Purchasing a guitar for a beginner guitarist

I’m currently in the market for a new or second-hand acoustic guitar suitable for someone who has never touched a guitar before but will begin taking lessons soon. I’ve checked out the thread on guitar shops in Munich, which is helpful, but I was hoping to get some specific input on what type of guitar to buy, how much I should spend, necessary accessories, that kind of stuff.

It’d also be good to know which of the shops in Munich is best for finding acoustic guitars for beginners.

I know there are lots of TT guitarists, from experienced professional musicians to novices, so any and all advice is appreciated.

I think these look like a cool idea for tekkie geeks:

http://www.fretlight.com/

Obviously I will get slagged off by the "proper" guitarists but looks like fun.

My kids are starting on "Guitar Hero II" on the XBOX 360 instead!!!

Well, for a beginner you definitely want an acoustic. You should be able to pick up a good quality, cheap acoustic for a couple hundred Euros max. You might want to also buy some strings, if it's a used guitar, as it's sometimes hard to tell how old the strings are. There are different opinions on how heavy gauge string to use for a beginner, but I started with light gauge strings. Finally, they'll need to use a pitch pipe for tuning (unless there's a tuned piano available).

I'd also consider the width of the neck - too wide and someone with small hands might have a problem forming chords. Too narrow and someone with bigger hands/fingers will also get frustrated. Defnitely a lighter gauge of strings - nylon. Steel strings are harder on beginner fingers. If it is a child then you can even get a 3/4 size guitar.

Hmm...accessories... I prefer a hard case because of extra safety when transporting the guitar, but makes it bulkier and is more expensive. A couple of picks would come in handy. Also a capo might not be a bad idea for a beginner to make it easier to change keys for group sing-alongs. Definitely a pitch pipe for tuning, and don't forget special guitar cleaning liquid or spray (along with a soft cloth). Perhaps a shoulder strap might come in handy? And last but not least, a beginner book of chords with the learner's favourite music for added incentive. Amazing how hard a person will work at practicing when in the end they can play their favourite song, even if it is just basic chords that can be sung along with.

Oh... and a nail cutter! Gotta keep those nails on the (usually) left hand short.

a couple hundred euros?! i bought my second hand yamaha for $60. They are all over Ebay!! The price you are willing to spend determines what brand you can get. Yamaha is easy to play, but doesn't sound that great for instance. I would go for an Ovation if I was you. Sound is so great you cant help to feel good about yourself.

The old "Music Shop" Munich. Now, Just Music Hanauer Str. 91A 80993 München

Talk to Roland, he's a stuck-up, arrogant, patronising bastard, but he knows his stuff.

Edit: The Chinese are now doing some really good copycat guitars at a fraction of the price of the originals. Of course not as good as the originals but nevertheless pretty good for the money.

I second that. The building is big but not big enough for the egos in there. But it is a good shop.

Your best online resource for guitar is www.guitarnoise.com. There's a guy there Dave Hodge who writes brilliant lessons. Print them off and learn from him.

When you need to learn scales ands chord get Fretboard Logic to learn the CAGED system

Your first task is to spend two weeks 15 mins a day simply doing finger exercises. You have to build up calluses on your left hand. Simply finger the top four frets up and down till it feels easier. Then <ou can start.

I'd borrow one to start with as I don't think it matters whatr you use in the beginning.

You'd be as well just getting a shortscale nylon acoustic to start with, with a relatively thin neck, it'll accomodate probably the most important part of beginning guitar, getting your finger memory up to speed. The nylon won't toughen your fingers up like metallic strings, but it'll make it easier to play and build your confidence. You can get a beginners guitar, just something for practicing and belting out open chords, for anywhere between 50€ and 200€. If you go to buy without the aid and input of a guitarist, get a shop assistant to tune it for you and then check the strings on the 12th fret. That'll give you a rough indication if the guitars a healthy one or not. If the open note differs to the 12th, it can be a sign that the intonation is out on the guitar and you'll have problems keeping it in tune as it gets older. Plenty of good beginners books out there to show you chord formations and fingering but the best way to learn IMO, is to just strum along to songs you really like.

Thanks so much, everybody, for the great input. It helps a lot and I really appreciate all the thoughtful responses.

As Punchbear suggested, I think it would be a good idea to take a guitarist with me when I go to purchase. Store people can be helpful, but it's nice to have a more objective opinion from someone who isn't just trying to make a sale.

My budget is pretty flexible, so I wasn't looking to buy the absolute cheapest piece of wood in the store, but it also seems a bit silly to really splash out until you've gotten a feel for the instrument in general.

