Cost of living for a young family in Munich

Hi
Have trawled through TT looking at the cost of living threads, but am looking for a couple of indicative numbers to help us get a better idea of some of the costs we would likely incur as a family with three young kids. I've done all the basic calculations like rent, medical insurance, unemployment etc and have an idea of rent. Can anyone please help with some indicative numbers of what the following items might cost us each month:

- heating and water costs for a ~120-150m2 apartment
- household contents insurance
- car insurance (assume a medium range family car e.g. a 5 yr old stationwagon)
- life insurance for primary income earner (I assume this isn't part of the regular pension scheme ?)
- a roadside assistance program (equivalent of AAA in the US I think or NRMA in Australia)
- swimming lessons once a week for the kidsx3
- grocery bill (yep - I know this depends on whether we eat rice or caviar, but any ball-park figure from a family with 3 young kids would be great!)
- membership at a local gym (not looking for anything fancy here either)

MOST grateful for any numbers you might be able to provide. Please don't feel you need to respond to the full list - all thoughts appreciated!
Thanks
/Mo3

Quick answer and ball park figures. I have the exact figures at home. We've two boys.

- heating and water costs for a ~120-150m2 apartment
this is covered in your rent. That is if the figure is warm

- household contents insurance
Probably 300 in a year I'll check that though

- car insurance (assume a medium range family car e.g. a 5 yr old stationwagon)
I can never remember this figure

- life insurance for primary income earner (I assume this isn't part of the regular pension scheme ?)
I have whats called a direktversicherung. which is a tax free system. I pay around 3500 a year into this.

- a roadside assistance program (equivalent of AAA in the US I think or NRMA in Australia)
is often included in your car insurance. Otherwise ADAC membership is 50 euros a year I think?

- swimming lessons once a week for the kidsx3
No idea my kids play footie

- grocery bill (yep - I know this depends on whether we eat rice or caviar, but any ball-park figure from a family with 3 young kids would be great!)
our weekly bill is around about 100 euros. But we dont buy alot of precooked frozen stuff so just doing the basics at aldi saves money.

- membership at a local gym (not looking for anything fancy here either)
50 euros.

You will probably only want to even consider a German life insurance policy if you reckon you are going to stay here for good.

EDIT: at least not a Kapitallebensversicherung. Maybe a simple Riskolebensversicherung is more appropriate.

Thanks Gideon for such a prompt response. Am somewhat surprised at the EUR 100/week for groceries though. Here in Australia I would reckon with about EUR 150-175 a week, including nappies for our twins, household items like laundry powder etc. We eat relatively simple meals (kids love spag bol, chicken and fisk a couple of times a week etc) , but do need to provide 3 meals a day for the kids as these aren't offered at school/day-care.
I always thought food in Germany was meant to be more expensive than here ... perhaps not?

@ HEM - Can you pls explain the basic differences between the two types of insurances you refer to?

Bread and water three times a day doesnt stretch the household budget.
We also pretty much only shop at Aldi. We also don't have nappy or related excess costs any more.

Those will definitely increase your weekly bills (I guess Gideon's football-playing boys are out of nappies already ).

Edit: As he just confirmed.

Oh dear - there will be better people than I placed to answer this. Here goes...

Kapitallebensversicherung is the "traditional" one that covers risk & provides a lump sum at 65 or whatever if you get there.
Whereas in the past in Germany the "profits" from such a life insurance were tax free this is no longer the
case for new life policies - so there are probably better ways of saving for retirement. Gains in German policies
were typically not as high in past as for UK equivalents.

Riskolebensversicherung just covers your dependents if you go toes up. There is no savings aspect so no lump sum paid out at 65.
Needless to say the monthly rates for Riskolebensversicherung are less than for Kapitallebensversicherung.

I expect someone in or close to the business will chime in...

A Kapitallebensversicherung will pay either when you die or reach a certain age. It is very expensive and you get better interest-rates just putting your money on a cash-account
A Riskolebensversicherung pays only when you die. It is much cheaper.


