Breakdown of a German/American relationship

You are crazy. Everyone's against you, but you're struggling valiantly, like a martyr, through it all. Even planning and plotting you're revenge...Crazy!

Stop now or this is going to end with an axe murder or something.

Let's wrap this up shall we? Although many of you have formed an opinion about someone whom you don't, nor ever will know, but your opinions are going in the absolute opposite direction that I am. Other than the paragraph faux pas and/or grammatical errors (you must please forgive me as typically, I have much better and more meaningful things to do with my time - aside from posting freaky stories and playing naked darts thanks). I'd really like to clarify a few things.

Remember, although you felt as if I'd ripped your eyeballs out with my long post (and whining), I left an awful lot of detail out - due to the length of the post. For example - I agree that our anniversary was about he & I which is why I couldn't understand him spending the entire day at her side shopping (while I waited with my mother in the area with other bored husbands & gramps) for her to finish this shopping that yielded the same results as did the previous weekend (in the exact same stores)...the same clothes still would not fit and she wouldn't find her size in stores that cater to size 2. Prior to going shopping, she clarified that she only needed to enter one store for one item she didn't purchase the previous weekend. Of course to do so would mean the day wouldn't be "all about her" therefore, instead of making the day about my mother (as intended), it quickly became about her just because she could - all the way to getting the ice cream she clearly could do without - especially since we had breakfast less than two hours prior - so I found that to be completely disrespectful toward my mom. But, hey mom's a big girl & didn't let it get to her. So "our" anniversary was spent with me hanging out with mom while "biggin" attempted yet again to squeeze into clothes that didn't have a fighting chance to begin with. She was nice enough to show everyone the thongs she'd purchased though - classy. After I'm near tears (from hurt feelings and a painful visual of her in these panties), my boyfriend finally either takes me seriously or just felt guilty and started spending "time" with me on "our" special day. As he did this, out rolled the distasteful German comments. I find it amazing how one cannot say anything nice (or anything at all) during a proposed anniversary toast by my mother, but had plenty to say otherwise. You're right, maybe that's JUST me.

Further, I can understand how everyone may assume I'm such a vengeful person through my last post as emotion is non existent and can be easily misconstrued through typed text, but I assure you, my intent was to simply say that I WILL get on with my relationship (and deal with any suspicion that may come up in the future alone as I have been without his help or support). "By having him "fend" for himself should he ever have reason to suspect me of anything (which he clearly won't because I have no intention of hurting him in ANY way), but should he ever assume the worst (as I have), I will let him "work it out" on his own (as I have) and instead of comforting him, and yes, I will tell him simply "to prove it" as he did me. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Also, as I stated, I WILL be kind and cordial come December. (I don't know whom you people are hanging out with in your personal lives, but I assure you that I am not one to "stick around" just for a "Christmas Revenge Story." Please...) Just as blum said, and my intent to convey was - that SHE will out herself and I have no intention of being rude, setting her up, or giving anyone enough power to destroy me or my relationship. I've already given entirely too much power recently to BOTH of them. I gave her power in the beginning to be kind so she would have no reason to feel threatened during her visit. I thought in sympathiziing with her "potential" feelings of intrusion by myself (which is how it felt, thus becoming the guest in my own home), that she would see my respect for her relationship with her Uncle and have no reason to be threatened. However, she mistook my kindness for weakness and took the power I'd given her to fuel her aggressiveness - but hey, that was my fault for giving it to a 21 year old to begin with expecting a mature reaction. I should've known better at the point she told me that everyone thinks she's SO innocent and such a good girl, but that she's really a very bad girl - especially with a few drinks in her. I know some of you morons will ask for her phone number now - assuming you've read this far, but sorry - I'll let her & you morons - you know who you are - sit home alone with your computer & masturbate. Nonetheless people, I'm certainly not stupid OR crazy enough to be rude or set myself up for a fall. Her feelings will come out as they did here, but this time it won't just be "me" who experiences her emotions. How anyone came up with me "plotting" is beyond me.

Finally, as for the citizenship...it wasn't just "given" away...he's worked very hard for it and it means a lot to him - therefore, of course I would expect him to honor it AND everything it stands for (including OUR culture and that nude darts with anyone, much less your niece is completely unacceptable).

Now I must go & get on with my life and relationship. Thanks for everything...especially the attention (and power) you've given to my post, lol. Get out of the house people & go DO something with your lives!!! Go meet someone or better yet, round up the family for some ale & nude darts!! Go get um!!

I thought long posts would be easier to read with paragraphs...

Can you sum up quickly-- is everything ok now or not?

hmm...

While some of the replies were definitely rude and insensitive, you have to remember this is the internet.
People gave you their opinions because you asked for them. You asked us to help you, and we do not know you either, why do you want the help from strangers if their opinions are not valid anyway, unless you happen to agree with them?
If you post a story like this online (publicly!), you have to expect replies ranging from nice and thoughtful to rude and inconsiderate.
People here do not know you and people will not sugarcoat their opinions for a stranger or only tell you what you want to hear.
Yes, some people are assholes here, but that people formed opinions about you or your boyfriend, well, you asked them to. In order to give advice one has to have an opinion first. Don't like it? Don't ask for it!