Very much a novice myself - but I had an electric tuner. It was the best, and even although I could tune by ear, kind of, I still needed the top note. It saved the hassel. It didn't cost alot and I used it all the time.

( unless there is a really good reason why no other professionals have suggested this to you...???)

Well mine wer both given to me. One by an old beer mate and the other by Frank Lee who used to be a bit of a reggae star in Munich.

You can pick up electronic tuners cheaply, the Korg CA-30 for about 20€, for example, and I think Harley Benton do cheap-as-chips tuners starting at about 5€. Never needed one (for the acoustic), perfect pitch you see The advantage with a tuning pipe is that if you're in any way musically inclined, you begin to memorise and recognise the notes. Which is a good thing. In terms of brands, Fender and Yamaha do good starters, robust and reliable, not too showy, meat and potatoes that go easy on the fingers and the pocket. I like Manhattan Music in Rosenheimerstrasse, they've a good range, reasonable prices and personable assistance.

I would avoid The Music Shop like the plague, GG. They'll see you as a novice and rip the money right out of your hand. Be warned. A big shop like that requires profit to run... and you'll be paying over the odds. I suggest you go check out a guitar that fits your fingers, write down it's details and check out the price at www.thomann.de - and then start shopping around and asking the guitar shops if they'll match Thomann prices.

When choosing between steel string acoustic or nylon string acoustic there are a couple of things to consider.

Nylon strings usually have a higher action (the space between the fretboard and the strings). For a beginner, this normally means that they will bend the strings out of tune when holding a chord and therefore the chord sounds nothing like intended.

Nylon string guitars are much easier on the fingers but will still produce some amount of pain and bruising at the ends of the fingers until the fingers become accustomed.

The nylon stringed guitar requires a little more care when playing to produce a good sound and therefore often teaches a good technique.

The steel stringed guitar is definitely harder on the fingers in the first stages.

The steel stringed guitar can generally have the action lowered further than it's nylon counterpart and this makes playing easier up to a certain point.

Any guitar bought straight out of the shop will probably need to be setup in order to make sure the intonation (the consistency of the notes as it goes up the neck) and action are suitable.

Guitars with a deeper body produce a fuller, louder sound. When you choose a medium depth body, it feels easier to hold but generally lacks in the body of the sound produced.

In my opinion when you have a guitar that is well setup and sounds good, the learning experience is more enjoyable because your only fighting with yourself and not the guitar as well.

I would buy a steel stringed guitar and some medium guage strings, the action lowered slightly (not real low as that is too hard when learning).

For steel strings I would always get Elixir strings (they last so long it's not funny and retain their sound quality because of a coating that prevent the rusting and degradation)
if not the elixir strings then definitely D'Addario. When you purchase normal steel strings they will generally begin to lose tone after the first day of exposure.

In order to maintain the tone of the strings, clean the strings after each use.

If you can't take a guitarist with you then have the should attendant play each guitar for you and pick the sound you like the most then have the guitar setup. But bear in mind that if the strings are old on the guitar it will sound different.

Definitely get an acoustic, and not an electric guitar. There are two basic types of acoustic: with nylon strings (also known as "classical guitar" or Konzertgitarre), or steel strings ("western" guitar). Nylon-string guitars are used for playing classical and flamenco, but are also very good for beginners. The neck is a bit wider than for a steel-string guitar, but the strings are much easier on the fingers.

Price range: You may be able to get a new guitar for around EUR 100 - 150. Maybe even EUR 70 if you find a bargain. I've seen beginner's guitars for that price at Lindberg in the Sonnenstrasse, and at Music Shop in Hanauer Strasse. Haven't been in either place recently though. Of course, for that price you'll be getting something fairly basic, but once the person has been playing for a year or two, they'll have a better idea of what kind of guitar they really want, and will be in a better position to spend their money wisely on an instrument that is right for them. There are also good second-hand guitars around, but I'd be wary of buying one if you don't know a lot about guitars.

Something that may make a big difference for a beginner is the height of the strings above the frets. A height of 3 or 4 millimetres at the 12th fret should be OK. More than that, and the instrument will be difficult to play. Less, and the strings may not have enough room to vibrate when played loudly. The height of the strings (the "action", to use the technical term) can be changed by making adjustments to one or both of the little (usually white) pieces that the strings pass over at each end (at the "bridge" and the "nut"), but you shouldn't fiddle with this yourself unless you really know your stuff. If necessary, the people in the shop should be able to do it.

