If a hire car is seized by customs, who pays?

Anybody here work for a car hire company?

I’m keen to drive a large quantity of wine, over from France as my parents do enjoy a drop or two. Apparently despite the wording of excise free for personal consumption customs decides that anything over 90 litres cannot be personal. And I’d like to bring about 10 times that amount

So the honourable thing to do is not to declare it, and hope for the best. The chances are very low of being inspected, but if you are caught they can confiscate the vehicle.

What happens if it’s a hired vehicle? If you crash or have it stolen you obviously don’t pay the value of a hired vehicle, but what if it’s seized by customs? Does that count as stolen, or lost? Or will the hire company try and get back the full value of the vehicle from you?

900 liters is a drop or two? Not declaring goods is honorable? Sorry, I don't have any specific advice, but do you really think it's worth the risk? Would it make you comfortable?

If you have some kind of proof for a big party or something, you can claim over the 90L limit as I know many that have done that from France into the UK. Something like a big birthday, christening, wedding and the like - just has to be non-commercial.
But you will need proof - so send your pals an invite to a private event. Even better - have the actual event.

However, *actually* getting engaged or something might be a bit drastic, eh?

If you get get caught, they will usually confiscate the stuff rather than the vehicle, the real risk that you run is overloading. As someone stopped last year for being half a ton overloaded in a 7.5T lorry on the M6 near Stafford, UK Vehicle Control will bung a prohibition notice on the vehicle until the excess is unloaded. We chucked loads of stuff and then had a limitation order put on the truck meaning we could only drive at 50MPH. To Dumfries. From Stafford. Seriously.
That was a hire vehicle and while it could have been impounded, and yes personal liability is part of the rental agreement at least in the UK, it wasn't.

Is there a border/customs patrol between France and Germany?

90 litres? Where's the party?

Well its hardly worth taking the ferry just to bring 90 litres. That would be about 4 months consumption for my parents. And the wine you can get over there is crap, you have to pay about €10 per bottle, to get something that would cost €2 per bottle in France.

I think the excise duty is outrageous, about 3.90 per litre. And I disagree with customs that giving wine to your parents is not personal use.

So yes it does seem honourable to spend quite an amount of time and money to ensure that one's parents have an adequete supply of wine in their old age, now that one's father is too infirm to make his own wine, which he's basically done all his life.

The customs (Zoll) can pick you up ANYWHERE but more specifically they patrol several kms this side of the border.

Sorry to be more specific, I would buy the wine in France, and then take the ferry to Ireland. So the problem is as you leave the ferry and drive through customs. Overloading is not a problem as 900 litres wieghs about 900kg if its in boxes which it would be mainly, and a typical transporter has a rating of 1300kg.

I reckon there's a 1 in 100 chance of getting nabbed, having to pay the duty on the spot would be painful but doable. Having the load confiscated would also be bad. Having to pay €30k or whatever for the full vehicle value would be however disasterous.


This is slightly more convoluted that Katrina's normal clear, informative prose. What I'm interested in is what would have been your liability had the vehicle been impounded (for overloading as opposed to smuggling)

AFAIK UK Customs & Excise were ordered by the EU a year or two back to stop their bullying tactics and gracefully concede that alcohol bought in the EU can be freely imported to the UK without any restrictions. The burden of proof has been put back where it belongs - on them to prove you intend to sell the stuff (which is illegal) rather than on you to prove you intend to have a merry life of alcoholism. In the past they made the assumption that anyone bringing more than an arbitrary amount they decided must be a criminal, terrorist, or part of the mafia, clearly a ridiculous assumption

Mind you, that said, it would be a brave person who sticks two fingers up to the nice officers at the border...

There's no duty to pay - you paid it already in the EU. The distinction that is drawn is between 'personal use' and alcohol/tobacco bought for illegal trade. It's a mess the UK government has made for itself, although the historically vastly different tobacco prices between France and Germany did do a lot to support organised criminal gangs who earned a lot of money smuggling tobacco into the UK for sale.

I would think it's *much* higher for a transporter, at least going into the UK. Most times I've driven, it's *only* transporters that get stopped, plus the odd car with a roof box or obviously well laden.

Well the Irish customs call it excise, and they also stick with the 90 litre limit. I've had Email conversations (under an assumed name, as this one is) and a phone conversation. They are adamant, bringing alcohol for your aged parents is not personal use. Now if I were to immigrate to Ireland, I could bring a wine callar with me, but I'm not going to do so.