I personally know how people here act especially with topics like this, and I would never ever post about a personal problem like this on TT. I would talk to my friends about it, and there is another forum I post on where people are sensitive and considerate, and I have posted there before about stuff, but TT is just not that. I am a sensitive person and the last thing I need when I am in a situation that is getting to me is people I don't know using me as an easy target to take out their frustrations, so I don't give them that chance.

Is it not clear that if one thinks that one needs advice in a forum about a private relationship that it is over?
If you suffer so much that you must ask the general posting public their opinion on the follies of your situation with your SO, It is "Game Over". Follow your instincts and realize that it is beyond repair and pass this message on to anyone else who seeks advice about their SO on a public forum.
If anyone has ever had this method work (posting the follies of a relationship to the posting public and it helped). Please let us know.
take care,
space

My dear I was hammered myself this week on TT so I know just what it feels like. Hint: Never use TT to help out with problems. As one of the more sensitive souls here it is plain useless take it from me.

All I read was nude darts and ice cream. Can someon eplease help me ou there?

If I ever run across a teacher teaching stream of conciousness, they get a swift kick to the fanny.
Focus Curious, that, and commas, periods and what not.

On the subject, and taking your issue seriously for an instant, please go and talk, face to face, in person to the smartest, warmest person you know. Several times. 'cus here, on a lost souls forum, I doubt you'll get the best support.

She's absolutely right. I am nornally very sensitive myself, but when I have had beer and its late night weekend _I am notexcessively serious.

Look love hope everything works out., I reckon the web at this plaf ei snot the best source of support you need. Many of us here are in neee d of a little bit fif fun this time of night,. Good luck.

It is that.

Jeremy, how do you measure the sensitvity of the OP or yours. Does it hurt when you type?
Perhaps to both of you, a lesser use of superlatives - the most, the best, etc will bring you warmer replies.

Superlatives are grains of sands in the Interweb.

I have to politely disagree. The reason I came to this site about a month ago was to understand my German boyfriend who I did love and admire very much. Sure, I had friends and family telling me how he was no good etc. But my friends and family are people who loved me... so I knew their opinions were biased. The people here were ... valuable and well... GREAT! NOT because they told me what I wanted to hear; I honestly hoped that the problem I was having with my SO was due to my lack of understanding the German male "personality" or German culture on and on.. But its because of the GREAT advice I got here that I moved on. Unbiased and intelligent answers to my questions from a wide variety of people expressing their views in their own unique way.

But perhaps I should say what really we all already know: Its difficult to take seriously a story like hers... its just too over the top. But a lot of us here following this post were really tryyying to understand the situation, even though it was quite bizarre. (especially the women as being supportive is our long-suit!) BUT even I, a very sensitive person, can see why some jumped all over Curious. Not really my style, but I could see that coming a mile away.. Because this is where you get a good dose of honesty.


To sum it up:
a ) Living with her SO for 2 years or so happily
b ) His niece comes to visit.
c ) Niece shows her nipple piercing which irritates curious22
d ) Curious so upset that she decided to seek revenge by suggesting nude darts with SO and Niece
e ) Plan backfires
f ) Curious further upset that niece does not acknowledge anniversary of 2 years together with boyfriend
g ) Yells at niece
h ) Niece cries
i ) SO upset with curious
j ) Tries to patch things up with SO... he wont have it.
k ) She posts on TT looking for answers

Ice cream? Missed that part.

The niece had to have ice cream two hours after breakfast after shopping for a long time, leaving curious with her mother on her anniversary.

Man...hmmmm

Living with SO happily for 2 yrs.

21 yr old niece visits; either competed for alpha female role during visit and/or cops attitude due to jealousy over relationship with SO/Uncle.

Displays her ill feelings through jokes/comments the entire time in German because she didn't have the nuts to make an off color comment or joke about me (or to me) in her perfect English.

The fact that I do consider her family, I did more than "bend" to accommodate her, but perhaps due to her age (I like to think rather than assuming the absolute worst) she was either unable or incapable of appreciating this.

The "nudity" didn't bother me, but rather the sexual prowess displayed along with the nudity and inappropriate behavior (sexual inuendos and references to sperm, sex on the beach, & many others) is what made me uncomfortable.

He defended her behavior by pretending it didn't exist, thus I felt more than "slighted." I felt like an unwelcome guest in my home who was nothing more than "in the way" and that my absence would've been appreciated so she could spend time alone with her Uncle. Which btw I offered (my absence) to afford them the "quality time" it seemed she desired and further, so she wouldn't be inconvenienced to move to another room if my mother visited. She seemed pleased with the idea of me leaving for the weekend to visit my mother instead. SO said no, we stick to original plan with mother coming to visit because he didn't want me to leave - for any reason.

