Laws about painting an apartment upon moving out

If you've lived in a flat or house for about a year are you legally supposed to paint the walls upon moving out or not?

cheers
f.

There was some information about this about 3 weeks ago on the front page of TT: Apartment redecoration laws

cheers but without reading thru all that which from memory concerns long term rental (5years +)

i wanna now about situ on leaving after just 12 months?

specifics you know.

ta.
f.

It doesn't say anything about how long you've been in the apartment. Just that you only need to paint it if it's necessary to do so.

We are planning to move out from our current place, after living here 3 years. I'd like to know what we can expect in respect of doing the flat up ("leaving how it was").

Painting all the walls, i guess is one. What about the laminate floor? It's got little scratches and marks; is it possible that we need to replace that as well?

Thanks for any reply.
ezitte

i'm doubt you have to replace the floor, but your contract probably says you have to have it cleaned in a professional manner... this involves polishing it with an electric polisher which should get rid of most small scratches and marks...

Dont get bullshitted by the owner. I was told that I had to repair all scatches etc, this is nonsense. The owners are not allowed to enforce this even though they try to get it in your contract.

Have a word with the housing people (Münchner Mietverein) they put me straight.

Regards
Dave

The new rules are now in effect and it doesn't matter what your contract says on a majority of the stuff. You no longer have to paint and such. The new laws happened sometime within the last two years and makes null and void any previous crappy agreement inside the realm or normal wear and tear.

My feeling is that the new law is to help stimulate the economy by helping people move around more. That seems to be a major factor why people just don't. That and the fact that they used to haul their kitchens around with them.

Can anyone give me any advice here please? My old landlord says I have to pay for the doors in the old apparment to be sanded down. The reason being I apparently used paint normally only for walls and painted the doors with this paint too. So now it's not possible apparently to paint over in white without sanding off all the previous paint first. Is he right? Do I have to cover the costs for that? I have an extra bit in my mietvertrag saying that I don't have to carry out any Schönheitsreparaturen but he reckons this doesn't come under that area...??

So he said it would cost around 550 Euro. I told him I'd try and hire a sanding machine and do it myself rather than pay all that money. So if anyone has one I could borrow it would be much appreciated!

Cheers,
Obie

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Yoou can rent a sander from OBI or Praktiker or probably Toom. And, I would just be sure that you can't paint over the flat paint first. In my experience, it's better to rough up the surface first then paint a glossy paint over it (assuming that he wants the doors painted again). If it's flat paint, what the hell, just paint over it, tell him you sanded them and then painted them and move out! Just kidding. He will probably chip a bit of paint off just to see what you did.

I do believe he is right...you should not have used wall paint on the doors. There is special paint for everything here...paint for walls, paint for kitchens & bathrooms, paint for radiators, paint for doors & window frames, etc.

When we moved out of old flat, Tom had to sand window frames, door frames (we didn't actually have to paint the doors as they were dark wood...but he wanted the door frames painted white) and radiators before painting them. He did not have a sander (poor thing) but used sandpaper. Totally recommend borrowing or renting a sander to make the job easier and a lot quicker.

You are wise to do it properly as *some* landlords have a habit of going over everything with a fine tooth comb at the end (I say some as some people have been fortunate to have landlords turn a blind eye to badly painted flats).

Thanks for the advice. Yeah, he said when I'Ve done it I shouldn't put any foundation on it because he wants to check it first.

Hm, time to take a week off work I think...

The only good thing is that I don't have to paint it again once it's sanded down and undercoated.

At OBI last night they had small sanding machines for 10 Euros from Black and Decker. Would that be alright??

@Obelix -
10€? Probably not. But post a picture and I can tell you. I had a Black and Decker Mouse in the States. It was great. Pissed at myself for not bringing it with me. I keep saying I'm going to bring it back because I have needed it lots!! So, if you have the money, buy one of those. They also have them at WalMart.

Yeah, it was definitely only 10 Euro! It was a black and decker, plain box, seemed to be a special offer. Bog-standard, just a round thing.

I saw the mouse too, it's 65 Euro...comes with lots of different fittings...u reckon I should get that one?? I only have to do three doors and a wall that's covered with wood, has grooves in it...

