Land Rover and Jaguar - both companies for sale

just thought I would like to start this discussion, would any of the German companies be interested in buying and asset stripping etc.. ?? Does Ford think the SUV sector is doomed in the long-run? I'm sure there are plenty of people here who have worked with these companies and what are your opinions of their 'value' ?

No, I don't think so. VAG don't want a luxury brand (they have Audi). Merc and BMW won't be interested either. All 3 companies also have credible 4x4s so I don't think Landrover would be that appealing either, so no, I don't think they offer value to German car companies. I wouldn't be surprised if private equity were interested though.

Saw this on the news this morning and they appeared to be suggesting that Jaguar is the actual problem and that packaging it together with Land Rover was the sweetener rather than feeling that SUV's are the problem.

Well as Land Rover used to belong to BMW, I don't think they would be interested and all the others already make similar vehicules, so I can't see it, unless they just want to shut them down!

Let's hope BMW stay as far away from Land Rover as possible. We all know how they stuffed up the brand when they got their designers and grease monkeys involved with the Freelander. We bought one and gave it back after two weeks, because the traction control, gearbox and rear window mechanism broke in that time! My Solihull 1965 Series 2A SWB still runs like a dream, without so much as a hint of an oil leak, so hopefully LR stays British.

I worked for Jaguar and as the things were engineered using poor quality engines mainly from american Fords the engines used to pack up for a past time, certainly in Germany, Jaguar is a loss making concern, fine for going down the motorway at up to 100MPH but not the Autobahn at 240 KMH.

As there is still so much BMW technology in the new Land Rovers and the old "New Range Rover" is in fact what would have been the X5 if BMW hadn't have sold Land Rover off, I don't see why they wouldn't be interested. Once bitten twice shy and therefore can't see BMW investors allowing such a transaction to take place but it's by no means unfeasible, especially as the troubled part of the concern Rover has gone down the tubes now.

I'd be worried if I was involved with Jaguar or Land Rover now not to mention Aston Martin, although they've less to worry about as the cars sell for silly money and there's only a very small workforce to keep and it's not worth selling.

Land Rover workers being in a better position as their products are constantly in demand all over the world, and Jaguar find themsewves in a similar position to Porsche were in a few years back when it looked like the company would fold as there was no money left over for sports cars after the recession of the 90's.

Ford did Jaguar a great turn, and with investment they turned out great models like the XJ308 and the XK, but then the parent company started to make heavy losses, noticed that Jaguar was not too healthy either and cut funding to Jaguar.
The result being Jaguar producing "tarted up" Fords, destroying all the image repair and improvement of the previous 12-15 years. They'll find it hard to sell Jaguar off for a sensible amount now that vehicles are far less desirable and in light of new emission standards like Euro 5, it'll be nigh on impossible to attain with 4 L V8 engines, which is the next problem needing investment.

There was a rumour that was about to happen a few months back now, which was of course denied, I knew it had to come as Ford worldwide are loosing money hand over fist and what do you do first when your in business, get rid of loss making parts of the business and sell off non vital healthy parts of the concern to stay liquid and stay afloat, so it had to come sooner or later I did think however that Aston might go too.

I think you'll find that BMW designers had very little to do with the actual design of the Freelander. Production Engineers did a hell of a lot to improve production quality at the Solihull plant, though.

Not true, the Range Rover was designed by BMW, but as a Range Rover. The X5 was designed as a completely separate car.

EDIT: Owen is right, it was introduced about 2 years after BMW bought Rover, nowhere near enough time to design and develop a new vehicle.

They sold Aston Marin already, last year to Private Equity

Exactly, it isn't an X5 but it is a BMW, you notice that from the minute you get into the drivers seat, it's nothing like any Land Rover that I've ever driven and my point was that BMW probably wouldn't have bothered to keep two vehicles in the same segment, they'd have looked to see which one made money and stopped production of the other but the Rover Group was such a disaster for them they just decided to sell it all off except astutely enough MINI.

They did that quietly, how's that doing now then?

I see that was yesterday and if Dave Richards is involved then it'll turn out alright me thinks

sorry I thoug this thread was about some rich sod selling both his 4WD and his old Jag. Time to check out.

