I Ching - The Book of Changes

A while back ago I started casting I Ching as part of my personal and guided study of Taoism. While I do not believe in divination in the convential Western understanding of such, I do subscribe to the theory advanced in Determinism...that being, "if one could observe all that has ever happened in the universe, one could predict all that would ever happen".

The point of casting I ching is not to "tell the future" but rather to get a deeper understanding of the present reality and possible outcomes by tapping our subconscious awareness.

The I Ching is supposedly the oldest transcript in existance. It means "Book of Changes". Although it can not be proven I Ching is the oldest book in the history of humanity, there is reasonable evidence that it antedates at least Homer and the Pentateuch. Respect for the I Ching has endured throughout its history: it was a pillar of Taoism; an inspiration for Chinese Ch'eng and Mahayana Buddhism; the I Ching is the ONLY book known to have been saved from the notorious "burning of the books" ordered by Emperor Shih Huang Ti some 2000 years ago; only the Bible, Koran, and Vedas can claim an influence on par with that of the I Ching.

In 1697, a French Jesuit missionary in China, Joachim Bouvet, introduced the I Ching to German mathematician and philosopher, Gottfried Wilhelm von Leibnitz, who was amazed by the Book of Changes and its use of binary arithmetic, then unknown in Europe. Leibnitz spread the good word, and thus our civilization was first introduced to binary arithmetic, which is not only the cornerstone of the Book of Changes but as most people know, the language of all modern computers. Leibnitz was not the only great mind fascinated with the I Ching. Foremost among those who extolled its merit was no doubt psychologist Carl C. Jung, who saw in the Book of Changes the most perfect illustration of his own Theory of Archetypes and referred to the I Ching as "the most profound book ever to come from the East."

Science and psychiatry have both worked to build bridges between the conscious and subconscious..this is one of the purposes of NLP for instance. As well as Biofeedback and Free Association Speech.

On a practical day to day level, I use I ching as a tool to help clarify a situation that I find confusing. I have been keeping records of my progress. Some of the "outcomes" and readings have been nothing less than incredibly accurate. I am not talking about "hocus pocus" fortune telling. Again, first and foremost the I Ching is a book of wisdom.

Does anyone else here have experience with I Ching?

Yes, I can confirm your findings. I also found an online site that seems to have a pretty good algorythm to duplicate the casting of I ching:

http://flytrapinteractive.com/~complimentary/iching/

and for quick explanations on:

http://deoxy.org/iching

When I was 20 I read this book, but that's so long ago that I don't remember much. Will read it again.

considering the importance of the principle of synchronicity in I ching, advanced online programs can be just as accurate if not better for casting.
The Criteria for Interactive I Ching casting are mathematical authenticity, energetic authenticity and experiential authenticity. I use Visionary Networks program that AOL licensed, it works so well that I have been sticking to it. Although I cast at home with coins as well. Here is their brief explaination of the importance of synchronicity

Incidently MB I asked about the "purpose" of your Innerlizard. The responding Hexagram was Hex 25 with changing lines:

Innocence is one translation of Hex 25 but to further explain it:

Innocence implies a natural harmlessness, openness and pure intentions which are unsullied by ulterior motives. The state of innocence has less to do with age than attitude; innocence springs from a heart which remains open to joy and wonder. Innocence, when guided by a firm faith in what is right, brings supreme success. Naivete unanchored by an ability to discern right from wrong, on the other hand, brings misfortune.

The hallmark of innocence is a willingness to treat all creatures with compassion and respect.

Those who possess a pure heart are best guided by their instincts and intuition. Thinking too much severs links with the guidance of the heart: namely, a clear intuition and strong guiding instincts. Be wary of courses of action which require too much cleverness.

*I added the italics..thought that was most interesting regarding Mr. or Ms. Lizard

Not to make light, but I am the Lizard King...cha-ching. Sorry, couldn't resist. I must follow my inner child lizard.

