Hi all,

the following posts were extracted from a review of Munich's KultFabrik. As the postings (principally by myself) moved away from the original theme, I have started a new forum thread (at the sensible prompting of Element2802). Hopefully the moderators have now removed the last few items from the review thread. My latest comments are at the end.

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I think Munich Night life sucks atleast for coloured people like me. And thats not my opinion only, I was in Barcelona this weekend and met a couple of "multi-colored" people there and all share the same feelings like me. I have been to Kult Fabrik couple of times and the only place I managed to get in seamlessly was Club 4. I tried Milch-Bar everytime but was not allowed except once when I was with this special VIP pass that a colleague gave me at work. So overall my opinion of Clubbin in Munich is very sad.

Posted by: saurabhdaga at 2:42 pm on 5.Jun.2007

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Hey Saurabhdaga I can appreciate your feelings. I am Black and British, and I have had similar experiences here in Munich. The ironic thing is that some of these 'all-white' places play black music (R&B, HIP HOP). Sometimes I wonder if there is much difference between this current predicament and being a Jew in munich between 1938 - 1944. But most folks just look away like they did back then. Same problem...different times!

Posted by: Rocketbuster at 3:09 pm on 18.Jun.2007

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My my... what sensitive creatures some of our TT bretheren are...! I have been here in München almost a year now and offer this sage titbit for the chewing of... ;)) If you let it bother you then it will. Oh, and for the record... I am British (proudly so) and non-white (Indian). And should anyone want to trade/compare racism scars am more than happy to oblige...! In my time here, I have noticed that some Bavarians are less than comfortable to see me or interact with me. SO WHAT!!?!! Is it really going to make a difference to my life? Am I going to cry into my pillow or start a course of anti-depression therapy? Have I been so hard done by? No... no... erm... no and NO! A more delicious reaction (in my albeit limited experience) is to add to their discomfort by smiling your sunniest, or simply getting them to talk. I am as self-possessed and worthy as any other human being and we just happen to be sharing the same piece of universal real estate. I don't expect everyone to like me or treat me with equanimity - overall, a healthy approach and one that I find works. Lest we stoop under the onerous burden of our oh-so-comfortable shoulder-chip or forget to remove our rose-tinted specs... Here's the news: it's a wicked world out there! Hold the front page!! Prejudice exists everywhere. India, Africa, U.S. or Europe. Tell me, how ecstatic would the family of a young (eligible) Indian bachelor be if he should decide to marry a beautiful Nigerian woman, or German for that matter? So, before we start applying different standards for what we find acceptable (how we are treated and how we treat others, let's ensure: 1. our own house is in order 2. we are realistic about the impact of the behaviour. I take great exception to the last comment by the victimised and obviously terribly mistreated Rocketbuster. Are you really comparing the experiences of Jews in war-time Munich with your oh-so-harrowing experiences with natives of our host city? UNBELIEVABLE! How crass is that!! What terrible misfortune and suffering it must be for you to be turned away from a night club or ten by unfriendly (and yes probably ignorant) bouncers...! Or for natives to prefer to stand on the U-Bahn rather than take the empty seat next to you... because, horror of horrors - you are not white!! Here's hoping other TTs are a little more circumspect with their utterances and take a less 'them-and-us' view of our hosts while here. I am convinced this will make our temporary stay here something positive to remember. Wunsch euch einen scönen Wochenende Have a good one everyone...

Posted by: Superschnucks at 3:29 pm on 22.Jun.2007

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@Superschnucks: I bet you don't feel exactly the way you write. In fact I know you don't because of your expansive commentary on what was about one line of text only describing "GETTING INTO CLUBS" with as you rightly said "stupid bouncers" Who are you trying to convince? Anyways Kultfabrik is a great place to party and sometimes you have to deal with bouncers who think their club is heaven on earth. Just butter up their self importance if you are a guy and bat your eyes if you are a girl(same thing really). The great thing of course is that theres always another club to go to, don't get stuck on one!

Posted by: Element2082 at 11:15 am on 23.Jun.2007

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Hmmmmm... Element(ary) perhaps... pray tell, who am I trying to convince and of what exactly? Seems you know me better than I do ;)) I erm... 'feel' TOTALLY as I wrote in my previous posting Element, so save your money, the odds are too long. The point I was trying to make (perhaps a touch obscurely), was that it is easy or perhaps convenient to roll out the 'race/racism/prejudice' card every time we aren't treated as would back in our home towns/cities. And that my dear Element is what vexes me so. To my mind this is a cop out and over something as meaningless as entry to a nightclub...!!? Seems a bit shallow to me, not to mention trivialising real and more serious cases of racial discrimination. Bouncers the world over adopt the same approach, the "I don't like the look of you (no matter what the reason) and so buster you ain't getting in! Deal with it!'". To make it an issue of race sounds like airhead bleating to me. Anyone would think that racism is a facet of Munich life (OK, OK just the nightclubs then), which it isn't, and would never occur in our home cities/towns. Cue the opening bars of 'My Green and Pleasant Land'. And as we all know that is simply fantasy, whether Britain, U.S. or anywhere else. If the Munich experience is so traumatising for our more sensitive TTers, then perhaps they should take a trip to the Flughafen and seriously consider a one-way ticket...

Posted by: Superschnucks at 2:26 pm on 25.Jun.2007

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Again: You're trying too hard, being too coy and writing essays on how well you handle yourself. I'm glad you have it all figured out but please stop advertising it. You're bringing in worldwide race issues
when we're only talking about a club so please save it for a chat forum. Mods: can we get the last couple of messages deleted. They have nothing to do with reviewing the club. Include my comments too.

Posted by: Element2082 at 9:30 pm on 28.Jun.2007

OK, Element – relocated to a more suitable soapbox… happier now…? ;))

However, I agree that this topic is irrelevant for ‘reviews’. That said, to offer up (by original posters) racism/prejudice as an issue in a review is bound to provoke a response - intentional or not. Perhaps I am expecting too much for people to think before they write and submit.

Maybe you missed my point Element, ‘worldwide race issues’ indeed! Illustration for heavens sake! The point was to take themselves far less seriously and remind them of their possible hypocrisy (an item singularly missed when (British non-white) people complain about racism).

If advertising was my intention, to what end? I assumed that TT was a place where English-speaking people exchange views/tips etc. If that is the way my views came across, then I mis-wrote somewhere. I am no more grounded than your average Joe - simply irritated to pen a few lines.

AGAIN: I believe it’s a cheap shot to play the race card for something as meaningless/simple as entry to a club. Particularly, to associate it with Munich where we are guests and our own home towns are probably similarly afflicted (bouncers or others). And the comparison to war-time Jews was especially unsavoury.

And what is your issue with my writing about something which is irritating (oops sorry, advertising)? Why does it touch a nerve with you?

Perhaps you assume that what I wrote is not plausible or I am being smug (hence your descriptions: ‘trying too hard’, ‘coy’, ‘expansive commentary’ ‘who are you trying to convince’ etc etc). As though I am just writing rhetoric for the pleasure of hearing my own voice/reading my own words...! If you knew me at all Element (and it seems you believe you do…), you would know that vanity is understandably absent from my make-up (related to being less than attractive, widening girth etc etc).

What is it that vexes you so with my writing, I write as I see and bring my life experience to bear. What I write is based on experiences I have had - not theory.

So Element, perhaps before making character assumptions, you should take the necessary time to read and re-read. Or know the author first.

Just a thought.