Ghost drivers, and how to prevent such accidents

I tried Keydecking this topic, and was surprised that it hadn't really been discussed before.

After hearing about the big accident on the A96, it did get me thinking - isn't there a way to prevent a "Geister Fahrer" (ghost driver), or lessen the number of occurances?

I remember last summer being shocked at the frequency of which a ghost driver was reported on the radio. If I remember correctly, I think it was at least one every couple of weeks. Are they all suicides? Or just old peoplewho can't see which way they're going? Or are people really not paying attention?

I never heard of such a thing in Canada. Is is common in other countries, too?

This is a subject that has bothered me for some time. Mainly because I don't want to be in the wrong autobahn at the wrong time!

It does seem to happen a massive amount of times here, in Britain it would still make the news but it hardly gets a mention here. I do think the design of exit and entrance is to blame. Because both exit and entrance use the same road often with several different islands dividing them up at the end, it's too easy to get confused and go down the wrong one. In Britain there are usually 4 separate roads leading to and from the mororway, so it's more difficult to get it wrong. The German system uses up less land and is cheaper, but much more prone to errors, I believe.

No way of stopping it. Even if you put one way spikes on the autobahn ramps, you could still do a Uturn on the autobahn.

I'd imagine they're laregly thrillseekers. Hard to go mistakingly the wrong way onto the autobahn

It happens much more frequently than every couple weeks, I should be surprised if even one day passed without one (Germany-wide). My Ma managed to enter down an exit but realized it right away - she wasn't old at the time either, about my present age.
Sometimes it's deranged old biddies or crones but generally it's
alcohol
misleading signposts
illegible signs due to inclement weather
just plain not watching out
turning around after missing the correct exit
suicide
dare
(from Falschfahrer )
Putting up spikes or barriers has been discussed but discarded for various reasons, such as what if there is an emergency and an ambulance has to take an exit to enter the Autobahn, or what if there is a traffic jam on an exit on an incline and someone rolls backwards, etc.
I strongly advise having your car radio adjusted to the interruption option so you will always get the freshest traffic news, and sensitize your hearing for Geisterfahrer or Falschfahrer. Always know the number of the Autobahn you are on as well.

just watch ghostrider videos.

maybe they think everyone else is going the wrong way ;-)

As a senior citizen was driving down the freeway, his car phone rang. Answering, he heard his wife’s voice urgently warning him, “Herman, I just heard on the news that there’s a car going the wrong way on Interstate 77. Please be careful!� He said, “It’s not just one, it’s hundreds of them!�

(I couldn't resist.)

They need those big old signs like in Oz

I've always thought it must be because the side lines and the center lines are both white. In the US the center line is yellow, but the side lines are white. If you've got a yellow line on your right, you're going the wrong way. I never paid attention to the line colors in other countries though.

Austria goes as far as having two types of warning signs. ÖMATC info
Of course the old one on the right is better - it can be seen on the rear side of slip road exit direction signs, so helps to stop someone becoming an accidental Geisterfahrer.
The one on the left is new and is being introduced on the A12 now on the main carriageway, usually on overhead signs - it is to warn people already driving the right way that someone else might not be so wise.

I had no idea what the new one meant until Katarina explained it.

Is it too early for the blonde joke?

Guy calls his wife to tell her.

"There is some nutter driving down the wrong the side of the motorway."

her reply.

"Is the f*ck there's loads of them!"

I'll get may coat!

Read the above first.
EDIT: Geisterfahrer sind die freundlichsten Autofahrer - sie sind so entgegenkommend.
*joins JOB getting coat*

Really should read it all before diving head first right in there

That's me told!

It happens a lot in France. I always make a point of driving on the right hand side on dual-carriageway roads and on more than one occassion a car has flashed by me on the left. Needless to say even at low speeds the combined speeds head-on collion would be leathal.

it is normal given what they do with traffic here. Today, they shut down the Schellingstrasse to one direction. There was a very small sign just before the turn but very difficult to see. The car infront of me turned right and barely miised the car coming from the opposite direction.

I think it´s the way the roads are built. Back home in the States I´ve never heard of anything like this, and believe you me, we have thrill seekers in the States as well (*gasp* surprising, I know). I think it´s just much too easy to mistakenly go the wrong way.

But have you noticed here how people don´t use common sense? They´ll start driving forward just because they have a green light, even if there is something in front of them which it would be wise not to drive into...