The weekend visit was to celebrate Mother's Day and in addition, was our 2nd anniversary. Niece ignored "Mother's Day" making most of the day about her desire to shop at the same stores she'd visited the previous w/e (although she stated she only needed one thing from the mall to begin with). Since my mom had a sprained ankle, being led all over the mall wasn't part of the plan. The plan was to go & get the one thing niece needed that she didn't purchase the previous weekend. Since it was our anniversary, he asked what I wanted. I replied, "I just want some time with you & don't want to feel as if I must compete for your attention, affection, or time in anyway today." He says ok, but spends the day in & out of every store shopping with the niece while my mother, her sprained ankle, and myself wait for the niece to finish shopping. My boyfriend somehow felt that his 21 yr old niece wasn't prepared to shop "on her own" so instead of being at my side on "our" special day, he was at her side...a bit disappointing to me. At this point, she'd already been visiting for nearly two weeks and had shopped plenty - in fact, the entire two weeks were about her, so making the day about someone else for a change (my mom) didn't seem so "malicious" to me. Finally, when we did shop for mom the niece yawned & sighed in an obvious attempt to display her boredom and readiness to return home.

As stated, it was also our anniversary in which my mother toasted to congratulate us. Although niece raised her glass to the toast, she just laughed uncomfortabley and said nothing. The entire day she made inappropriate comments about he/I and our relationship (mostly in German to him) such as that "she" had no home due to the two of us. I find it a bit odd that "she" had no home considering she'd successfully made me the "guest" and he did nothing to change that...perhaps say, "hey why don't we speak English for the day because I'm tired of translating when it's unnecessary and it's good practice for you." That would've been a nice attempt on his part had he considered my feelings to begin with. So her comments/jokes really began to offend me and his constant defensive behavior towards her didn't help. More than offense though, I felt these behaviors confirmed I was correct about her negative feelings (either toward me as a person or me as her Uncle's SO).

On her last night, she started again...this time with the "lazy American" comment after I'd discussed my career. My SO has recently become a US citizen and considering he paid for her plane ticket and shopping as always, I found it offensive of her to say that. Although the comment was directed toward me, it is his US dollar that affords her ingrateful ass the luxury of visiting. Afterall, he's Santa Claus and this is Disney World when she's here. So I'd said I'd had enough & said I didn't appreciate the comment. He nastily says "next time you make a joke, filter it through her!" (meaning me) THAT pissed me off b/c that wasn't the point, the point is that I can clearly tell the difference (as any of you could) when someone is being shitty or funny. The fact that I called them both out on this (but still had no proof) pissed him off & made her cry. It hurt me to see her upset and I sincerely meant my apology.

I conveyed that I respect your culture, but I would appreciate the same of mine and that if she were on the receiving end of this behavior she would feel the same. She continued to cry and he be pissed...as my sincerity and apology weren't enough. I had to think quick of a way to cool the situation "I" had caused. So I said (in ref to the culture), "For example, in the States, we do not walk about the home nude in front of family or reveal our breasts so this is a little strange & uncomfortable for me only because I'm not used to this." They say, "oh but this is normal in Germany." I then say, "ok then, since it's normal for you & uncomfortable for me - then I will make myself just as uncomfortable in my home as I have made you." Since it's normal and you say playing darts or games nude is ok, then let's do this so I can make myself uncomfortable for making YOU uncomfortable.

Right then & there, my SO - as a man, an American man, a partner, and an Uncle (to this "child") should've said, "NO, that's not necessary, you've apologized & it's enough." Instead, he agrees to this "normal" behavior & begins to strip, followed by the niece & myself. The ONLY thing I INSISTED on was that I was hearing them correctly and that this is "normal." To that end, we play nude darts. Of COURSE I'm uncomfortable - that was the point remember? I say, "well ok then this is great fun and since it's so normal, then your parents or our friends/co-workers from EU will play this when they visit too?" He says at that point, "no, it is NOT normal, but nudity is ok." I move to reclothe upon hearing this is NOT normal - and so do they. I said, "oh no, please don't let me make YOU uncomfortable...if you're having fun and are comfortable, please continue" & as so they did.

The last comment referenced that I moved to apologize to him & he wouldn't have it. That's not so. I have no reason to apologize and thus didn't. He still denies she ever felt anything but kindness for me - which I will never believe b/c I was here & know what happened. Why he couldn't just say, "hey, ok...you did get on her nerves and/or yes, maybe she don't like you" is beyond me. Big deal, she doesn't have to like me no more than I have to like her...it's no big deal so to me he continues to defend her behavior and it does make me suspicious in ways. I felt like he LET her (and WITH her) "put me in my place." Having said that, he can't understand why I cannot move past it without HIS help. The last thing I would do is throw away a good thing as we've never had problems prior to this. Things have been said or expressed since her departure (in ref to nude darts) that I also find disrespectful, however, according to him...that's MY perception. So now I feel as if anytime in the future if I get upset or angry over anything it will be just that - my perception - and that he'll never take responsibility for his role or be accountable for his actions because he has a different perception (one of that he is not human & never fucks up).

