Dating in Berlin

Hi all,

I have an article to write on dating and weddings in Berlin.

Since I have experience with neither, I was wondering if I could ask for some experiences - general really:

What the scene looks like now? (Trends you might have noticed - not just amongst expats, but amongst German friends/ family)

Where are people meeting (i.e.: have internet/ speed dating services been more popular choices, or is it still a one on one - bars, clubs?)

General consensus - who is out there looking for a date? Main age range etc.

Any experiences you might want to share with me and would not mind me referring to (will not make direct mention of you) would be really great.

I also need to find out about the wedding trends at present in Berlin.

Are more people more opposed to marriage, or are weddings going on full swing? How are people choosing to marry now days? (Traditional, religious..)Are there any German wedding traditions?

You can post of PM me if you would prefer.

I would really appreciate any help you could give - would do some hands on research myself, but alas got hitched last year

I don't have too much experience with the whole 'dating' thing here, but talking around with people the general consensus is that Germans (at least boys) don't 'date'. You pretty much just meet someone. Hang out with them and friends, run into them at different bars/cafes and potentially, after a couple years, something might eventually blossom. But this takes years of dedication...

This is pretty off-topic but I've been dying to explain it to someone. I (from the US) found my German husband totally by accident. We've never had big issues personally with cultural differences because, though our families sometimes need a little extra explanation.

Our wedding invitation drama, I think, sums up the cross-cultural dating/marriage/family experience for most people: long story short, we made our invites ourselves because we have a lot of great design and printing resources and specific ideas that would have been prohibitively expensive to order. The Americans were all so underwhelmed that a few of them actually expressed pity (to my mother) that we had to settle for such sad little tacky invitations, and even more of them were actually offended by their simplicity and departure from tradition.

The Germans on the other hand, without a single exception, ALL expressed such joy and amazement and appreciation for our totally personal, fancy, and well-thought-out invitations, that many of them felt the need to call us not once, but twice to tell us so, and many of them told us that they were so impressed that they took them to work and showed their friends.

The lesson I extrapolated from all this, and you'll have to just take my word for it that I'm not a hopelessly tacky person and that we do have pretty good taste, was that for all the German love of order and reserve, Americans are actually the ones who require an abundance of tradition to feel comfortable and correct in social matters before they can relax. The shy Germans only care that you've invited them and they can go to a party; the Americans want to be invited in just the right way.

I met my boyfriend while I was living in New York when he visited my housemate and moved here in July 2006. We've been to three weddings since I got here, and he went to a rash of them (maybe about six) during the year before that. Since Napoleon, the legal ceremony has been separated from the church ceremony. Usually what seems to happen is that if you choose a church wedding (not so many do, especially in comparison to the US), you go with your closest friends and family, or maybe even just a couple of people to serve as witnesses, to the courthouse to do the legal ceremony. You wait with your party in a waiting room, then go in before an official, who talks to you a bunch (I couldn't understand German very well when I first came, so I have no idea what they say), maybe about 30-45 minutes, then you're done and you might take the people with you out to lunch or something. You can do your church wedding that day, or that week, whatever - I know an international couple who wanted to get their family to come but the guy needed a visa so they did their legal ceremony last summer and are holding the church wedding this summer.

I think weddings aren't actually so popular here, actually. I've heard most people just move in together and that's that. (As a musician, it kind of sucks, because I'm not sure how to find the church wedding gigs which are so plentiful in the US.) I'm not sure how the Kindergeld works if you don't marry - I mean the money you get if you stay home with your baby after giving birth. If the father stays home, I think you end up getting more money somehow...(you also get a tiny amount of money periodically for each child you have, which keeps coming until they're somewhere in their 20's).

Well, I have just the experience you're looking for... I'm American, early 40s and still quite attractive, so I do have that advantage. But I don't go to clubs/bars, since I can't bear the smoke, plus as a woman I would feel uncertain how to fit into that particular pick-up scene (different country, different culture). Let me see, in the last 6 months, the richest source has been my craigslist personal ad (I was interested in non-white immigrants so that's primarily who I got). Of dozens of responses, I met up with four, and "dated" two, but neither worked out very well. Then I met and dated three other men just around town, one at the swimming pool, one at the farmer's market in Hackescher Markt, and one at the English language boat party. Only one of these was German, and he went sort of wacko on me, maybe because I didn't fit the mold that his ordered little mind had mapped out. The swimming pool guy ended up being married, so the farmer's market guy is the only one who's still in the running -- very French and very sweet. A friend of swimming pool guy currently wants to meet me, and I'm sort of interested in a seemingly nice guy at the local foccaceria (but he's German so I'm a little wary based on the first experience). However, I'm a bit fatigued... Now, finding exactly what one wants, that's always a challenge, either at home or abroad!