Hey Lizard King, the way of the Tao is all light and all right. Afterall Dear King, it's Spring..time for the cha cha ching

*sorry this belongs in the abysmal poetry section

I have heard some people talking about the I Ching, but never used it myself. I've seen people using it by flipping coins. I found it kind of strange that in Confucianism it is not easy to know what the best decision in a situation might be (it totally depends on the context), whereas we in the Western world see it as part of our individuation (you learn from wrong decisions and make it better next time, decisions do not entirely depend on the context).

I also read about it years ago.

Didnt Syd Barret sing about it on Chapter 24 in Piper at the Gates of Dawn?

I'm another one who read about it years ago - more than 20 years ago, in fact. I never actually tried using it for divination, but I'm intrigued by the idea - which I've also heard elsewhere - that using the I Ching taps the subconscious, and helps to solve problems by guiding you to solutions that you might otherwise not have discovered. Thanks, Saint, for bringing up this topic - I'll try to find some time to look at the I Ching again.

Interesting, too, that Leibniz was fascinated by the I Ching. I studied a bit of the history of mathematics once, but I don't remember reading about that. Now that's made me want to get my history of maths books out again. Can the I Ching help me to organise my time better, so I can find the time for all the reading I'd like to do?

Frau 'Tea: Havent your lot just discovered a planet out of our solar system?

*Heads to get book of I Ching from bookshelf to take another look after not looking at it for about 9 years*

It's the same in Taoism. There is a Chinese parable of the old man and his son to explain it:

There once lived an old man and his son of late years on the outskirts of a village. His wife had died having their only child very late in life.
They had only one horse.

Late one night some thieves came through the village and stole the horse belonging to the old man and his son.
Upon discovering what had happened their neighbors came by and said, "oh, this is bad! very bad!"

The old man just replied, "Bad, How do you know?"

Determined by the belief that his beloved horse would escape the thieves and find it's way back home, the son left the gate of the stables open every night with carrots and apples out to entice his horse back.

After a week, the old man and his son heard noises in the stable late into the night and went to investigate. They found six wild horses who had wandered upon their land, found the food left for the stolen horse and were eating. Quickly locking the gate, the young son proclaimed "look, now we have good fortune!"

The old man just replied "good? How do you know?"

Weeks later the son was breaking one of the horses when it threw him from it's back and he broke his leg.

Their neighbors came by to help and said, "oh this is so bad. You will have no one to work the fields for you now, until he heals! this is just so bad!'"

The old man, looked at them perplexed and said once more, "how do you know?!"

The very next day, an army came through all of the villages of that region including the village of the old man and his son. The took with force all boys over 12..as the families looked on knowing that most if not all, would never return. All went except the old man's son, due to his broken leg.

So in any chain of events, how do you know, really, what's "good" or "bad"?

A nice tale... I should remember that as I often lament I have incredibly bad luck and break things a lot. Could just be bad karma though.

I just asked the I Ching what I should do to lose weight and the answer ( 45. Ts'ui / Gathering Together [Massing]) wasn`t helpful...I think. I need to read it again and ponder...

Renia, the way you form your question is most important. Instead of asking what you should do to lose weight, try asking "what is blocking or keeping me from losing the weight I want to"

Take the time before casting to visualize yourself, and the situation. Perhaps visualize yourself on the various diets you have tried, standing on a scale etc.. Then hold the question in your mind.

Once you get that answer, you could ask a furthering question like, "what should I best focus on or develop in order to change this situation?"

hey, and doesn't Weight Watchers have "gathering together" meetings?

edit: Renia, I just asked for you (although you should get the most accurate answer) I asked what is holding you back or keeping you from.;

and got Hex 16 Enthusiasm (could mean lack of enthusiasm as well)


so maybe gathering together, joining a group is really the best?

To further explain that Hex 16, Renia:


In Hexagram 16 there is both excitement and planning involved in a feedback process but always about what COULD be. Thus the common ground analogy served to represent something that will elicit what 16 covers - enthusiasm (with others and within)and planning.