To me the only solution is not to declare it, and take the consequences. I had planned to drive my batterred camper van, but unfortunately it gave up the ghost on the way. So I'm thinking of hiring a vehicle.

As far ass impounding the vehicle, it's unlikely. You'd be liable for all costs incurred by the rental company in getting their vehicle back.

Nine hundred litres of wine cannnot be considered "personal use" unless you've got a 500-person wedding. Getting it for your parents is a "gift" and may come under even more severe restrictions.


The wine weighs about 900kg, the bottles the wine's in (75cl, each @~500g) weigh another 600kg, unless you meant you're getting bag-in-box wine <shudder>.

woof.

Bag in box wine is not as wonderful as a gran-cru, but its still better than the shit you get in bottles in Ireland for €8 per bottle. Its cheap practical and drinkable.

I know BiB has a poor reputation, but you can get decent wines. There's nothing to stop people putting decent wines in BiB except for people who assume its going to be shit wine because it has a reputation for being really cheap. And BiB is practical. The wine does not spil after being opened.

I got 3L and 5L boxes of Cote du Rhone, and Bordeaux from Nicolas and they were very good. And obviously I'm looking to spend 2-3 Euros per litre not 10 Euros if I'm transporting up to 1000 litres

What's the fare for a van from Rosslare to France?
If you were saving €7 / litre on 90s litres that would be EUR 630 so even after deduction of the fare and van hire its still a saving.

Yup, the customs in Ireland (and the UK) are twunts on this and tend towards acting illegally against your rights to transport EU duty paid goods.
But 900 litres, porobably not worth the risk.

I know people who know people who knows a bloke in the pub that have lost transit vans on these trips.

Being a Long weekend, extra traffic. I would go Across and come back when the Holiday makers are all coming back at the same time on Sunday- Monday

Aussie Steve

you must really love your parents, I am all for "no risk - no fun", but did you think when your parents get hold of this golden water that their drinking habits might change? I dont want to be the party killer... kateTV suggests asking those few that travel frequently to Ireland or UK and if they could bring something with them. I would for you

kateTV

The fare is €120 each way, without a cabin. Add another €90 for a cabin. And the ferry alone takes about 20 hours. then there's three hours driving to may parent's place, and 12 hours driving from Munich to Cherbourg. assuming I wasnto stay over at least 3 days, its really a weeks investment in time.

So it would really be pointless doing it for 90 litres. 300 or 400 litres is the minimum that makes sense.

900 litres? Assuming your parents are moderate drinkers, lets say a bottle a day, then that would be equivilant to 1200 bottles (0,75 l). That would be enough drink for the next 3 years!

Small logistical point...how exactly are you planning to get 1000 bottles into a CAR?!? You are going to need a van at least which might increase the chances of being pulled over.

everytime I've been in a van going from France to UK it was searched.

You talk about the fact you want to buy good wine - then say its coming in boxes... I assume you meant cases...

Anyway - don't forget that the bottles themselves will add considerable weight to the load. This could easily overload your car

900 kg of wine + 3-400 kg for the bottles. Plus you.

What's up with the last 4 posts, except Rilana's. The topic is a page long and they didn't even bother to read it before posting oh-so helpful irrelevancies.

I think you should drop the whole 'giving it to my parents' aspect and have one of them meet you just before the border. Bring a letter from their Alcoholics Anonymous group explaining that they are complete drunks also. Joking. Good luck.

Think it was the cost of the vehicle but as I said, it is unlikely that they would impound and more likely that they would get you to chuck any excess. Which could mean that you have to get a pal to come to the pound, load stuff into his Hiace and Bob is your mother's uncle.
Impounding is a huge hassle for them and really, thinking back to the work I did with H&M Customs & Excise all those years ago, they prefer to have you reload as it is less paperwork.
Make sure your mobile is charged then.
And don't forget that if you get checked at a weighbridge, the entire vehicle with all passengers in it is weighed. Getting passengers to catch the train instead if stopped might help.

Right - camper van? Ireland?? Drinky parents??? Right, I'm down to 2 candidates for the poster's alter-ego, one bearded, one not. Your secret is safe with me but it will cost ya red Barry's Tea Bags thank you.

Do you have a priest's costume or at the very least a priest's dog collar?