As far as trends, nearly all the men I met were in their 30s (a little overlap below & above) and interested in an "older" woman, lucky for me. That may be fairly typical for the immigrant crowd, particularly from the developing world, as immigration often occurs in the energetic 30s. Many people are studying here, or using a nominal student enrollment as a platform to remain here; that could encompass a slightly younger crowd. I would imagine that meeting people at university is probably another really good bet for that sector. People who are working or free-lancing, as I am, need to be more active, but I'd say with very little effort, it's easy to meet men. Finally, as a tip to men, if you are open to non-German women, I would say that showing any sign of interest is a welcome change from the "locals" here. Actually, I have an American friend here who is far more successful with German women than American women at home, and my theory is that's because they like that he actually shows signs of life! I don't mind taking the initiative, but feeling like I might as well be a fly on the wall as far as my physical charms are concerned is definitely NOT something I like about the environment here! No wonder the birth rate's 1.3 children per couple and much of that is thanks to immigrants!

Any comments, thoughts, counter-observations would be welcome...

I would say that that reflects more on your family and friends than Americans in general.

Bingo

Most people seem to meet each other through friends or at house parties (usually still through friends.) People don't really seem to meet at bars unless they are trying to pick someone up for the night.
It's painfully lame here if you're single.

Which is one reason why you should get involved with activities outside of work. Maybe easier said that done but
there are various sporting activities... When I first came to germany apart from work there wasnt much. Luckily
I had taken up the sport of gliding - and through this learnt not only the language but also a lot of friends. In fact
this did NOT lead to the girl-of-my-life - I "bumped into" her at the research lab I was them visiting...

Thank you to all for your candid replies! They have been great!

If my article gets published I will PM all of you with the details.

Thanks again so much!

Feel free to post the details here in public too. Good luck with the publishing.

Will do! Thanks.

globalgirl, that is so true. Dating in Germany, from my experiences and from what I've heard of the experiences of others, moves slower than the average wet week. German guys seem to be shy beyond belief, and they don't chase either - the girls do the chasing, including making all of the first moves, and it takes an excruciatingly long time to get something going. Keeping it going also requires the patience of a saint and the endurance of a Kenyan marathon runner. Very frustrating and rather off putting for your average non-German.
australis

this is a fun topic. I've just started dating myself and it is torture. I hate chasing guys, but with Germans, that is exactly what you have to do, although my last two boyfriends were German and they chased me. i wonder what made them so different?

maybe this has to be split off to a german-wide topic?

I also didn't date here, but what I notice more and more is that it seems hard to just smile at someone... while I was in Canada I was smiling at girls sometimes and they were replying with a smile a lot more often then here. People are not smiling a lot and I can easily believe that it's a lot harder to meet someone here then in Canada.

Hmmm. I'm German - male. Not in Berlin, but i know Berlin. No difference. My thoughts:

I have my pick up record, but that's a totally different "game" then having a girflfriend. Girlfriends seemed to always come by accident, did they chase me? Yes, kind of. The girls i chased were never GF material, probably never intended to. When i was younger (teens) and still lived at home i desperately instrumentalized my mother to get rid of them afterwards. "riiing" ah... i'm not here. :-) "who's that? She sounded nice. - Eeehhh never mind. I don't want more of her. - Why not? - Ah forget it." Full Bastard mode.

But then there's the girl around who's interested in you. Somewhere in your sphere. She will let you know that she wants more. Then you decide.

But if you crash somewhere, after the certain party or night out it always went pretty fast. Kiss, sack, together. Where you find the dating in it? I don't know. What is dating? Going out for a drink?

I had foreign girlfriends, but only Scandinavian (1 swedish, 2 finnish). But "dating" up there for an American/Aussie would be even stranger. Then i have a little history with 2 Spanish girls, COMPLICATED and one Turkish girl. SCARY FAMILY.

My "German" advice in dating for guys: Keep a giant reservoir of female friends who have more female friends. Be nice to them. Than the right one will be there. LOL It's not hard to read the girl that wants more.
Play hard to get, if she sticks, take her.

I know this is the other way around in different places. I'm aware. But most of my friends have girlfriends. It works.

