In 2012 you too can fly into space, for €200k

Firm rockets into space tourism


I predict there's gonna be lots of work available in Toulouse.

I predict there's gonna be lots delays.

It's more likely to be 2020 than 2012. Five years is not a long time in aerospace/space.

They should focus on getting the A380 into production and finding clients. Also applies to the A350XWB...

Well, at least the A380 bits all fit together unlike a certain other new plane project . . . .

Absoultely. There's a lot of people hanging around waiting for the A350 to start. Its a bit more urgent than a tourist attraction.

At least the other manufacturer has sufficient orders to justify such a substantial private capital investment. They haven't the option of not paying back loans.

I think that 2012 is very easy to make. They're only going sub-orbital, and not orbital. If the goal was orbital I would say 2020.

I'll wait with baited breath for the launch before 31st Dec 2012. This is the same timescale as a car launch so it will be amazing!!!

The hardest part will be designing and building the vehicle/cabin, and mating it to a (i.e. an existing) launch vehicle. Just gotta use one with the right payload capacity.

Oh jeez, where do I start? For one, SpaceShipTwo will beat this to the punch by a long, long time. If you've got the money that's the ticket to buy in advance. SpaceShipOne (SSO) has already flown successfully (three years ago!) and SpaceShipTwo - the commercial vehicle based on SSO - starts flight testing this year! This project has barely left the EADS press artists' drafting table.


God I hope not. EADS' flying vehicle contribution to the ISS is the ATV (Automated Transfer Vehicle). For several years I was assigned to work the operational interfaces between the American and Russian Guidance Navigation & Control (GNC) systems and ATV GNC systems. As such, I know the vehicle very, very well and the rendezvous and docking portion of the mission better than all but a few people.

My opinion, one that I share with colleagues from Houston to Moscow, is that the ATV is bar-none the biggest pile of shit ever meant to top a rocket. Roscosmos and NASA are very afraid of it and for good reason; it's not just likely to fail spectacularly by itself, it's also a hugely dangerous to the ISS and the crew.

There is every reason to be weary of this; EADS just doesn't have the experience and they're further burdened by being big and slow like mega-aerospace companies tend to be. This proposed vehicle is the realm of the small and limber like Scaled, SpaceX, etc. (note that projected cost is 1B Euros. SSO was built and flown for $40M).


2020 is closer to never than 2012 is so you're on the right track.


I'll give you 20:1 odds against.


The hardest part is every part. The design on the board isn't supposed to mate to an existing launch vehicle, it's a new launch vehicle unto itself. The concept is wholly untested. Don't get me wrong, it's not a bad idea per se, but from drawing board to flight in 5 years with a system that's never been tried before? Unlikely.

I love this space stuff - I dig it so much I made it my career. I'm especially keen on the privatization of human space-flight and ultimately plan on leaving government manned-space work for the (now-embryonic) private field. I have to give kudos to them for at least entertaining the idea, but my professional opinion is that EADS/Astrium isn't up the challenge in the next 15 years let alone the next 5.

I'd like to take this opportunity to poo-poo NASA as a bunch of total arrogant wankers with square haircuts and dodgy seals/tiles. There, I've said it now and I feel much better for it. However, if you want a really spectacular fireball in the sky, I can highly recommend them.

@DW, bog off mate. Astrium and me... we're like THAT. You won't hear from me all next week on account I'll be standing beside the Herschel mock-up at a show.

Beryllium!?!?! *Shakes head*

Do whatever it takes to make you feel better but it doesn't change the truth about what I said.


In order to succeed, and fail, you actually have to DO. Where's that EADS-Astrium man rated launch vehicle again? It's like chastising Kubica for crashing an F1 having never been behind the wheel of a so much as a bobby car yourself. The Ariane 5 (updated) is a good vehicle but it's not man rated and in the world of man spaceflight that's kinda the point.


