Viability of opening an English shop in Munich

I am looking at the possibility of opening an Ex-pat shop on the East side of Munich. What would you like to see stocked (non perishables)? How far would you travel? Let me know please.

What exactly do you mean by East side of Munich? If you're talking outside the "U-Bahn Bereich" forget it... you'll probably only get custom from people who happen to live in your area. What do you mean by expat... what variety of expat are you intending catering for Americans, Brits, Aussies?

Realistically, I see little need for a non-perishables expat shop. Most things can be found in one way or another (see: British and American foods) and if not London is just a short flight away. If you were to offer decent British bacon, on the other hand, you'd have a flood of expats coming to visit you whereever you were!

But think of the possibilities Koala! Self raising flour... cadburys... proper crisps (salt and vinegar)... ginger biscuits... mmm, digestive biscuits... all on your doorstep (I agree about the U-Bahn)...

Although I agree that perishables would be good too... bacon, a sliced white loaf... oh yeah, and add tetleys to my list of non-perishables... my saturday mornings would be complete!!

OK Kathie, I admit ginger biscuits and salt and vinegar crisps would go down quite nicely! But Grinner suggest you take a look at Pomeroy and Winterbottom before oyu go doing anything else. If you can't offer lower prices - or a much better range - you'll be in trouble because they have a very central location although their opening times aren't all that hot.

I could arrange delivery!!

The shop would not be near a U-Bahn but Most folk have a car. Fresh bread would be delivered on Fridays. Crunchies, Flour, Alpen, Marmite, McVitties biscuits, Walkers Crisps, Cordial drinks.

I will also be stocking for Amaricans, Aussies etc, but need to know what they want.

Bacon would be tough as the Health authorities would stick their noses in. I will be just a touch more pricey than the Cornershops in the UK, but I am sure we can cope with that.

The problem with Munich, dear Grinner, is that many people (myself included) do not have a car, because we can get everywhere we need to go on the U-Bahn and it's preferable to spending hours in traffic jams and looking for parking spaces.
But I like the idea certainly! As I said, teabags would be good...

Good luck on your endeavor Grinner but I think you might have a time keeping prices reasonable, especially for American products due to shipping costs. If you can get me a decent sized bottle of Best Foods mayo for under 2 € I'll travel as far as I have to though.

Would kill to have a reliable supply of Good Season's Italian Dressing and Hidden Valley Ranch Party Dip too while you are at it.

Grinner,

Most people I know in Munich do not have a car! Delivery would be great if it was a real service - time of delivery specified to within an hour - not German-style - 'morning or afternoon'. Import of bacon isn't actually restricted - you can easily have it sent vacuum packed from the UK .. but I just don''t fancy having it lurking in a post office for three weeks before they deign to deliver it! You'd have to have proper opening hours. To be honest you needn't even open your shop during the day. As of six for a couple of hours and on Saturday. Most of us work office hours anyway.

The place that I am looking at has plenty of parking space, delivery will also be available.

At the moment, the company that i will be investing with has regular deliveries from the states, Australia and the whole of Asia... Including Oldham

The problem with having an outlet in the City is a Cost issue, rent is high, so prices are reflected.

Delivery could be made to offices or place of work, this gives an eight hour window for delivery.

Yes it's a cost issue. I'm fully aware of that, but like I said, I only know a couple of expats with cars.
If you are within ten minutes walk of an S-Bahn station then you might get away with it. Delivery is all very well but if people are walking round a shop they are likely to spend more than if they were to order via fax or email.
Its all swings and roundabouts.

What about a decent Fish and Chip shop?

Grinner, are you opening the Munich franchise for this: expatshopping.com ? Granny was thinking of doing that.

There's another thread on the subject somewhere else in this forum. Try searching for "expatshopping".

Grinner,
Come on spit it out, what is your definition of East of Munich? Give us a place name then we can tell you whether we'd be prepared to make that journey.
Koala

Do you think you'll be able to beat the prices on www.expatshopping.com ?

They seem pretty good, especially compared to other expat places in town.

what i really miss is good English cheese at a price that doesnt require organ donation.