Well, if it's only 10€ and you're only going to use it once, then maybe. I liked my mouse because it was easy to use and not too heavy(for my weak little girl arms).
Don't forget you'll need sandpaper too.

My landlord has now advised me that if I don't pay the EUR 100 bill for repairs to replace a lamp ( it was rusted through so I couldn't screw any more bulbs in ), a leaky tap, a broken showerhead and broken bedlats, he will proceed with a court summons.

The reason I refuse to pay is because I was under the impression that repair costs are paid for by the lessor(Vermieter). I've checked the Internet and found that one can be made to pay for "Schönheitsreperaturen", but that these may not exceed EUR 75. Can anyone confirm this i.e. that my repairs exceed EUR 75 hence do not have to be paid and I can tell my landlord where he can go stick it? Will probably deduct it from my deposit in anycase

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I'm not 100%, but I'm pretty certain that generally it depends whether the repairs are normal wear and tear (like a rusty lamp for example) or carelessness on your part (how did you manage to break your bed lat anyway ?). Wear and tear is normally paid for by the landlord, things you break by you...

Landlords (except me natch) are c***s and try and rip tenants off big style.
Wear and tear the landlord pays and I think he is trying to pull a fast one on you.

When you are legally responsible for the costs, ask a friendly bloke you know from your locl German pub to do it for cash as opposed to forking over a fortune to a mate of the landlords who will jack up the bill.

As far as I understand, things like leaky taps, broken showerheads, etc, basically anything that's part of the apartment's fittings, should be paid for by the landlord. Unless of course you broke them yourself through negligent use.

If it looks like he's going to be a C U Next Tuesday about it, I'd recommend getting yourself some legal insurance (Rechtsshützversicherung) and then going to see a lawyer who knows about German rental law.

As others have mentioned already a rusty lamp fitting, a leaky tap etc. do have to be paid by the landlord, unless the damage exceeds normal wear and tear.

However, one might wonder how to define normal wear and tear, especially in regards to your bedlats...

Thanks for the advice. The bed lats were broken when I first moved in. They were taped together with black tape. Now that sounds even more kinky

I have Rechtschutzversicherung so I'm going to take the landlord on. For the record, it's a company called DERAG (Hotel Bautzen) and they're full of crap.

I heard that this wasn't the law anymore. Does anyone have any more info?

Edit: just found this info so will have a read even though the info looks to be 2 yrs old.

check your contract may depend on what you signed.
in my old place I had to pay 20% of what it'd cost to paint the doors and radiators cuz I lived there one year 3 months or something, and the contract said every 5 years they needed to be repainted.
grr

No, it's for the new contract. I haven't signed it yet so have the chance to alter anything I don't like. It says in it I have to paint the walls when I move out, however I remember reading on TT last year that that had changed. I can't find the info though

I have heard that too although I can't find a link to confirm it at the moment.

Whatever you end up signing it's worth taking pictures when you move in.

It doesn't really matter what you do, you'll get screwed anyway.

I moved out of my apartment in Schwabing in March 2003. I spent money, time and tons of effort painting it. I came back on the last Saturday (16 days before my tenancy officially ended) to find a workman who had ripped out the kitchen and bathroom for replacement and messed up all my hard work. He had my spare key from the nice little old lady of a hausmeisterin (who felt guilty and squeezed between a rock and a hard place). I naturally went loopy. The renter (Immobilieren Bossert) sent the biggest arsehole they had to waste my time and then point out that the kitchen and bathroom were a mess. Christ knows how I didn't rip his dick and balls off and ram them up his arse.

So I resolved that when I move out of this place I'm gonna do sweet FA. I might even gouge the parquet up a bit and smash a window. Sod 'em. They are the lowest form of life.

The law has changed and such clauses are no longer legal.

See this TT article: Apartment Redecoration Laws.

I recommend consulting a lawyer to be sure though.

Edit: Bollocks. That's the same link you already gave earlier in the topic. I still recommend consulting a lawyer though. Landlords can be right cunts when it comes to getting money out of you.

@ Sin, i empathise entirely. Nuff said.

Now our new landlady..., ..., ...

