phone line, or it is not DSL, by definition.

Of course there are other ways to get internet without using a phone line - satellite or cable (as in cable TV) are other ways. Internet on your mobile phone (e.g. 3G) is another way. These are not called DSL but the internet connection you get might be just as fast, or even faster than DSL.

Then the other thing is that even is you use DSL (i.e. internet over the phone line), I guess there are options as to whether you pay for a voice phone service in addition to the internet service or not.

Didn't know Unitymedia even offered DSL, is that a new service along with there other internet options?

I have Alice DSL. I pay only for the DSL, having a phone service is optional. Deutsche Telecom technician had to come to the apartment and check the phone line connection and then activate it for DSL. I have a phone number on my bill but unless I pay for it I can't have a phone service. Hope this helps if I am not already repeating several other people.

As Mailbags explained very well...Unitymedia is a cable company so offer Cable Internet access not DSL Internet.