Crunchies. You complete and utter b*st*rd. Now I've been reminded, I have the need to go home and eat one of the two I have left.

S&V crisps can be had already though, folks. Your local Tengleman (WOCAB) may well have them (some inferior German variety I'm afraid). The Subway "sandwich" place even has Walkers crisps (def. plain and S&V, and a bunch of others as well I think), so launch a raid on them. Museum Lichtspiele also sell Walkers, as does the English Video Club I think (long time since I went). Heck, the EVC even sold Cadbury's Flakes last time I went

lots of places here may sell walkers crisps but only the basic crisps in basic flavors.

do no-one miss quavers and french fries, monster munch, skips, and all the different flavors walkers do like Marmite flavor,?!

Shop will be near Segmüller! But, its in the opposite direction, Its Partway between the Messe and Erding

I will have pretty much all flavours makes and models of crisps. Kipling cakes... Curry mixes... Spaghetti hoops (for us younger ones). Pickled Onions!!! Creamcrackers and a lovely bit of cathederal city... Hmmm

ooooh cathedral city!!! Im there!

To be perfectly frank Grinner, I think you are looking at a losing prospect. I don't know how long you've been in Munich, but I've been here long enough to name at least 3 ex-pat shops that have gone out of business. Most were far more central which may have been their problem, high rent=high prices; but none the less, at a time where it they were one of the few places to find news about other ex-pats, pre-Internet rage, the places were nearly deserted whenever I went.

I think you should do a lot of enquires and analysis before you suddenly decide to set up shop. If you do, good luck!

baking goods for americans (brownies, brownie pan, pumpkin pie mix, pie pan), all the trimmings for thanksgiving (cream of mushroom soup, onion topping for green bean casserole), mac and cheese, MEXICAN FOOD PRODUCTS (look on other threads for a decent list). Curry is to Brits as Mexican food is to Americans.

Soft drinks (Dr.pepper, mountain dew)

Ranch and Italian dressing, barbecue sauce

Corn starch, flour, baking soda

chocolate chips for cookies

I agree with Koala though, I'm would visit a store but maybe not order online, unless a website has pictures of all products (to visually tempt me). You'd have to do some pretty intense advertising.

Marmite flavour? Marmite is the stuff of the devil!

Anyway, Walkers haven't been the same since they went national. You can't get proper pork scratchings outside the Black Country either, just "ladies bicycle" versions.

Near Segmüller? That's way out of town. What's the nearest S-Bahn, if there is one?

S 6 Direction Erding

A bus every 40 mins, it stops outside the shop. Just need to get the timing right.

I am well aware of the Pitfalls of this shop idea. I have run my own company for 16yrs now. I have the finaces and the determination and a means of accessing Thousands of Ex-pats in Munich alone...

I placed this posting to see whats wanted, needed and how welcome it would be. In this thread alone, I have the potential to make a few people here in Munich just a little bit happier, surely thats worth more than large profits that some people seem to think I am after.

Just a thought for you ladies...

How about personal hygiene products?

I dont use them nor know much about their construction apart from what is seen on tv...

And that reminds me, I will be stocking Genuine Marigolds

Hmm, I can get almost everything I need here in munich. You can now buy kettle chips here - all varieties. (Thin) streaky bacon is available everywhere too - just the back bacon is no where to be found... shame. Baked beans are also here.

I even found cheddar cheese here: in Edeka!

What I really miss are Tesco/other supermarket products like fresh curries, fresh chinese stuff, generally fresh set meals, but the list is endless. Unfortunately they can't be imported. I also used to love a nice Chicken Kiev

The edeka at the airport (06:30 - 22:00 EVERY day) has tons of weird shit from all over the place, at reasonable prices. Those with cars who spend over 10,- get 1hr parking free.

However, having said all the above, I would still go to Grinner's store... at least to check it out.

NoGo - we found back bacon, sold as a Danish speciality of all things, in Karstadt or Kaufhof or somewhere like that. In the food hall, not with the socks. Its very thinly sliced, but I still find it better than the streaky stuff. Cheddar is ubiquitous, it seems - were you after a particular type or something?

