So bad isn't it.

More can be read at the following link
http://www.spiegel.de/international/german...,484035,00.html

Good move with the pepper spray, gave him time to escape. Frigging neo-Nazis.

In the third-to-final paragraph they say that such attacks are a frequent occurence in Germany, especially in the east, but then they lump all the figures together with no breakdown between former east and west. I wouldn't say racial attacks are frequent in Hamburg, for example, but the idea gets out that Germany is plagued by roving gangs of neonazis, and the whole country's reputation suffers for it.

In England you get attacked just for being there, by gangs of teenagers who use the excuse of 'being bored'. The little shits film the attack on their phones and publish the film on the internet. This type of crime even has a name - Happy slapping. You don't have to go far East to find humans acting like neanderthals.

Racist attacks are concentrated in the more regional towns in the east for sure.

There's a little clue in the article to how common racis is in places like Nauen.
The victim wasn't refused entry to the nightclub outside of which he was stabbed for wearing the wrong colour shoes...

The rest of Germany shouldn't be allowed to wash its hands of the situation though most ordinary Germans of course, didn't create the situation.

As I already mentioned before, I am female, white and got attacked in Eastern Germany for speaking English. I realise though that this could have easily happened in the western part too.

There are punks like this everywhere in the world.. on the whole, Germany really has a pretty small percent of them.. I've been to places that are a lot worse.. good that they got caught..

The fact that it's news shows that 1) it's uncommon; and 2) people actually give a shit. You're unlikely to hear about something on this scale in the US or UK except perhaps locally.

woof.

@BadDoggie,

By your last comment shows you don't watch or read the news (local or national) that much in the UK nor are in touch with issues of the nation...but alas you did deliver the line with authority at least...

Stanford sat in London

racially motivated crime is definitely covered in the media here.

I was in East Germany recently, for the second time in my life (when I was growing up, East Germany practically didn't exist and may aswell have been as far away as Africa). The first time was fine, but this last time I encountered a lot of racism myself, and my father even more so... nothing physical, just people shouting out of their cars and feeling superior. I think this is particularly a problem in East Germany or at least smaller towns/villages in East Germany because not that many foreigners ever visited (or still don't) there, also - let's remember it was only 17 years ago that unificatin took place, particularly the older generations still imo often have a very different mentality. They all went from having secure jobs etc (one of the v few benefits of communism imo) to living in the 'real world' not cut off anymore and a) realising its not as great as they imagined and 'b how cut throat it can be. It's not an excuse, but I think that amongst a lack of work etc. etc. etc. amongst all the other reasons, can create an atmosphere in which racism finds it easier to breed.

Au contraire. While I admit -- no, that's not right... While I'm proud that I watch rather little TV, I do read the papers. Broadsheets. I have no use for the tabloids and their fear-mongering attempts to turn any molehill into something slightly steeper in their quest to push more papers.

Racist attacks are common in the UK and US and, unless they're particularly heinous, rarely raise eyebrows. That the fucking Sun will slap up such stories any day they can't get a picture of some politician's, royal's or celeb's normally covered body parts doesn't make it news. In Germany all you have to do to get national attention is to scream "nigger" as you strike a black guy. You can even run away from him after that one punch. It'll be national news.

woof.

just a quick point...is this a racist attack or a xenophobic one? ...did they beat him because he was black, or because he was speaking english?

Good question Pirulero !

Well,

Some 5 yrs back I was attacked by a co passenger, actually I do not know the reason but I can clearly guess he was a racist. We were 3 all males and travelling in a RE on the way back from BodenSee to munich, so this happened in the Bayern. He kicked me on the face while getting down in a remote village stop. Luckily it was not hard, and the other fellow german passengers were shocked and a young German lad immediately responded and pushed him out of the train door. I could not react fast and was also in a shock.

But still I am living here and apart from that incident I did not face any. Any way he was also drunk and I did not bother to carry this issue along.

@BadDoggie,
I respect your intelligence, knowledge and opinion on many subjects but when it comes to the racial atmosphere in the UK...I rather suggest your expertise is not so on the ball regardless of you reading some of our papers here...