Accessories:
A guitar bag or case is essential. You can get a flimsy soft bag for around 15 EUR, but all that will do is keep the dust off. It won't give any protection against knocks. You can get a good sturdy, well padded bag for a bit more. Often they have an arrangement of straps that allow you to carry the guitar on your back, like a rucksack. I never carry mine that way, but some people seem to find it practical. If you want to get professional, a hard guitar case will offer the best protection (prices start at around 70 EUR).

Someone mentioned pitch pipes for tuning. I have a set of these and find it difficult to tune my guitar to them. My ear just isn't practised enough. What I would recommend is an electronic tuner. This is a little gadget with a display that shows you whether each string of your guitar is tuned to the right pitch, or too high or too low. Price around 15 EUR.

As for shops, any shop selling guitars should have something suitable for a beginner. The big stores like Lindberg and Music Shop will have a large selection, but if you go to Music Shop, don't let the salesman, Roland, try to talk you into spending 50% more than what you had budgeted, for something far beyond your requirements.

You might be able to pick up a bargain at a shop called "Folk Laden", in the Einstein Strasse. (They used to be at Weissenburger Platz, but they moved a couple of years ago.) Don't remember the street number, but it's close to the intersection with Grillparzer Str., on the north side of the street, heading toward the town centre from Grillparzer. I pass by there often and they always have a large selection of guitars, with a few bargains in the window. The shop owners are nice and friendly.


I think they've been doing guitars for a long time. I have one which I bought second-hand from a friend, who assured me it was over 20 years old. Nothing fancy, but it has a very nice tone.

Wow, thanks for taking the time to write these incredibly detailed posts! As usual, TT is way more helpful than any of my Google searches.

There's one thing I should probably clarify. I'm not purchasing this guitar for myself, but as a gift for someone else. I had hoped to do this as a surprise, but from what I'm reading, the person who's going to actually be using the guitar should probably be present during the purchase.

On the other hand, the person I'm buying for truly has never touched a guitar before, so I'm not really sure it makes a difference to have them there. Thoughts?

Oh, and sorry for being so clueless.

What kind of a budget are you looking at?

Probably the 100 - 200€ range excluding accessories.

@GG - I wouldn't say it's essential for the person to be there when you buy the guitar. If as you say they have never touched a guitar before, then they probably don't really know what they're going to need anyway. On the other hand, a guitar is a very personal thing, and maybe the person has been reading up a bit on the subject and does already have some specific ideas about what they want. I'm assuming they have expressed an interest in learning guitar?

Don't worry about being clueless - there's a lot more to guitars than meets the eye (or ear).

Well if you need a guitar person to come with when you or the learner to be, buy the yoke, I'll volunteer to meet a complete stranger and test guitars for a complete stranger.

I would also say, unless it really has to be a surprise, that it is much better to have the person choose it themself.

It is quite amazing the difference in feel between different guitars; while it may not be a necessity for an absolute beginner, I ould still recommend it if possible.

When I bought a guitar a while back (admittedly not my first), I tried out about 10 different ones in te same price category, and there was no choice for me - I returned to the one I liked best, and the guy serving me said: I guessed that would be the one you'd want!

I went in the company of a guitar-playing TTer at lunch today to Lindberg, the music shop on Sonnenstrasse. They have a nice selection of acoustic and electric guitars, with prices starting at €70 for a basic classical guitar.

The sales guy who helped us at Lindberg wasn’t overwhelmingly awesome or anything, but he was polite and helpful and spoke English.

After about 45 minutes of deliberation, I purchased an Ibanez V72E-BK. It’s black and it looks very Johnny Cash. It was also quite reasonably priced at €148 which included a nice Ibanez branded case and strap. It has an onboard tuner which I think will be really helpful for a beginner guitarist.

I also wanted to put in a good word for Oliver Thedieck. I am paying for the recipient of this guitar to have several lessons with Oliver, who responded to my initial inquiry very promptly and has since been extremely friendly, helpful and flexible.

Hieber & Lindberg
Sonnenstr. 15
80331 München
Tel: 089 - 55 14 60
Mo - Fr 10.00 - 19.00 Uhr
Samstag 10.00 - 18.00 Uhr

Oliver Thedieck
http://www.oliverthedieck.de/

Many thanks again to all who contributed advice!

Ah! Shame you didn't go into the drum section while you were there. You could have met Andi Dick.

We had to leave in a hurry since my guitar-playing companion was getting tempted to buy a twelve-string.

Sin, I'm surprised you're not heckling me over the fact that I went against your advice and could have paid less for that guitar if I'd bought it online.

Just a quick 2c...


No, no, NO.