(they are all total fckers, be prepared to paint, scrub and find places you never even realised existed in an apartment and clean those b'stards too. wilkommen in deutschland!)

Don't even get me started.
Our last landlord checked the top of ALL door frames for dust and then whinged that we hadn't dusted up there despite the fact that the following week workmen would be renovating and therefore messing up the place anyway...

Contract or no contract - it pretty much all depends on your landlord / property management.
I always had good contact with mine, so they sent somebody over to have a first look through all the rooms after I had given notice. I lived there for almost 5 years but didn't even have to paint every room. I had painted the wall in the hall in yellow only half a year before, that also was not necessary to paint over.
Also they were quite co-operative with the cancellation period, they found a new tennant pretty quickly, so we didn't have to pay for the whole three months from notice to official end of contract.

So good, friendly contact with your landlord might be helpful.

Don't know what the landlords in Munich are like, though...

german landlords suck big time.

If your worried about getting your deposit back (ie you don't paint or clean to their standards) there is a simple solution which I've used, simply sign over your deposit in lue of the last 2-3 months rent. Simple!

I love when people say this. The fact is you need to check your contract very closely. Some contracts forbid doing this and will make you liable to fines or being sued. Don't believe me? ask the Mieterverein, if you're a member. I've had a few contracts like this in the past, so they are out there.
Oh, and they wern't always with German Landlords..

Hi

We are moving out of our house, which we rent, in 3 days. Our contract states that if we are living in our place less than 3 years then we must clean ( of course) and are responsible for 20% of the renovation costs. BUT I heard from someone today that there is a new law which states we need to pay nothing regardless of what our contract says. That the landlord is responsible for everything? Does anyone know about this? Please help save us money!

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Okay, I found information myself...but it is all in German and I don't understand 100%:

@michelizda

The 3 years rule is only valid if you signed your contract last year.Just going through this hassle myself. Basically, it still seems a little grey, bu the maximum you can pay is 30% for the kitchen and Bathroom and 20% for all other painting... You have to pay nothing for the flooring .. even if you damage it... ( Which I have done) you do not have to pay for the full repair. Wooden floorings have a life of 8-10 years, therefore if you have to sand it down and get it re-coated, then it's worked out on a percentage basis. For me, they wanted me to repaint and redo the floor and pay for it all... Only have pay 20% of the floor apparently !!

Best to go to a Mieterverein

Potbelly- We moved in January 2005. There is no damage anywhere. Just a little banana smeared on a wall thanks to my 2 year old, but I am happy to touch that up with paint that I have from the landlord. ( Its more embarrassing than anything). Our bathrooms are completely tiled except the ceiling and our kitchen is then the only object, i suppose...

in my rental contract it says:


WTF? my babylon translated tünchen as "whitewash, distemper, paint a painting using the distemper technique; veneer, cover with thin layer of fine material". Is this a Bavarian word? does it mean I have to paint or go over scratch marks or what? i figured i have to do this, whatever it is despite all new laws since it is in my rental contract.

"The rented property is to be professionally whitewashed (painted) at the end of the contract". Don't think "tünchen" is especially Bavarian. A bit old fashioned, maybe..

Seen Tüntchen before it is really old German for painting.Any contract written with professionally whitewashed is crap.The new law states that it has to be liveable.So if you painted 6 months ago it should not have to be painted agaín.

my bfs father told me the same thing (after having dealt with his son's ex-landlords problem with a very old carpet). i've been in the apartment less than 18 months, but it is in my contract that I have to paint it. I'm already having a bitch of a time trying to arrange this whole moving thing cause i don't have a car and it's hard to oragnize getting painting supplies, etc., but do I risk problem?

okay, i read a little bit and it looks like if the walls are okay, then no need to paint if the walls were painted a few years back, but it is the renters responsibility to make sure any holes created by nails or tacks or whatever are cleaned up or painted over. i have posters and pictures on the walls, so i gotta make sure these disappear.

Mietrechte

Elfenstar, give you a little tip there.When mixing any filling use 50% water and 50 % paint as a liquid.If you paint over any holes using this method, it does not matter how big or small,you can hardly see them when they have been painted over.