1. First you made a distinction between local and national news which applies to the USA and many other countries but sadly doesn’t apply to the UK. In the UK local news, in particular in terms of papers, died out a long time ago. All the national newspapers are based in London. Since the days when the Guardian changed it’s name from the Manchester Guardian (and moved south), there has never been an in depth regional flavor to the UK newspaper market. This means in general in the UK regional news is more focused on good deeds i.e. Schools or Hospital openings rather racial attacks etc.. The exception to that is the Big City Evening Newspapers like Manchester or London Evening News which fall in between the National Newspaper style and the trully local ones.

Can it be that knife crimes don’t get reported (in the National Newspapers) in the UK regardless of the motive of the attacks unless it is a fatal attack because of violent crime levels nothing to do with RACE!!! Or should racial motive attacks make national news when non-racial ones don't!!!

2. “Racist attacks are common in the UK�: Don’t know where you get these figures from and even if you do find figures – do these figures reflect the far more racial aware (i.e. multicultural atmosphere) in the UK……….But if it makes you feel superior to be living in a land where they are “not� common – so be it…..

3. “Don’t Care.� Please BadDoggie, you make a huge value judgment leap there. German care the UK doesn’t. Suffice to say, your expertise is what!!! When people make overly simplistic generalization you are one quick to jump on the band wagon and point out the stupidity but if it’s a positive generalization about Germany it’s okay ….

4. And lastly “In Germany all you have to do to get national attention is to scream "nigger" as you strike a black guy. You can even run away from him after that one punch. It'll be national news.� I was involved in an incident like that it didn’t make national news – can you please explain or are you just exaggerating again!!!

All I can say, is your prejudices are getting the better of you on this one and whilst you may be able to justify them within US society – please leave the UK out of them!!!

Stanford still sitting in London

General Question:

Question for any Germans reading this thread: I read the Suddeutsche and have noticed that crime story tend to report more locally like via the Bayerische part or the Munich section. Whilst in the UK, these same stories would tend to be further up in the main section of the Newspaper (and partly because there aren’t regional sections!). So is it normal for crime (in particular court cases) to be reported via the Regional sections? Just wondered.

General Answer: Do you read the local (Munich) edition of the SZ or the nation-wide one? The local section covers the local crimes, anything big enough to be considered national hits Panorama, the last two pages of the first section (also containing politics and international news). The nation-wide edition would cover crimes on the Panorama pages, or possibly in the combined Munich/Bavaria pages.

Sarabyrd,

I read the Munich (local) edition and find it interesting that many crimes or court cases are reported either in the Bayern or Munich section. The main section of SZ is actually quite short from a British perspective. I was just surprised once I discovered this fact as it would most likely be totally different in the English (UK) press; for one - there no regional section. And, the whole layout of the SZ is more like a Sunday Newspaper in the UK by having sections...

thanks for the answer anyhow...

lucky for me i am a white male i guess cause i am living in east germany for 2 years and have never had any problem. while i will admit that there is a lot of racism or other issue what i find is it is not directed twards americans or "west europeans". At my first company i repeately found my self hearing conversations about all this stupid immigrants coming to germany neverlearning german or "becoming german" only taking jobs or living off welfare. Keep in mind this was all done in english so i could understand as i never learned german in the first 4 years i was there. and i have meet many young germans that still blame all russians for the bad situation here.

I would venture to say the main difference between the UK and the US is size. In America the poor and the rich tend to live far apart. The old saying "living on the wrong side of the tracks" is very true in America. Live in the "white" ie rich section of town and crime is generally a non issue, move across the tracks to the "balck" side of town and crime is rife. Black on black crime tends not to make the news where as crime in the rich part of town is front page news. In the UK a small country means the rich and poor tend to live check by jowl.

The biggest crime problem facing America is the 10s of thousands of felons being released into the comunity each and every year. Poor job prospects minimal support means to quickly return to a life a crime. As a polition it's hard to justify spending tax dollars on getting felons integrated into the comunity. As long as the crime stays on the other side of the tracks people aren't so worried.

Without wanting to sound patronising, I think a lot of the people here are clueless. There is a real problem with racism in Germany, and it is not just the Skinheads and thugs who are guilty, it's the middle class, supposedly educated Germans as well who (in my experience) talk quite openly about their contempt for the Turks (as an example). I have lived in Berlin for over 3 years now, and coming from London which is a lot more cosmopolitan, (no-one can seriously argue with that statement), the lack of integration of the Turkish community into the white German one says a lot about the country as a whole.