I hope that gives those asking a little clarity. It's awfully hard to ask for an honest opinion without providing all of the details, and for that, I am sorry...but would be pointless to ask without it. We are not doing as bad since she left, but it's on/off. Actions speak louder than words and it really seems he just doesn't "get" it, but feels more like he doesn't care so I have no idea what will become of us. I do know that two months ago I would've never wondered or worried about our future. Again, thanks for everything. This is my final post reguardless of how drunk or cruel anyone wants to be. I only came here like blum hoping to gain insight into German family life, social situations, and German male/female opinions. I got some pretty diverse advice along the way, so again thanks & I wish everyone the best. Take care.

Threesome!

you seriously need to get over the anniversary thing...you have just been dating for 2 years... thats a bit different than celebrating a 2 yr marriage anniversary...it seriously means nothing to others. So this guy's niece came to visit from Germany? Well if she is only there for 2 weeks and paid all that money and traveled all those miles, I can understand why your boyfriend went shopping with her...he was being a good host. Her mother wasn't there, nor was your boyfriends...you expect them to drop everything for your mom? If you wanted to make mothers day so special, why didn't you just spend it with your mother and let your bf and his niece go shopping? It just seems like everything has to be about you...
But anyway, it seems like everything your boyfriend does is wrong, so not sure how thats making you happy enough to stay in the relationship?

Forget the anniversary issue, does every post have to be the length of a short novel?

I will try this quick as I've got to go and watch Shriek 3 with the wife.

1. Nudity is more accepted in German than the UK and America. They have same sex saunas and you see more nudity on TV. Some people of course accept it more than other but still...

2. Some other TTers can back me up or shoot me down but making a big deal about 2 year aniversary (between family nd friends) whilst dating sounds OTT - I've NEVER heard of it - I would have laughed. In all my friends I have never wished some well for an aniversary for dating. Even friends who are married do the celebrating between themselves. In the UK, it becomes a family celebration when you reach 15 or 21 or something years...

3. Mothers day was your mothers day between you and your mother. Why did you just leave especially as your mother had a injured foot. I for one can't stand someone who does or more so continues to do something then complains afterwards. You had the chance to make your excuses and leave but didn't! You were not forced to traips around the shops...

4. My wife is calling me - you asked at the beginning if you are crazy - maybe you are not crazy but you are being crazy about this whole incident. I feel sorry for your man...

Get over it - more on and show that you are 33 and not 17...

Stanford...smart arse...his wife even says.

For the record...neither the uncle or niece's father understand WHY she avoided the "anniversary" issue. They BOTH said it's odd - afterall her father congratulated us and said it IS quite normal and further is congratulated as well for even long friendships. It's not about the fact that she didn't congratulate for God's sake - it's my point that her feelings toward me are correct or she would've be "considerate" - something Americans firmly believe in. I explained this as part of our culture & said it was hurtful b/c although we are unmarried, it's a celebration of our love and not to congratulate would be similar to me knowing it's her birthday, but not saying "Happy Birthday." Even after the simple breakdown, she still didn't say it - just that it's not normal (although according to her father it IS).

The point is that it was ok for me to "bend" to her culture in many ways (down to stripping to make an ass of myself to make the poor baby stop crying), but she couldn't respect my/our culture not once. I guess it's "normal" in Germany not to express gratitude for shopping, dinner, etc. However, her manners were good otherwise - except when it came down to him. Didn't matter if 2 of us said "thank you" for dinner, she didn't chime in - & there is a reason for this behavior - and I know it's not b/c it's "normal" practice to be rude and inconsiderate in Germany or anywhere else.

It's amazing how you attack my maturity (or lack thereof). Posting for opinions is the dumbest thing I've ever done, but proves a few things about "ze Germans." Run along to watch "Shrek 3" and pay close attention to the consideration and emotion you'll see in your cartoon from American film makers. I suggest you take notes & should you visit the States - well, you'd best head North where all of the assholes live if you want to fit in.

umm, curious, I have the distinct impression that most people on this forum are not German - and we travel a bit. By calling all Americans from the North what you do, in a nice blanket statement, in your post, is certainly going to bring consideration and love.

edit: Stanford is from some island...

@curious22: Did you actually figure out yet, that you can click on the nickname of the people in order to see their profile and find out about their nationality and native language?

HEY! Im from the North! Dont think anyone ever called me that before! lol..
Somehow Ill manage to get over it...

Btw genius, yes I had figured that out by now, but more importantly - I only looked at profiles of those who made any sense to me (or those who were completely rude just to see what real live "arse holes" looked like). The rude ones' pics were down right scary & the ones with 1/2 a brain weren't stupid enough to put there personal info out there...haven't YOU figured THAT out by now? Just "curious," lol.

