German idiom: Zuckerbrot und Peitsche

Title says it all.

on the off chance that the title gets 'modded':

German idiom: Zuckerbrot und Peitsche
Q: Is there an English idiom along those lines?

I like that idiom, it's all about Skinner's approach and he WAS American, funny how it existed before Skinner came along, anyway, I find it difficult to believe that this approach to learning, and, well, controlling people does not have its own idiom in English.

While we're at it: Any takers for an English translation/idiom for 'roter Faden'? As in: Da ist kein roter Faden.

Thanks!

As far as Zuckerbrot und Peitsche goes, this website translated it as "with a carrot and a stick".

And here's Roter Faden.

carrot and a stick refers to training horses/mules...reward them with a carrot when good and give them the stick when bad...I know there are other non-equine idioms like this, I just can't think of them right now.

Thanks

But - the carrot and stick thing...

Never mind it refers to horses, the problem I have with it is that it conjures a pic in my mind of dangling a carrot just in front of a donkey's mouth (using a stick and a piece of string) to make it go forward. You know what I mean (see pic below). Not the same, is it? Or would native English speakers (calling all nations!) have different associations?

Hi Jenny, are you sure that you'd get the point and not be mystified if somebody said: Very nice novel, but I kind of missed the golden thread.


Not trying to be horrible, it's just, I'd NEVER say that in English. Maybe people do

I know what you mean, this is more "an der Nase herumführen".
How about "iron fist in a velvet glove"?

that one might work...unfortunately the reality of the meaning is more of feed the carrot or beat the horse with the stick...

Getting closer, but also confirming my suspicion that there's no 1:1 idomatic translation.

No problem, I can live with that

What keeps me up at night (sort of, not really) is that I have that feeling that there IS an idiomatic expression and I simply can't think of it.
There's also 'speak softly but carry a stick' - again close, but no cigar.

yeah I had the same thought. There are several that have part of the idea, but not dead on.

Spare the rod, spoil the child kind of hits on the topic, but not really.

There has to be one that covers both ideas, reward positive behavior, punish negative behavior.

I just can't think of what that idiom would be...

I would always use 'carrot and stick (approach)' as a translation for this. As Lexicon says, the stick referred to is for beating the donkey/horse on the behind, not for dangling the carrot.

And I don't see a problem with the equine association, English idioms are normally very figurative, and in this case the German one isn't any less so.

i think that is from the t.v. show "kung fu" with david carradine.

on another note, my collegues are always asking me for the English equivalent of some German idiom. my feeling is, we, at least in the u.s., don't use that many. at least not as many in germany. or maybe, idioms are ever evolving & the ones they use go back tot he middle ages.

That's what most internet sites suggest. I suppose it works.
Teddy Roosevelt is famous for the big stick quote, but he attributes it to West Africa.

If the above example is meant to convey that something doesn't quite hang together, I think you'd say "[it lacks a] unifying thread".

If "roter Faden" can also be used to refer to an idea or topic that runs through an author's work, for example, then in English I'd say "recurrent theme / thread", or else (leit)motif.

No, I have never in my life used the term "golden thread"- I was just blindly passing along information I googled. Because every piece of information you find on the internet is the truth.

Can't argue with that