Grinner - ladies personal hygiene products... Marigolds... you have a weird mind. I'll definitely be visiting

ok, i know you're talking shop and not restaurant, but some nights i come home from work and all i want to do is go to a grocery store and help myself to the salad bar. the huge american grocery store kind of salad bar. The Spar by me has a very, very tiny one. But it's not very exciting. I need more variety.

Also...some nights I could seriously injure someone for a Lean Cuisine. (Or an Uncle Ben's Rice Bowl.) I know. I know. Pathetic. But as a good working girl, the thought of actually cooking some nights really brings me down. Some sort of frozen microwave meals that are familiar.

Ah...and regular, generic "Vegetable Oil" for use with Brownie Mix. Hard to find regular vegetable oil. Must use Corn Oil or something similar instead.

California wine. Lots of Mexican products. (Covered already.) Candy like Twizzlers. Dr. Pepper. Bagels. Newman's Own Salad Dressings. (I've seen his microwave popcorn in Kaefer. Haven't looked for the salad dressing.) Velveeta. Bisquick. Pancake Mix. Maple Syrup.

OK...must start working...

If were talking about ladies personal hygine then I have to say... and I know some of you will give me stick for this but... proper tampax tampons!!!

I know I know we have OB here but they are just not the same or as good as tampax. And I know of 5 girls off the top of my head who would agree with me there and who would definately make the trip to see grinner even if only for tampax.

Grinner, I will definately be paying a visit if you do this. And heres a few things Id love to see you have

cathedral city, different crisps eg quavers, angel delight, treacle sponge puddings, HP brown sauce !!! (used to be able to rely on Kaufhof for it but not anymore), curry sauces, cajun spices, lucazade, normal decent tasting cordial, tampax, good biscuits biscuits and more biscuits (digestives, hob nobs, custard creams, penguins, etc etc) ...and of course, real decent bacon (back) and real normal sausages!!! (Sorry, desipte living in the sausage capital I have not found 1 I like!!)

Oh, and of course, chocolate bars!!!

And for the aussies you have got to have vegimite and tam tam biscuits to start with!

Grinner - I've travelled to Segmüller once, using public transport, since it opened! That was an effort. I think you'd be too off the beaten track for most people - for me definately - although I might be tempted to get stuff delivered - but if I'm having stuff delivered I will order the stuff that I know I want and I won't pick things up as I see them.

Bear in mind that the vast majority of expats are working and don't get out of the office until five. I work East of Munich but to get to Erding would be a nightmare. It takes half an hour to get to the Ostbahnhof, potential wait of twenty minutes for the S-Bahn. .. how far is it to Erding fifteen minutes? Potential wait of forty minutes for a bus? And then how long does the bus journey take? Ten minutes?

Add that all up: best case scenario an hour - worst case scenario two hours. And then the same fiasco on the way back... assuming that the buses still run at that time of day? and I'm not left stranded. But if you were to organise a driver to meet every S-Bahn and ferry customers from station to shop door we could be on to a different kettle of fish altogether.

Bex,

Cathedral city and Kerrygold cheddar have been spotted in Edeka(!) on a number of occassion, as has HP brown sauce.

But totally agree with you on the bacon and sauaages.

sorry, add to that dairylea! Nothing here, even laughing cow can compare.

Koala, where is this edeka place?

I have to say I have got totally fed up of having to go from shop to shop each week to get everything I want so have given up, if I cant get it in my local tenglemann then I just go without. But if G opens this place I would definately make a trip out there once a month to get all the other "expat" stuff I want.