I know I said I'd stop posting, but this is too good...you people crave attention and require a "stage" to get through life which apparently you find here on "TT." The attention you've given to my post is comical and the internet is your stage to shine. I'm no "doctor," (and I don't play one on tv eitherl), but in my "professional" opinion, you people are either extremely lonely, are outcasts, possibly a few sexual deviants, or crave attention since you obviously don't get enough of it in your personal or professional lives. So even after you go out for a night & get drunk this is what you do?? You come home buzzed or drunk to make out with your laptop?? Do you seriously do this? After a nice buzz, I like something sweet or some sleep (or even perhaps to cuddle up with someone special & get my groove on), but the LAST thing that EVER crosses my mind (or anyone I know for that matter) is to get online & give advice to ANYONE - LOL muchless, someone who've I never (nor ever) will meet about shit I couldn't give a rat's ass about! You guys ARE all actually very compassionate, sensitive people afterall!

Mr. Stanford (aka "Island Man") - you should praise God that you're even still married, lol. You hang out here more than a teenager! You're a husband & a father - how does your old lady put up with this silly habit of yours?? i.e. "Gotta go, Mrs. Stanford is calling me & I have to go see Shrek 3." I can hear her nagging at you over & over to get off the computer "Honey, your food is getting cold - Honey, get off the damn computer & take the feking trash out you kraut!!" For fucks sake, you should be ashamed of yourself!! You've given ME more attention than you've your OWN wife & kids the past 2 wks!! You don't even know me, teehee!!! Your poor wife probably craves the attention you give to everyone else on TT...go give it to her tiger! You should probably lay off the video games for the next week or so as well. I think this will do wonders for your personal life (and you might even get to hang out with your old lady instead of TT, followed by Madam Palm & her 5 sisters), teehee!!

Ya knowwww... 1 week or so ago I get this little notification on an old thread I started from a sweet sounding girl seemingly in the same situation I was in a while back. I came back here with the hopes of giving her the same help that I received. But you cannot help someone so seriously self-obsessed and closed minded. Curious, IF you would listen for a moment, you would hear a lot of truth in their words to you. I get this picture of you incessantly blabbering on about nonsense until your poor boyfriends ears bleed! You say he is unresponsive... my guess is he just wants you to STFU already. If, by chance, another American gal comes along and reads my posting, thinking they want to "connect" with me to get my opinion and compare notes, please only do if your difficulties involve normal things like dealing with long distance relationships or not understanding why he does what he does etc. Infact, scratch the last bit. If you are wondering why your man is a jerk, it has nothing to do with where he is from.. its just because he is. Does not matter where in the world you live, people are people and yes, even lovely countries like germany will yield a bad apple now and again. Also, IF your relationship problems involve anything that one would only hear about on Jerry Springer.. please, don't bother contacting me directly. Also, do not contact me if words in your vocabulary include "biggin", "old lady" or "Getting my groove on",as I can only relate to well informed, educated people. (like the kind you find here) I have to admit however, this was almost as good as Footballers Wives! (hey, its a guilty pleasure)

Was starting a rousing game of nude darts taught as an example of proper ways to deal with conflict in Shrek 3? Cant remember.. I think Donkey was pierced though...

Well I have to get busy now. I have a lot of anniversary celebrations to arrange...I've apparently really dropped the ball! Okay there is my 1month anniversary with the guys at work.. and the 12 year with Chris and Lisa.. 9 years with Tracy..oh, and a 25 year with my childhood friend who used to eat chalk..is that gold or silver.. or should I just get him more chalk...

ok curious... I am American and have never been congratulated for dating someone 2 yrs..not even 5 years... thats between you and your partner, no one else gives a crap..even in America. What do you do, Do you go around telling people its your 2 year dating anniversary? If you told me that I'd say congratufuckinglations. I don't even conratulate anyone on their anniversary except my parents, but they've been married for almost 30 years... thats a bit different than dating for 2 years. And please clarify this one thing...did you move in together as soon as you started dating or what? Maybe you moved too fast. And WHY for the love of God did you have to bring it up to your BF's Father and his niece's father? I have been holding off on this, but the more you post the more I realize the answer to your question is yes, you must be crazy.

Tried to read this but War and Peace is a quicker option.

However, the term " attention whore " springs readily to mind.

I like the fact that the skin has grown proportionally with the use of Strunk & White (see here).

Serious curious, your screed is a scree off of that hillock of a relationship. But your right, this is most amusing - remember that once you flounce, most likely there will be echos of nude lawn darts here for years to come - probably in Moooonich Meetup - (a Sunday event with children and nieces, of course at the English Garden). Thanks for the contribution, we wee lonely, outcast, sexual deviants appreciate it.

It sounds like I've become the straight man to curious22's flounce. Or should I say sexual deviant, sad bastard, attention seeker and someone who neglects his wife and non-existant kids.