When you are driving on a long journey and travel along a long stretch of dual-carriageway that then suddenly becomes a single road with two lanes, one which is your lane and the other for oncoming traffic
then it is very easy to momentarily think you are still on a dual carriageway and one can carelessly overtake at some not very opportunistic moment and come face to face with oncoming traffic. I think this can happen to anyone and is something to watch out for.

aye, ive never actually made that mistake, but when you drive from passau to munich, youre switching from autobahn to überlandstrassen quite a few times, and some bits of the B12 do look pleasantly like a two lane street, specially because theres very rarely gegenverkehr on that stretch. beautiful over taking spot.

to be honest, i was driving around for the first time in munich city yesterday, and i found it madly confusing around olympiapark changing on to donnersbergerbrücke, loads of loopy onramps etc. maybe thats just because id been in the olmpiahalle for 24 hours..

id say most geisterfahren cases are down to alcohol, not paying attention (mobiles?), obviously suicides (fuck you you bitch, ill show you, ill show you all!) and the rest are obviously fucking idiots. or english. girlfriends da saw a UK reg car happily motoring along on a landstrasse driving on the left near passau...

i mean, thats just weird...obviously driven all the way over from the UK, and theyre STILL mixing it up?

berny, the Donnersbergerbrücke is a deathtrap. I frigging hate it, hate it, hate it! Don't feel bad that you let it get to you.

Literally. There is barely a couple of days goes by without an accident there.

As previously mentioned the most simple solution would be to keep the slip-roads leading on to or coming off the motorway apart, at least that would prevent accidental "Ghost drivers!"

never underestimate peoples ability to completely fuck up regardless of every possible warning.

I know, I chose my Worte deliberately.

It is possible to prevent ghost drivers, reckless drivers or counter-flow drivers. Please see the following links to youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvTLybfnY6c +
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RS_xuD8mAME

I live in Denmark, and we have approx 100 ghostdrivers a year. A few weeks ago we had a terrible accident with a ghostdriver killing four people.

Btw. I know the problem is huge in Eastern Europe and the US.

Wbr Lars C

I have NEVER ONCE heard of ghostdriving happening in the U.S, and I am American. How do you "know" the problem is huge there?

Last night a Geisterfahrer motorcyclist rammed a truck front on in suicidical intent on the A93 (close to Windischeschenbach). He succeeded, the truck caught fire, the truck driver escaped uninjured but in severe shock.

Hi,

Please look at this five years old report from US highway authorities at http://www.tfhrc.gov/pubrds/02sep/06.htm The figures from year 2000 was approx 300 killed - it was approx 150 times more than in Denmark. The population in Denmark in year 2000 was approx 5,5 mill people and in the US approx 250 mill people. So the problem with ghostdrivers or wrong way drivers is huge in the US.

Wbr Lars C

Pretty wonky use of statistics there. Firstly, if the 300 people killed in America represents 150 times the number killed in Denmark, then only two people died in Denmark from such accidents. This is far too low a number to use for such statistical comparisons. Secondly, you would have to measure by miles travelled not by population number. Since Americans drive more, it is inevitable that the accident rates will be higher there.

you need to sort your football fans and stadium security people out too Lars

you could argue that the roads are more congested in Denmark though so an accident would have a greater effect

Also, even if the number is much much higher in the US, the reason we've never heard of it (and I know I haven't) is because there are probably hundred of other much bigger problems out there.

Whereas a ghostrider killing himself and others makes the news in Germany, in the US it has to compete with murders, robberies, latest-chemical-that-will-kill-you-and-your-children-that-is-found-in-many-common-household-foods, etc.. sadly, 300 people a year isn't a "huge problem" in the US

Hi,

Your right about that, but is the problem smaller if we say that americans drive more than danes? I believe the problem is that road accidents has very low priority in many countries worldwide, please look at http://www.who.int/roadsafety/week/activit...m/en/index.html

Wbr Lars

YES, the danes lost their purity Saturday

Wbr Lars C

We can always find other issues where the problem the bigger - but it is a problem that the roads where a lot of folks is everyday, that you just driving your car from work or school can be killed. 1,2 mill people is killed every year in traffic worldwide - approx 50 mill people is injuried.

We have in my company a project with detection of landmines, "only" 25,000 people is killed or injuried every year - why should we bother about that? Much more people is killed by AIDS or Cancer.

Wbr Lars C

Of course, that isn’t a fair comparison… you can have an infinite number of companies, tackling many different tasks. I didn’t say no one should try to solve the ghost riding. I did say, however, that news space is limited (time, paper, etc). So if there are more pressing things in the news, then that’s what gets coverage… please note: I’m also not saying this is right either (ie. Paris Hilton instead of ghost drivers)

However, I think there is something to it happening here: The onramps are probably more conductive to it here, as opposed to the US where they are separate. I honestly can say I’ve never heard of one instance in the US.

I hear on the radio all the time here in Germany warnings for Geisterfahrer, but like people from the US have said, in Australia I never heard once of someone doing this.. I find the whole thing very strange.