If you're trying to impress me it's not gonna work. I don't deal with mock-ups, I fly the real thing . But anyway, Herschel is cool and exactly what EADS/ESA should be doing right now so good on that.

I have to agree with all of the above, aerospace brand new programs take a hell of a lot longer in multinational conglomerates than in the private sector, just allocating workshare generally takes years !

If the Rutans can do it with SpaceShipOne for less than $20 million, why couldn't EADS do it? Surely EADS has more resources...

Also, there's no need to re-invent the wheel when it comes to a launch vehicle. I don't see that it should be that difficult, from a technical perspective. (But, if bureaucracy gets in the way, perhaps it could take longer.)

Err... I deal with optics, man, and they're going up all the time.


I'll have you know that I have actually, really, honestly and truthfully driven 3 F1 cars, sadly only one at pace, a Jordan Hart V10 193, a Minardi Ford M193 and an AGS Ford JH24. It isn't the acceleration that gets you... it's the hanging in the seatbelts braking while your head and helmet want to keep going full-pelt. Gives you a bloody headache after half an hour.


Well... we can't exactly show the real thing at an exhibition. Imagine the clean-room logistics. It is 3.5m diameter, fer fux sake. Besides, it is being covered in chocolate wrappers at the moment and they wouldn't let it out of Toulouse even if I asked for it.

Exactly. International cooperation on aerospace projects is a massive pain in the ass and arguably not worth the cost if you can go it alone.


Money is a fantastic motivator. EADS/Boeing etc. can spend assloads of cash on government projects because they know they'll get bailed out and forgiven if it's over budget and overdue. The smaller privately held companies have to sink or swim. Plenty have already failed.

There are some companies who are going with the tried and trued method of chemical rockets launched from the ground in stages. SpaceX seems to be the early leader with that philosophy but they're still a long ways off. The airplane based designs are all largely new in concept and execution. In the near term, I think airplane-based designs like the SpaceShipTwo (or even the EADS-Astrium like design) are the way to go for suborbital flight. Once you want to go orbital it's harder to discern what's the better way up.

So BD can we book any freebies from you?

This just doesn't seem to be my cup of tea.

If we fast forward to 2012 and this thing is flying and I have €10M kicking around in the bank - am I gonna spunk €200k on this fairground ride? I can't see it really. But I guess I don't have "the bug". I reckon a trip through an amazonian jungle or to the bottom of the ocean would be more interesting.

The weird thing for me about space is...there is fuck all there. It's just a big old vacuum mostly. Even getting to the moon is a total drama - and when you arrive it is a dusty rock with less life than yer average desert.

Maybe it is like religion? You either get it or you dont.

Don't think i'm quite in that pecking order mate.

Well, I have to admit that I know a few technically advanced bordello programs in which I'd rather blow (if you'll excuse the expression) €200K in the scientific study of if my heart could cope with the strain of it all. I like the technology, sure. But, €200K could bring you way, way more fun in other ways. Now if it was €200K to fly into space AND pork a whole bunch of young ladies (of my choosing) to analyse the effects of weightlessness during copulation, then if I had said 10 Mil in the old bank, I'd have to give it serious consideration.

Gotta bear in mind the law of diminishing marginal utilities. By the time you have got to the €10M level you have probably had your fair share of most things. So driving an F1 round a track is not gonna be such a thrill after you have done it a dozen times.

That is the theoretical appeal of this trip - rarity and bragging rights. You could replicate the physical and visual experience very well on earth. But like throwing your Ferrari keyrings onto the bar, I guess some people wanna say "Actually you can't see the Great Wall of China from space 'cos just last week...zzzzzzzzzzzzzz".

The thought of being strapped into a plane that goes nowhere other than up, and then straight down, with theoretical chance of death, and major seasickness. Hmmmmmmmm. Not convinced personally. But then I don't enjoy rollercoasters either. I started getting seasick crossing the Bodensee on a ferry last week.