Sorry Curious22 you asked for opinions but can't handle any that disagree with you. I.e those that point out the bad blood between you and your boyfriend may be more of your own creation since even if the niece is threatened by your relationship you are the one hanging on to the victim status... Lets be clear on this the niece that visits twice a year... What do you want us to do capitulate and tell you that your boyfriend is a pig and a bastard? When the evidence from your ramblings is rather to the contrary...

As for TT - it's a great place - you can have some debates with very intelligent and witty people, you can be entertained, you can be informed, yeah sometime people are harsh or too direct on here (and there are defo some arse***s) but still why should it be sadder than watching uninteracive TV...

Stanford proud to be a member of TT.

PS. By the way happy anniversary!

Edit: Forgot to say Shrek 3 was really funny and lots of entertainment. It even had a nice hollywood moral ending to boot... There was no nude darts, no pierced nipples even though I did look as it was the Germany version!!!

Curious,

Sounds like you put yourself through a lot of drama you couldn't handle.

I'll be direct with you since you asked for advice. Your relationship with that guy wasn't going to work anyway. It has nothing to do with "culture," he's a more progressive type man with a more relaxed view about nudity, sexuality, etc. But he's not able to put you at ease about it. Forget him.

You wanted to please him and be relaxed with the niece -- let's say you "subconsciously" wanted to try. That's why you impulsively suggested the naked darts thing. When the niece exposed the pierced nipple, it must have seemed like some kind of a 'challenge' to you, and you rose to the occasion. Naked darts, now that's creative.

But let's be honest. That was an INSANE idea unless you ("subconsciously again") wanted to experiment with a trio, but I guess the boyfriend couldn't keep you calm and you panicked. You were obviously too stressed to relax and deal with a situation like that. But give yourself an "A" for effort.

I'm sure lots of people fantasize about naked orgies and darts -- no joke, I'm sure they do, but very few actually attempt to act them out. Props to you for going for it.

Next time you do go for something like that, I would suggest you do that with someone with whom you feel more comfortable and in a situation that feels more relaxed.

On the bright side, you are one experience richer and wiser. In the future you will be able to look back on this event and laugh. I'm sure your future boyfriend(s) and/or girlfriend(s) will appreciate the story too.

Thanks for sharing it with us!

Feel free to post an update. And if you decide to try anything similarly adventurous, be sure to report back to us.

I'm so disappointed. I'm usually not one to respond to these kinds of rants/debates/etc., but I couldn't help myself.

Curious:

As an American living in Germany, I am completely blown away by your ignorance, intolerance, and immaturity. Thank you for reminding me why I've chosen to build a life over here.

You claim a desire to more deeply understand the "differences in culture" yet refuse to eat your feedback. This from a woman who has made no effort to learn the language (which would be a nice gesture no matter where in the world you're living), who harbors prejudice against people living in her own country (apropos your comment about people who come from the north), and who clearly posted that garbled mess of cyberdiarrhea in a desparate hope to obtain confirmation of illogical paranoia.

Cheers to the Brits for not doing too much general Ami-blasting. You're all too kind!

For fuck's sake. He's German. Just because he's got U.S citizenship doesn't make him change his culture, similar to the way that, from a reverse perspective, you being American appears in this case to make you a complete twat. Horses for courses.

Ah this reminds me of a problem I had a little while ago. Now I have this American Woman who I have been dating for some time now. I know, I know, I should have listened to The Guess Who, but I am young and naive. Anyway we have been seeing each other for some time now maybe three years or so I'm not exactly sure however she is now gradually moving in with me and due to this she has gradually moved back to germany. I am completely in favor of this because I'm tired of flying, I just couldn't get used to the airplane food.

Anyway because she's American and I come from Cana.. a island in the atlantic close to Greenland, we have many cultural misunderstandings. I like this shirt, she thinks it looks crap. I eat meat and she's a vegetarian. She likes the color pink, I don't, the list is endless. Anyway we came to one of our biggest cultural misunderstanding points the other night. I came in exhausted getting ready for bed I left my socks on the floor. Now I tried to convince her that this was ok and part of my island culture, but she just wasn't excepting of my culture. So anyway we had a fight about this and we ended up putting a clothes hamper in the bedroom. The clothes hamper was in a neutral color that offended neither of our cultures. We reached this solution after many a long week of group therapy.

Now however a friend of hers is coming to visit tomorrow do you think I should try and preempt any cultural clashes by suggesting that we play nude darts, or playing on the trampoline for that matter, this being not being part of either of our cultures we could bond in our mutual uncomfortableness and thereby be much closer as a result. Is this a good idea? I don't want the person to feel alone in their uncomfortableness.

Funny, I´m American, but it was my British boyfriend who had a problem with my leaving socks/underwear on the bedroom floor overnight. Don´t blame it on her nationality!