BadDoggie, you are yet another naive German who thinks that because you maintain a veneer of cultivation, i.e. reading broadsheet newspapers!?? You are above accusations of anything like (shock horror!) racism. I am very suspicious of people who make too much of an effort to appear liberal, Germany is full of these people, and as an Englishman who has been living in Berlin for just over 3 years, I have gotten very bored of listening to sanctimonious twits like you who criticise England and the U.S for their social problems etc. At least ours are out in the open. Germany is afraid to talk about racism, which is just as much of a problem here as it is in the U.K, the U.S, or anywhere else in europe. I take it you've heard of the NPD?
woof back, haha.

Even I know BD is an Amerikan ...

* waits patiently for the dog to bark *

This should be good when BD reads it.

Clever cookie you are eh


Is it somehow compulsory for people to be totally happy about full on integration? Why do you deem it so? You compare it to the melting pot that is London? Why? Should the whole world be as mixed as London?

Doesnt bother me either way but you seem to think its a necessity. And I think the Turks are to blame for their lack of integration.

And without trying to sound patronising I think you sound like a lunatic!

I'm an uneducated, fat, naïve German.

TT's got my laughing in hysterics this week.

woof.

What was that thing with Quod and Erat and demonthingy?


Tell us, oh god-like commentator, what exactly are you basing that somewhat sweeping statement on?

Sweety, if you hang out with racists, you hear racist opinions. Why do you even know such people?

You do realise that Berlin, just like London and New York, has very little to do with the rest of the country. Like most metropolitain centers, it attracts extremists and wierdos of all colours.

Oh yes we can. What exactly do you base that on? I dont have the practice with living in London but everytime I visit my brother in Brixton there are areas Im bricking it in. The only racial violence Ive ever personally experienced in the UK or D was being hassled by a car full of obviously tweaking asian teens in Hounslow.

Do you wnat to come and explain that to my (turkish) neighbours? Your sweeping generalisations are, frankly, complete bollocks and its exactly the same sort of bollocks that the Bildzeitung and all the neo-nazis feed on. You are grazing real issues, but with a superficiality that really is no help to anyone and just nurtures fear and hate.

Ive said it before elsewhere but Ill repeat it here, Whatever your skin colour, you are massively less likely to experience violence for any reason almost anywhere in Germany than in most UK city centres on a weekend. Personally, who cares if I get glassed by a racist or a Millwall fan or some bloke like jay-me who thinks I was staring at his girlfriend? Id rather just not get glassed, thanks.

Go and watch "Bowling for Columbine" to learn how spreading fear is eactly the wrong direction to go.

andy M

You are wrong, BD. Its not uncommon, but people maybe giving a shit coz its not them or their fellow country men who are suffering from that. Check the snippet from spiegel:

How is it possible for the whole world in this era of globalisation not to be mixed? Do you really believe it's just the Turks who are to blame? You really think that they get the same opportunities as white germans when they arrive here? I think not. I should say, I am not aligned to left or right per se, I am just starting a debate. And what do you classify as a lunatic anyway? Sounds like you'd be happier living in the 1930's.

Just because the Germans criticise us (possibly with Schadenfreude) doesn't mean it is not true, and our problems might be out the open but I seriously doubt whether that will help. We seem to be the world champions in talking but never doing anything. I personally find that the UK is terrified of talking honestly about certain things, far too much PC here.

Sure Germany has to sort out the Neo-Nazis in the East and the government should be doing more, but that does not mean that Germans cannot also mention the UKs great social problems.

I have also gotten very bored, bored of listening to sanctimonious twits like you who criticise other countries for criticising us. Wake up.

What so you can't think of anything original to say? As for waking up, wtf? If you you actually use your brain, my comment about sanctimonious twits was in relation to BadDoggies ill informed statement about the U.K's social problems of which I seriously doubt he has any experience and the smug attitudes of continental europeans towards Britain and the British.
I like living in Germany and generally I like the German people. But I hate smugness regardless of where it comes from, and who it is directed towards.

Lets get the cops from Reno 911 to work in Berlin and cleanup the place

What gets me most is these topics always get the same spin!

Well, I'd take the racial/linguistic xenophobic beating risk over the crazy random gang crap in L.A. anyday.
I remember the days that a couple of deaf people were shot down for "signing" <-----------NOT A JOKE.