I've (American, 25)been dating a German (26) man for almost a year and a half now, we met in the states when he was studying. I can tell you that there is a big difference in dating a German (especially from the east). We met and I wasn't really interested in the time...maybe wrong timing but I think he thought I was playing really hard to get. He chased me for about a year and finally I came to my senses. When I ask him about it now, he says it was a challenge that he enjoyed with me...he felt that when we first met I was out of his league, which was part of the appeal (other than appearance and personality obviously). When we finally started dating, I was in heaven...I've never been treated so good by a man. I thought maybe it was just because the relationship was new and we were in love...but an international flight to Germany, no job, a hell of visa problems and a year later...it's still the same. I've been told though, this is typical of East German men (this opinion was given to me by a West German female)...she said that East German men are known to be alittle more romantic than Westies (and don't make me even compare to Americans). So it's typical that he brings me flowers home often on his way back from work or buy me little things because he is thinking of me. Since were on this topic...there was also recently an article in Neon magazine, supposedly East German couples are more satisfied with their love/sex life than West German couples...I'd like to think that's true.

Weddings and long term commitment: The way I was raised, I have a deep value in marriage, I want to marry and then start my family. My family is actually waiting on edge to see when he will propose to me...to them they think, "afterall they are living together so they should marry"-my family being American and religious. My boyfriend and his family values marriage a bit differently. It's common to move in with your partner before you marry and children are also ok to have before your married. I'd go to say it's more socially accepted to do this here, where as in the States it's looked down upon a bit. Especially if you have children with someone before you're married and then don't bother to marry once you have the children. This is one thing that we tend to disagree on; I do want to get married before we start having children, whereas my boyfriend doesn't care so much. He sees marriage as just a piece of paper, the commitment should already be there if your in a relationship with someone. And maybe this issue is also valued differently here because of other small reasons...such as taxes. No tax break for married couples here but there are in the States. Weird, eh?

Sorry? Where did you get that from? Germany's one of the few places I know where it REALLY pays to be married!

I stand corrected...sorry. Apparently as my boyfriend put it, "i can be a bad listener". But we could compare taxes on having children here (germanY0vs. the states. ???

edit: (Germany)

you can edit your posts. ;-)

m, this is an interesting topic. I'm from NZ.. and this is where I meet my East German boyfriend. There was no chasing - it mutually started. I find Kiwi boys much harder to understand.

there are definite cultural differences in terms of dating. my family was pretty horrified I had a german boyfriend to be honest (especially since he was much older).
they found him to be too 'german' - ie- orderly, exact, punctual. for me they just wanted a beer drinking, rugby playing kiwi.

coming to germany, I have found the dating thing to be much different. everyone seems more relaxed about people living together, having children before marriage.
children before marriage seems to be the german way -- but that's not how i've been brought up.

the differences make life more exciting anyway

I would love to be single and living in Berlin. In all the places I've been here in Europe, I think Berlin has the most attractive middle age men.

I've recently become fascinated by DDR, the cultural differences between the east and the west, the reunification, how they coped/ are coping with it, etc..
Right now I'm reading a book "From Colonization to Nostalgia: Representing East Germany since Unification" - somewhat too academic, but very interesting!

Anyway, -some time ago I saw a documentary "Do communist have better sex?"
I was intended as funny entertainment, but I thought it raised some very interesting questions.

It seems like the women in the old DDR were very liberated. According to this film, the "system" did not object to early premarital sex (mind you this was in the 60-70s!). They facilitated well for females to give birth early in life, and provided good childcare in order for the women to join the workforce. And it didn't seem to be of too much importance whether there was a husband / father around either. At same time, in West-Germany they encouraged a rather different family model (not unlike what you see in the US today :-) : housewife at home, taking care of the children and the family's needs.

Actually, the film even suggested that the men in the DDR were somewhat regarded as weak and inferior to the women.
I would really recommend this documentary!

-So is it possible that there is a big difference between the mating game in the east and the west?

(About the game of "dating": Very interesting in an larger European context. When I grew up (in Norway), this concept did not exist, and seemed to be much like the current situation in Germany of today. However, the younger generation has obviously now learnt "dating" from American TV-shows. They have even adopted the English word "dating", -so now you hear it all the time, everywhere and anywhere.)

Does the term dating generally mean that you can have a lot on the go at the same time? I find it a bit confusing as you have to dance with people where I come from before you can snog them, although someone will probably tell me that that is all changed now.