Maybe you should err on the side of safety -- dress from head to toe in several layers in beige, when you meet the friends, bow, give them five, shake their hands, and kiss their cheeks. Oh, and then their feet. That way, you should have all your bases covered. If they look taken aback, THEN move onto plan B of swinging naked trampoline jumping with jello and next of kin...

Curious22. Please come to Munich. Please! Join the dart throwing in the Irish Pub.
You'll have a great time! The patrons will too!
You will be congratulated on EVERYTHING you do.
Germany is a great place to start nude darts and then go over to the working mens' clubs
in England. You'll be a hit!
Oh yes! Congratulations on starting this thread. You're really great!

but do I kiss the cheeks twice or thrice?

Depends on the cheeks!

Oh ouch how my feelings are hurt, lol.

First, I'm still with my boyfriend - and making up is such SWEET success...

Second, to all of you whom are now in a total uproar - you can kiss BOTH cheeks (on my "arse" of course) because it seems perfectly ok (or should we say "normal" for you to poke fun, but God forbid someone poke back. I thought you Germans (and Americans for that matter) were a little thicker skinned from your previous posts.

(Here's the part where I'd apologize if I were sorry, but I'm not so I won't).

To you sweet victims who sought to bring compassion to my breaking heart, you seemed pretty two-sided - of course I can accept honesty - that's the point of asking strangers. Your honesty isn't a problem and I'm well aware of my weaknesses which are not NEAR as extreme as you like to think, but my SO loves me - and my weaknesses - anyway.

Are you in touch with your weaknesses? Do you know where they lie? Hopefully, I can be of as much help as you've been to me...not sure, but I'll take a shot at it. Maybe I should leave that to the "support group" here on TT...or perhaps "another" site where people are a bit kinder and gentler. Awwww what the hell, I've come this far...I'll give it a try too! I think the fact that you took advice from this TT crowd and actually let your boyfriend go (for spoiling his daughter of all things) says a lot about "Motor City Madness" and I hope you've since learned (with the help of TT of course), that yes, men EVERYWHERE spoil their baby girls -and always will - their entire lives. There's a little bit of "asshole" in every nice guy just as there is a little bit of bitch in every nice woman so saying he was a "jerk" anyway doesn't really justify the means. Do you really think he waited around for you to "reveal your vulnerability" to him just so he could say "nanana na na na I knew you loved me!" & leave??? Don't flatter yourself. The fact that you took advice from a group of people whom are obviously single and/or lonely and have probably been on the receiving end of "walking papers" recently (earning themselves the title of "EX" as well) has now afforded you the luxury to sit around and live vicariously through others' so you can assess the situation and lend "support." Afterall, thanks to your support group, you've lost a good man and can't seem to find a replacement. For that, the world is a much better place and I'm sure you'll continue to make a difference in everyones' lives. I on the other hand, am happier to know that your "ex" German boyfriend has since moved on with his life and further, considers your break up with him (especially due to advice taken from these jackholes) a FAVOR.

Again, assholes are EVERYWHERE and believe it or not, I was aware...but thanks for the "education." I just didn't expect to find so many in one place, lol. Thanks to you all, I'm a bit wiser and consider myself a bit more "educated and worldly" since I now know what an attractive nipple piercing looks like thanks to your pic & "support." Btw, who's mother was that anyway?

Now that we're done (although I have the sneaking suspicion I haven't heard the last of MIGHTY Toytown), I can get on with my "cRaZy" life wis ze big German man an ze next "GovaNata of Cal i FORnia." It's been fun, but I really suggest you guys seriously get out of the "haben" more often (but that doesn't include slamming pint after pint to forget why you're single in the first place)...good luck "misch lieblings," I will miss the entertainment!

ouch, you really should have refrained from attempting anything German-like

Beautiful, there's a happy ending. Congratulations for working it all out.

Just out of curiousity, how did you resolve it?

Did you discuss any further sexual adventures with him, or did he agree to toe the more conservative line? Or did you just laugh it all of and decide to pick up were you left off?

Well, that was predictable... I have worked with children afterall.

You should really work on your transparency issues ...

I think its rather funny that you keep coming back.. If things were so great with your boyfriend, then why bother? Thought you were busy? You said yourself, isnt TT a bit pathetic? Hey, your words...

Failed in looking for a replacement for my boyfriend? Well, with a bit of time, maturity, and a good amount of self-worth, you will see that it is not so important to have a man in you life at all times. It has only been a month.. Im not that desperate. I suppose a good definition of desperate would be... moving in immediately with a man and claiming he is my husband.. or perhaps a good example of insecurity would be stipping down to get attention... just a thought...

Truly, instead of making up stories, perhaps concentrate on how to be a better person.. to yourself and your boyfriend...

We all learn lessons in life.. evolve.. and hopefully change for the better. No one is born perfect... Yes Curious, not even you...

Best of luck to you.

Well, what better way to close this thread than with a video finale.