Allershausen is correct on the Range Rover. separate development entirely althought the Range did use BMW components (the engines for example). BMW introduced the concept of using a unibody (or monocoque) for the Range, whereas the two previous generations used a separate chassis, something that was thougt of as core to the product by true blue Landie engineers. Quite a bit of Land Rover technologie was assimilated by BMW engineers and has influenced X3/5 technologie.

You simply have to look at the timing of the launch of the BMW designed Range Rover (3rd generation). It was launched in 2002. BMW sold off Land Rover in 2000. The vehicle was designed as a Range from the conception. It had nothign to do with the X5.

I remember when BMW announced the first generation X5 and the fuss it caused amongst many execs at Rover but once they'd seen the product the fuss was over. Back then the second generation Range and the first generation X5 were very different beasts with different USPs. I admit that with the third generation Range and second generation X5, they have moved much closer together though.

Oh, and btw, I worked for the Rover Group at the time of BMW ownership so I do have first hand knowledge of the product developments that went on.

yesterday? I though it happened back in March. oh well, not important.

I wonder if the purchase of Aston Martin is in any way connected to Prodrive's new F1 team as from 2008? Aston Martin F1 team?

well I just read on the BBC UK business section that it went through yesterday, I hope that it's not linked to Prodrive's F1 plans, look what happened to the Jaguar team

Jaguar are an example of how not to do it. McLaren Mercedes is an example of how to do it. BMW might end up being another Jaguar if they aren't careful. With the correct resources and drivers, it might work.

edit:

in an article from 13th March the new owners rule this out:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport...one/6443609.stm

Resources are not enough though as Toyota have proved, and come to that Ford/Jaguar, I met a Polish bloke that worked for the Formula 1 Toyota gearbox dept. and he said that the whole setup was a disaster, seems he was right. Look at Honda, biggest engine manufacturer in the world, poorest team in F1 well almost, couldn't even get off the grid on Sunday

Ford have to jettison JAG/LRV becuase the company is close to meltdown. They want to return to mass produced good reliable cars and SUV's. They bought Aston Martin/JAG/LRV because they wanted a 'finger in the pie' of all motor sectors. It obviously didn't work, now they have to flog it or go bust. They sold Aston Martin this year, and now they need to sell JAG/LRV. They cannot split the two individually because the supplychain/soured parts are too closely interrelated, JAG is losing money heavily while LRV is actually making money. Ford will probably sell it to a asset stripping company who will break them up and sell them on tothe Chinese/Japanese. I hope my job won't be under threat as where I work at Halewood we are the most efficient Ford PAG plant in Europe...but as with the automotive business, a lot changes in a short amount of time, you stay ahead of your rivals or you go to the wall.

The trouble with this strategy being that Ford wanted to kill two birds with one stone when acquiring Jaguar, also not having to develop a top of their range vehicle i.e Granada/Scorpio and have a prestiege or "Premier" brand too. BTW I love Fords and have a Mk II RS 2000 (as well as a Fiesta Zetec (MkV) but Ford have never stood for reliability, if one model didn't break down it would rust and if a model didn't rust it would break down, it's always been the same I worked for Ford as a mechanic too so I know what trouble they have.

So the money that Ford get from the sale of LR and Jaguar will have to be invested in a new top of the range Ford, unless after all the rumours Volvo won't be sold off too!
Isn't Halewood where the X-Type is made? I saw a video from Ford where the legendary halls of Escort production were ripped apart to fit a modern production line.
If Ford can't find a buyer they'll just close it down, I hope very much for you and Jag's sake they don't do that but Ford just don't care ask the Vauxhall boys, they had a very productive plant and one of the newest painting shops in Europe. Worrying times if you're involved with Ford, I'm out of it myself. As Ford Germany/Europe stopped giving the boss of the group I worked for money the group sold off loads of sites and closed the Jaguar side of the operation down and I got the boot!

That's life!

Well it's official, Jaguar and Land Rover have been sold to Indian compny TATA.

TATA are the company that make that silly looking stupid car for about € 2000 brand new.Also what i have heard is that the new company has to use Ford Engines for the Jags and landrovers but like i wrote i only heard this.