Hi,

I believe some of the problems of this unknown subject is the definition or lack of. Ghostdrivers is called many other things in US and Commonwealth, like reckless drivers, counter-flow drivers or wrong way drivers - but perhaps look at
http://www.google.dk/search?hl=da&q=wr...3%B8g&meta=

The dangerous problem is also in Australia

Wbr Lars C

Guys, I hear what you're saying and to me it sounds like this:

"Yes, but I've never heard of such a thing happening in <insert country here>, therefore it never happens. The statistics are wrong. It's obviously these inferior German roads and their non-yellow lines."

Whichever way you look at it, over 300 deaths a year in the US through wrong-way drivers is a lot. I don't know the stats for Germany, but how many times have you heard a Geisterfahrer announcement, and how many times did it end with an accident? The number of times someone drives the wrong way is far less than the number of accidents that occur due to this.

Let's turn this around and ask what we can do so that these very useful (and potentially life-saving) public service announcements are provided by the radio channels (via the emergency services) in our home countries? Obviously they aren't being currently (not in Canada, USA, Oz or UK anyway). That's one very good way to prevent such accidents IMO. It seems to be working here.

"No matter how idiot-proof you make a system, nature will always build a bigger idiot."

i thought in australia everyone was doing it, but since they all did, it didn't seem so dangerous.

Actually, of those 3 sentences, I am saying the first one but not the second two.

I think though, that there are lies, damn lies, then statistics. I really do believe that the specific phenomenon of someone entering a highway traveling in the wrong direction is not terribly common in the US. I’m just saying I want more information on those statistics (I’ll look at the link later when at home)

For instance, if someone is passing on a rural road, and gets in a head on… does that count as a ‘ghost driver’ for the US?

Like I said, I’m specifically curious about people entering a major highway going the wrong direction. I’d be really surprised if so many people could spend so long in the US and never have heard of it, yet have it be “a huge problem�

From the link http://www.tfhrc.gov/pubrds/02sep/06.htm originally posted by Lars C:


So if the specific phenomenon of someone entering a highway traveling in the wrong direction is not terribly common in the US, that would mean that it very frequently results in fatalities.

All the more reason to introduce public service announcements, as that's certainly not the case here in Germany.

As for stats on wrong-way driving in its totality, as opposed to occurrences where there were fatalities, I expect these will be very difficult to come by and even more difficult to verify and compare due to different percentages of unreported cases.

One relatively recent and high-profile example in the U.S.: Wrong-Way Richie.

I have to sday i've found a few autobahn junctions that are not very clear and you could easily turn on to the off ramp, although whether you woul;d continue on to join the autobahn is of course entirely a different question.

In the UK to do the Ghost Driver bit you would have to be fairly detemined as you would have to do a 180 degree turn back on yourself to get on the motorway the wrong way.

Hi,

In Denmark we have approx 100 ghostdrivers a year and a few weeks ago four people was killed in such an accident - and alert was sent on the radio about this ghostdriver, but if you don't hear the radio - then what?
It seems to me that we already have the proper technology to prevent ghostdrivers and a lot of other types of accidents, and the funding shouldn't be a problem. In DK each accident cost approx €150.000 - and if new tech prevent 160 accident - a total system like e.g. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvTLybfnY6c is paid back. Just think about why not!

Wbr Lars C

Idioten like this need to have their corpses hung up and displayed in public. All their remaining worldly goods should be given to the victims families. People like this make me puke.
Topics merged by admin

This is a subject which I have discussed with a few people recently. I believe it to be a strangely German phenomenon because I never came across it in the UK nor at home in Ireland but maybe that is because we have so few motorways there (in Ireland). I also believe that the positioning of the entrances and exits onto Autobahn make it easier for people to go mistakenly the wrong way.

However, I do not understand the reasoning why someone who wishes to take their own life would drive into and kill other people. Is it the lack of other solid obstacles to drive into? Is it the ultimate cry for help? Why does it happen in Germany? If someone else lost all reasoning and hope for life will they even think rationally about what they are doing? There are bound to have been some studies done on this subject.

Recently in Northern Ireland teenage boys have been arranging pacts on the internet and taking their own lives in sequence although I do not have a link. I think rather than condemning these people it needs research into why they are doing it and try to prevent it in the future.

I know that that is little consolation for the victim's families but I do not think the hanging of Geisterfahrer in public would provide consolation either. In fact, if anything it would persuade many of the less stable members of society that this is a sure fire way to get the recognition they desire.

I think that recent poster was expressing his disgust and frustration at such a senseless act more than expecting his suggestion be taken literally. It must be dreadful for the families of the innocent people killed. Such bitterness it must generate.

I would bet my one beer beside me that his suggestion was indeed a literal one but lets see what he says. I have been wrong before.

I do agree about the disgusting egotism, though I would never expose the culprit/victim in public. If you want to kill yourself, do just that. Do NOT take anyone else along with you. They never harmed you and the survivors will never, ever understand nor forgive you, nor possibly your next of kin.