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/75124/naked_darts/

Thank you - see comment at metacafe:

Honey, the word you were looking for is stooge

curious...just end it now... you somehow manage to sound more and more pathetic with each of your posts. O and people give attention to your post because it is actually quite entertaining... its like watching a cheesy soap on German television.

except much funnier. I would watch this over Marienhof any day.

Next week: boyfriend and neice challenge curious and her mother to a naked lime jello wrestling match.

You're right...on "haben" - what I meant was "house." However, my spelling may be off as it is not my native tongue, but you got the message otherwise. I see you're from Munich - sorry my "high" German is off as I'm sure you think British English is actually English since that's all you've been taught. I hope you learned better etiquette regarding eating and table manners (& didn't take that from the Brits).

Ahhh Blum, you silly girl, of course you've worked with children (although I don't consider you ex's daughter to be very fair - not to yourself, the daughter, or that now free German man), but whatever gets you through.

As far a TT, I will now unsubscribe as I continue to get reply notifications from people who can't seem to keep themselves away from "cRaZy" people like me - namely, just you and a few other members of the lonely hearts club. Apparently my words hit home as you felt the need to take time out & reply (and provide a nice video). That was cute...you know the funny part is that although I've never worn a "tutu" (or however you spell it for you grammatically correct Germans - or Brits for that matter) - I have taken ballet, lol. Oh, & my boobies look like the 3rd girl's, lol.

I'm not transparent in the least as again, you don't know me and further, never will. However, you seem to have me lying comfortably on your imaginary couch. The only thing you DID know was that I'd reply (afterall, I am only just a woman whom enjoys a good cat fight just as much as the next) - hardly makes me transparent dear. If you want to keep your license - if in fact you're licensed in anything other than "boobie" patrol - (but you should leave that to an expert like myself), it would behoove you to avoid such snap judgements on anyone - that includes future boyfriends OR their daughters) as you're cleary not qualified. Again, I would apologize if I were in the least bit sorry for offending your support group at TT, but again, I'm just not. So, in the future, (that is if you don't want to lose another good man) and DO want to regain your life back - I'd suggest you grab a six pack of Bud and a telephone (if you absolutely can't help yourself) for support, rather than jacking around with anyone here.

You seem to have a halfway decent head on your shoulders (although - and I'm SURE you can vouch for me - I COULD be wrong), but I think you could over analyze your future without anyone's help at all. Maybe there is still time if you haven't alienated your friends or family just yet. Thus, perhaps you could get an opinion that would be positive and in your best interest next time from someone who actually knows the mysterious "blum." Hey, I know I'm crazy, but just a thought. Oh & just to be fair, I want you to know that I have spent plenty of time getting to know (and love) myself. Having said that, I've never - and I mean NEVER, have felt like I've needed a man for anything. Of course they are nice for plenty of things, but not a thing I couldn't provide for myself. Being single is something no woman (or man) could ever "fault" you for - in fact, you should enjoy your time as it probably won't last (unless of course you continue spending too much time here) - but next time a good man comes along - German or American, or Japanese for that matter, please don't let him go because your insecurities led you to a site where no one gives a fuck about you or your feelings. I have insecurities like everyone else - however, believe it or not, they are not nearly as bad as they seem. In fact, I'm not even a jealous woman. It was another woman/girl's insecurity that led me here in the first place - I just didn't like the way my boyfriend (whom named me his wife to begin with) handled it...but hey, that's his family and I accept that. Next time, I hope you can do the same.

I do know he & I have different perceptions of that visit, doesn't make his right & doesn't make mine wrong. I do know that regardless of what was going through HER mind, I know what WASN'T going through his & in the end, that's really all that matters to me. I know I've been catty to you here (and everyone else), but again - I was just poking back & I sincerely wish you a very bright future.

Yeah, you're right...it should be much funnier considering all you Germans have to watch on TV is left over shit (like Baywatch) that doesn't even air here anymore.

Too bad ze Germans can't come up with their own comedy & need to borrow American entertainment for pleasure. Let's face it, I'd tire rather quickly of panty hose, blood sausage, folk songs, & hot beer too. You should move.

Oh Dear me!.
So this is the picture of Germany your obviously dimwit boyfriend has given you. Birds of a feather really do flock together!
As to your comments about British manners - Check out Michael Moore's comments on America or take a look at the film Borat.
Your English - well, I'd put you somewhere between Intermediate and Upper Intermediate. You maybe able to converse but you haven't
grasped written English yet. Languages don't seem to be your forte, do they?
Try not to come over to Europe, we have a problem sharing our air with people like you.
Otherwise, have another nice mammary oriented day!

The flounce.


The inevitable return of the great shite post.


8 minutes door-to-door. Not bad.

Keydeck gets it wrong.

That was the Flounce III. I could have missed one, my stomach isn't strong this morn'.

Curious, ignore the trolls and flames. It's just a chatboard on the Internet.


What did he actually tell you? I'm glad that you guys were able to work it out. How did you resolve it?

Maybe some people can learn from your experience.