And the massive disadvantage is that they are totally and utterly shite. They make a farty kazoo noise, and are useless. Tuning forks are way better, you can feel the symathetic vibrations when you get the right note on the string, and electric tuners are better still. Glad you got a built in tuner on that Ibanez, built in tuners are ace.

Something I recommend to any guitarist is some stuff called Fast Fret. Its basically lube, but seriously helps with prolonging the life of your strings.

so I'm going to buy myself a new guitar since i noticed mine just sounds crappy and it has not been fun to practice these last weeks. i'm willing to spend 500 Euro. is that ridiculous? i know, you can spend thousands on a good acoustic one.

i am still a beginner, my transition between chords is slow, but not sloppy unless i don't look at my fingers. i plan to go to a local shop called Sessions and after reading y'alls tips have a question about neck size. i have small hands, the biggest problem is my index finger - it is really short. i cannot play a barre chord to save my life - granted i just get frustrated and give up. is there any trick or clue? do the make guitars especially for people with small hands?

yes you can buy guitars with 3/4 size necks, Generally they are recommended for children and teenagers, and I wouldn't worry about doing bars, they sometimes make songs easier to play, but not essential. Also you will be surprised fingers stretch with practice I would not go for €500 for a guitar if you are a beginner,(Says I who decided to try out 6 strings instead of just playing Bass and walked out of the shop with a Strat at 900) I would go for a cheap Yamaha (F310 or F315) I had one for years and sold it a few years ago on TT. Good quality, very robust and a reasonable sound. Stay away from the big names like Fender and Gibson, you will end up paying for the name. Ibanez/Yamaha/Aria make good quality guitars at reasonable prices.
Edit: the Baton Rouge R 34 C looks quite nice as a Taylor copy, I would give that a try and see if it has the right feel and sound

There are also some pretty good cheap Chinese jobs for a couple of hundred, although I'd be wary of buying something too cheap - you get what you pay for and crucifying you fingers until they're bloody on a fretboard with appalling action kind of takes the fun out of playing. I used to play a Korean Martin which cost about 400 DM donkey's years ago and was pretty good. The old Music Shop near OEZ (now called Just Music I think) has a good selection and the guy there (Roland) knows his stuff even if he is a bit arrogant

crap! i had a look at another music shop in my area and online their Ibanez collection is huge! this is gonna take me weeks to find one.

Oops, just seen your in Mannheim, sorry about the useless Munich Music Shop info. Just try out a few at your local shop and choose one that "feels right"...

Just a bit of advice for Lindberg. Ask for Claudio, he's always the most helpful and always knocks a couple percent off the price

Keine Bange. I'm going to Pro Music here in Mannheim tomorrow to see.

so i went and had a look and settled on 4 guitars:
Cort - MR710F
Crafter/ --> Guitar Gallery --> GCL & GAE Series
Ibanez - AW40 ECE

I noticed that in order to get a real good one, I would need to spend 600€ + and 500€ was (is) my limit. Those 4 ran between 400-450€. The Cort had a great sound, but in general, the Crafter seemed more willing to forgive my mistakes and the GCL with color "sunburst" was oh so pretty. So I think sound isn't so important for me and my technique sucks.

Now a pal has just told me he is selling his Crafter GAE (he's been playing 20 years or so. Can only buy a new one once he sells his old one.) for half of what it would cost new. Do used ones sound better - meaning they have had more "miles"?, but with no onboard tuner. What to do? Oh no.

I bought an Ovation celebrity for €350. I have been playing for 30 years and if anything lets the quality down its my fingers and not the fguitar, I have used it for live and rcording work. You can get a good beginners guitar for less than 600. Just remember what dear old Keef said, playing guitar is easy you need five strings two figers and one arsehole.

You can certainly find a good instrument for 400-500€. I like both Crafter and Cort (Ibanez acoustics not so much), and can also recommend Waldens and Art & Lutherie. But really you should buy a guitar that makes you want to play it. It should sound good to your ears (have someone ELSE play it as well and listen to how it sounds), it should be comfortable to play (both holding it and putting your fingers on the fretboard) and you should like how it looks. If you don't like how it looks you won't want to play it, so it's at least one factor to consider. Don't worry about the name on the headstock.

Buy an electronic tuner. They are very easy to use. Tuning your ear and learning to tune your guitar is critical but it takes time to learn to do it manually, and in the meantime you don't want to play an out of tune instrument. You can buy one for about 20€.

You could check JMS Music out, we are the English Music Shop in Oberbayern

Just searching around myself for a guitar shop. (New to Munich.) Check out this old thread:

http://www.toytowngermany.com/lofi/index.php/t3764.html