And your Hex 45 that you got is not just about physical gathering together of people. It is a very spiritual Hex referring to spiritual connection. With Hex 45 the response is not as much a question about "best approach" within a gathering as being outter action, but more as inner attitude.

Thanks for that. I can see how the way the question is phrased is important. I also didn´t do any visualisation... The idea of casting with coins (and don´t they also use sticks traditionally ?) intrigues me. I like the hands-on approach.

I know some friends who do these kind of casting, in many case, it's reported 80-90% of the info is right. I tried it once before, I cast, and one of my friends read and interpret(I think the interpretation is the most important part, if the reader has a low level, the info which got interpreted would got influcned)
Anyway, casting is just the tip of the whole iceberg (I Ching).

Since someone mentioned Confuciansim and Taoism, pls allow me to say something not related here:
In Confuciansim, things are divided between 'Good' and 'bad'. But for Taosim, making such a distinction is unwise.
Before people were taught the idea of ‘beauty’, they were contented with what they had, but after being imparterd the idea of beauty and ugliness, they felt bothered by ‘ugliness’; before people were clear about the idea of riches, they live their peaceful lives, but after they learn to, their hearts are filled by lots of desires, and eager to get rid of their ‘poorness’. Actually, Taoism considers ‘good’ and ‘bad’ are not two separate entities, but the two manifestations of one single entity. Putting one manifestation as ‘good’ and the other one as ‘bad’ , said Taoism, is what leads to an unbalanced life and what stirs anxiety and creates a mess in the world.

Can you explain this? Is this part of a story or something?

Don't go there, Marshbot. the next thing you know is that somebody will introduce you to "The Tao of The Time Before Toiletpaper"

ah, so we are getting into Taoism a bit..natural progression when contemplating the I Ching. The Yang is unstoppable the Ying, receptive but unmovable. So what happens when an unstoppable (irresistable) object hits an unmovable object?
don't think one-dimensionally...

An example of this paradox in non-western thought can be found in the origin of the Chinese word for paradox (Chinese Hanyu Pinyin: máodùn; literally "Spear-Shield"). This term originates from a story in the 3rd century BC philosophical book Han Feizi.In the story, a man was trying to sell a spear and a shield. When asked how good his spear was, he said that his spear could pierce any shield. Then, when asked how good his shield was, he said that it could defend from all spear attacks. Then one person asked him what would happen if he were to take his spear to strike his shield; the seller could not answer. This led to the idiom of "zìxīang máodùn" or "self-contradictory".

Ah you clever MB! Yeah, between the Yin and the Yang, the conscious and the subconscious, matter and anti-matter is the... I Ching?

Or if something unstoppable exist then there can not exist something unmovable. Both can not exist simultaneously if thinking one-dimensionally. But what of Jungs collective unconsciousness? Or quantum entanglment? Those (being the same thing) postulate that all is the same and therefore all exist at the same time.. sooo what happens when the unstoppable hits the unmovable?...It simply goes around???

Kevin Kline...hmmm

The most obvious interpretation would be that the guy was simply a typical salesman, and as such it was natural for him to make exaggerated statements...

Seriously, though: I don't quite understand what "unstoppable" and "unmovable" has to do with Daoism, and why there should be an unsolvable contradiction between Yin and Yang. Not that I know too much about Daosim in the first place...

It's simply a paradoxical question (although not a paradox when considered from the above mentioned perspective), related to the nature of Yin and Yang..two very important elements of nature in Taoism. And as MB pointed out, the answer is somewhere in the middle..which also relates to the I ching.

MB knows shit, honey.

This is from Tao Te Ching (dao de jing).


The Yang is unstoppable, the Yingreceptive but unmovable,
May I know where this is from? From I Ching, or somewhere else?

About the question, what will happen? Well, maybe... Yang enters Yin (not be stopped), and Yin accepts Ying(not be moved), and they combine to one complete part --a new ‘world’--if world is only divided into the two elements.