Bex,

Edeka is a chain of stores, they have blue and yellow signs and tend to be relatively small and in more residential areas. I used to live across the road from one! (Herzog-Ernst-Platz in Sendling)

But the supermarket at Karlsplatz/Stachus as you head towards Bondi.. what's that? I think that might be an Edeka.. even if it isn't, it always had a good range of more exotic items!

expat shop in the east = you shop for a few curiosa when you are really so desperate you are willing to spend two quid on a pack of salt 'n' vinegar walkers?

don't want to "rain on your parade" as the americans would say, but with my professional (VC) hat on, I would have to say that I wouldn't finance it. since life is a bit slow around here over the summer (in case you were wondering why I have the time for these long posts...), lemme tell you why I feel that way (standard hoops one makes people jump thru when they come and ask for money) of course this is just one man's opinion so discard it if you feel it is rubbish...

top down analysis of the market

population of munich (as per an earlier post on this forum): 1,315,254
of which foreign: 269,653
of which target market (british isles + north america + antipodeans): 37,075

assume 1 visit per year per target consumer. may not seem like a lot, but is rather optimistic considering

a/ it is a "specialist" outlet, i.e. I cannot do all of my shopping there (specialised/restricted offering, high prices as you yourself say)
b/ I have to deliberately go there either by car or by U/S bahn, so no opportunity to sell to random passers-by dropping in for a browse
c/ I need to know the place even exists, and assuming you don't have a few zillion € to spend on advertising that is a stretch if you are not in a prime location (which you are not since you tell us that would be too expensive)
d/ I need to assume that of the 37,000 consumers the number of households is less than that number considering it contains families and married/cohabiting people who shop together

also, assume average spend of €5 per visit (dunno, just a random guess)

= annual turnover of € 185,000

deduct:
* cost of goods sold
* rent and rates
* utilities
* inventory carrying cost (credit is not cheap for the Mittelstand, even today!)
* tax (wohoho! this is deutschland after all!)
* staff wages (if applicable)
* a (munich) living wage for the owner

remains: not a lot

We'll have to arrange a Toytown day trip to Grinner's shop! No, but seriously, we could stop off at the Erdinger brewery as well and make an afternoon of it... Nobody would have to say in advance if they were coming (see curry thread) and it would make the long S-Bahn trip and bus journey slightly more interesting!

• IBC root beer
• Cheap, real tortilla chips (as opposed to doritos)
• Canned soda by the case
• Ben & Jerry's
• Bohemia/Dos Equis + a variety of Ales (Sierra, Red, etc.)
• rice bowls
• Budget Gourmet frozen dishes
• Pepperidge Farm cookies
• King's Hawaiian bread
• bean chips

No cans till at least the beginning of October, otherwise you have to pay Pfand on them and return them to Erding, which would be a joke ... I'm assuming that even imported cans are subject to this law... unless anyone knows better?

there is a BIG Edeka at the OEZ. Probably easier to get to than the east of Munich

Just another quick question. As most expats that would have enough money to pay for the goods will be working 9-5 what will be the opening hours ? Will you be open Saturdays ?

i'd vote for 8 to 8 on Saturdays. And a delivery service. I don't know about the rest of you, but my work day is more like 8:30 to 6:30.

Cathedral City - available at Karstadt Foodmarket at Munchener Freiheit.

Jawol.

And I'd add for Grinner, that I would not travel from the center to somewhere between Messe and Erding to buy English produce. This type of thing works very well in Brussels where there is a sizeable expat population with high disposable income and many of whom live outside the city in the surrounding towns and who all have cars, and kids who want this type of thing, but Munich strikes me as a totally different kettle of fish. A no go in my eyes.

I am not sure if I would go out that far from town for a few bags of crisps, or even good rootbeer. I think almost everything can be found in Munich already if you are prepared to look about a bit. An earlier post on this thread by Stubbles mentioned cornstarch, flour and Dr Pepper, two of which I can even get from my local Petrol station. (By the way Stubbles, or anyone else that can answer, what is "onion topping for green bean casserole?)
IF delivery is a possibility, then I would presume that there would need to be a web site so I could peruse the goods on offer, and order them online? If this is the case, then why bother with a premises?

There are very few things that I might want from the UK that I can't get in Munich.

Cathedral cheddar can be bought from Hertie as can maple syrup. The australian shop has Marmite and golden syrup and aussie cadburys. There are indian shops which supply curry sauces, cadburys and hob nobs. Kaufhof has Pepperidge farm cookies and bacon (though only streaky). There the african shop at Hakkerbruke has baked beans and porridge oats. Subway has walkers crisps.