To me, Yin and yang, the ‘couple’ is different from the ‘Spear-Shield’, relationship of the former is not completely contradictory, Yin and Yang are sort of part of each other, and they need each other to reach a balance. About the latter, their goal is just destroying each other. So when spear and shield meet, only one can survive. But this does not apply for Yin and Yang. So, in my opinion, at first place, we shouldn’t put Yin and Yang on opposite places/position.

It’s amazing, as a foreigner, you read so many Chinese stuff, compared to you, my knowlege about west is very little(shame). Even about I Ching, I quickly stopped reading it after a few pages, because it makes me headache.

As I continue to use the I Ching (which gave me better advice about a situation in my life than a bloody therapist) and get astoundlingly accurate answers with depth and clarity (which has on occassion freaked my sister out) ..I just want to talk more about it.

The I-Ching has 64 chapters explaining the Hexagrams and their meanings. Each Hexagram is made up of 6 Lines, so commentaries on each Line are part of the reading. The 64 Hexagrams are the possible situations that might arise from the endless changing of yin and yang. Through this changing, individual Lines may change in value from yin to yang or yang to yin. The Hexagram will then change into another one. In this way there is a ceaseless movement of life from one situation to another. [Why only 64 Hexagrams? Possibly the answer is that the next permutation leads to serious complexity and with the ability of any Hexagram to turn into another, there are plenty of options for finding reality and getting in harmony with the flow of the Tao.

On the surface, mathmatically, the Yi would appear to have 4096 possible answers to any question. There are 64 hexagrams with six changing lines each. However, when an answer from the IC can be a hexagram with no changing lines at all or with any possible combination of the six possible changing lines. I have posted on a mathmatics forum asking for help to compute the total number of possible outcomes for any given question. Needless to say, the numbers are huge.

The Trigrams are symbolic of the 8 primal forces of the universe. The 64 Hexagrams represent all the possible outcomes of these forces interacting with each other. In the I-Ching, the Hexagrams are all the possible themes in how the Tao “moves� and manifests in the larger universe, the human social world and the earthly natural world. The Hexagrams are the underlying matrix of the world of form.
Recently (in the past couple of months) I have asked questions like:

"what is this relationship about?" (concerning a relationship I was having with someone who is married). The answer was immediately, "Hexagram 44 Liason" with no changing lines. That means, there were 4096 possible answers to receive from the YI to that question (if one considers that I got a Hex without changing lines) and I got that one. Hexagram 44 is the most sexual Hexagram. It is about a strong mutual physical attraction that is not destined to last. It is the only hexagram of the 64 that is just about hot sex. Yeah, those Chinese were having hot flings 8000 years ago too event he Taoist monks new that this part of the human experience that needs addressing in the Book of Changes.

As the relationship progressed and got more complicated I asked the same question later and got, "Hexagram 54 with changing lines". Hexagram 54 is called The Marrying Maiden. It is about being in a secondary position and get this: a secondary position to the Head Wife. Remember, the IC was written thousands of years ago when cocubines were taken". The changing lines were extremely accurate but for some privacy sake I won't list them.

That has just been the tip of the iceberg. So far I have caste the IC close to 1000 times and have been keeping journals of the outcomes and research.

To explain a bit more about the philosophy of the I ching:

On the surface the I Ching looks somewhat Confucious, but at it's core, it is pure Tao.


In the Asian world, all of the greatest minds through history have made a study of the I-Ching. Many key decisions in war, business, love, and any other field that requires deep understanding and strategic thinking, have been made based on guidance from the I-Ching. The basic Taoist concepts are the same for the I-Ching, Chinese medicine, Taoist inner cultivation and meditation techniques, Feng Shui (the art of harmonious placement) and martial arts. When a student in any of these fields desires to get to the deepest level of attainment, they all have to finally study the I-Ching.

In the Western world, the I-Ching has only been known and used for about 100 years. Deep study of it has been hampered by limited texts until recently. Those who use the Book credit many “correct� life changing decisions based on it. And although that may be the case, the IC and Tao say there is no "correct" in the Western sense of right or wrong or should and should not.

It has been a doorway for many students of life into deeper levels of conciousness and awareness. It is definately fascinating and enlightening me.