The only thing that I have found I have to import is black treacle.

I suppose that self raising flour would be nice.

OK it would be nice to have all those things in one place but being carless I am not sure that I would travel that far or buy much if I did because it would be a pain to get the stuff home again. If you wanted me as your customer then you would need to have a good delivery service.

Roz.

Well if I can go to just 1 place, be it out of town and a bit of a trip, I would sooner that than trapesing around munich in and out of different shops to find the things I want. It would certainally be much easier and quicker.

Its like what I miss about the UK, big supermarket stores like asda, where you can get all you want, food, freshly made pizza indian chinese bread roast chicken, personal hygine stuff - make up etc just like in boots, household things, electrial stuff (tvs etc), music, videos, dvd, clothes, jewellery etc etc etc all under 1 roof, on 1 level and no need to pay before moving departments.
Yes yes yes, we have Walmart, but that place is crap and is not easily reachable either. in the uk there was always a superstore near you. Actually, I used to pass 3 supermarkets to get to the adsa superstore near me back in leicester cos it was worth that extra distance to be able to get all I wanted in 1 go.

Anyway, if this place does open, as I have a car, I would be willing to give some of you a lift when I go...if you want that is. If not I shall enjoy myself shopping and will think of you guys trapesing round town for your stuff!

Let me throw in a vote for all the fixings I need to make good ol' puertoriqueno home cooking:

Goya Adobo, Sazon Goya, Goya Black Beans, Goya Black Bean Soup, Sofrito, Goya Arroz Amarillo, Goya Giandules... hell, pretty much anything Goya. Oh, and Frank's Red Hot and the best hot sauce from Mexico: Valentina - in the 1 liter bottles.

-- Avery AT scowl DOT nu

Ex Pat shop?? It's becoming a "Non-German" food shop innit?!

Does it matter where the EX-patriates come from??

If I can make peoples lives just a little bit more comfortable AND make a Cent or two, then I will be a happy Bunny.

I will hope to stock things that my Villagers would like to buy too.

I do not want to be narrow minded about it.

Oh Bex, I'm certainly with you on that one... oh, for an English supermarket!! Where you can get your painkillers, your loo rolls and your beans within the space of 5 aisles! Tremendous!

Talking about loo roll...I can't stand the stuff in the UK anymore. A German friend of mine brought an entire car-boot full of loo roll when he first moved over to the UK, and while I thought it was quite amusing at the time I can now understand why - the stuff here is so much nicer!

Imperial Leather foaming shower gel...
Hmmmm
P

MysteryMan - yes, somewhat. I love their "All the way from Tuam" album, there wasn't one song on there I didn't enjoy, but then bought another one (something like "If this is Rock n Roll I want my old job back", I think) and didn't like it nearly so much. Maybe I just picked a bad one?

King of Shaves shaving oil!

Since your thinking of opening up near me, I won't bother then. Though if your looking for staff, give me a shout.
My grandson has been visiting recently, and the wee shite wouldn't drink anything but "Robinson's blackcurrant and apple, special "R", no added sugar". Therefore, if you manage to bring that, you'll have my custom.
Flour and raising agents ;cream of tartar, baking powder and bicarbonate of soda, would be beneficial. Plus, cream eggs, cadbury caramel, frys cream, fry's turkish delight and a good selection of biscuits and crisps.
Oh! and one other thing, I desperately need a new matteress, so if you can manage a silient-night miracoil 180 x 200cm or two 90 x 200cm, then I would indeed be impressed. My current Schlarafia (cost a fortune) latex number, is driving me to distraction. It's like sleeping on a tablet of stone!
So, yes, I would be interested if you opened a shop.

Hi Granny

I had absolutely no Idea that you were thinking of doing such...

Maybe we should meet and discuss, who knows what will happen

I think I have an empty van coming from the yUK in the next three weeks.. will see what Ican do on the matress front.

Get in touch

G