EDIT: Too slow

Crumbs - how do you manage that? I have two teenage kids and we do our basic shopping at Aldi with some things
from market & other shops but I'd estimate our weekly costs are factors above that

- household contents insurance
look up "Hausratsversicherung". it depends on city where you live, how big your place is and how much you want your things to be insured for. my bf has 65 sqm and has insurance for something like 20k Euro for us two and pays perhaps 80 Euros a year. when i was in munich, i had 36 sqm and paid the minimum of 35 Euro a year and had everything covered to around 12k Euro. that was the minimum. my bf has an expensive insurance.

- a roadside assistance program (equivalent of AAA in the US I think or NRMA in Australia)
ADAC. costs about 125 Euro a year for full coverage.

- swimming lessons once a week for the kidsx3
join a "Verein". will cost you and your kiddies about 200 Euros a year. my karate club cost me a bit more than that. kids pay around half.

- grocery bill (yep - I know this depends on whether we eat rice or caviar, but any ball-park figure from a family with 3 young kids would be great!)
me, live w/hearty eater, grocery bill a week is about 50 Euros (we get free lunch at work & only eat breakfast on the weekends). does not include wine or toiletries. toiletries (t.p., dish washing detergent, etc.) run us about 10 Euros a month extra. me alone & my beauty stuff, at least 50 Euro a month.

- membership at a local gym (not looking for anything fancy here either)
i pay 50 Euro a month. sign-up fee runs you about 150 Euro.

Planning is the key for me. It helps that we cook most of our own meals from basics, you will not find a ready made pasta sauce in my kitchen, nor anything like ready made schnitzel or stuff like that. I also avoid schnick-schnak products. I see no point in buying my speck ready diced for an extra 50 cents! Or a yohgut with a ceral "ecke". Waste of money. This reduces the costs enourmously.

We also try to buy seasonaly. Strawberrys in winter are not the cheapest thing, both fr the wallet and the enviroment. The bills do vary. I spent 60 last week on Monday, and that food pretty much lasted us untill tomorrow. For that price I cooked sausage rolls, cornish pasties, which lasted us days I can tell you, my wife did wiennerschnitzel, we had a couple of pasta dishes and finaly had chicken wings with a honey and cashew nut coating. We also never ever throw food out. Left overs are eaten the next day. Or the day after that. Or the day after that.

Oh and yes I'm from Yorkshire ;-)

I just checked - I paid 114 Euros last May for my year's ADAC membership. This covers
both myself and my wifewith our cars & my trailer PLUS Auslandskrankenschutz ie medical
protection for the whole family when we are holidaying abroad.

ah, i was close. i know my ex had full coverage a few years back and i knew it was a bit over 100 Euro.

Me too - at least the first 5 years

We also cook most of the food ourselves & not much gets thrown away.

Often repeated advice to those moving to Germany: claim to the authorities you DONT HAVE ANY RELIGEON.
Answering this "wrongly" results in a slice being added to your income tax.

I was well off I thought ADAC was only 50! Worse thing is I pay it every year...

Guess it time to sell your children then. Only way to cut costs. Or swap them for a new glider!

Its worse than you think - the eldest is taking the glider off me He got his license last October

Time for a as long as your feet are under my table talk. I blame the German influence, no respect in this culture.

Germany, especially Munich was about 30 years ago a very attractive place to move to, now i'm not so sure with unemployment, high rents, deductions from your salary about 45% and a pittance of a state pension after having paid in about 20% of your salary ( with employers share )all your working life. Subsidy for buying your own home has been stopped also.Granted food and clothing here are still not as expensive as other countries. You mentioned a flat or house with living space up to 150m*, nothing like that can be rented for under €2000 plus heating costs. Take my advice and stay where you are or try New Zealand where I've been told property can still be bought reasonably and jobs are still plentiful.

if not covered by your rent I would say
100-130 for electricity and water per month
another 100 or so for heating with oil

I would disagree with the above poster and say it is possible to get a place (inc heating) for under 2000

That depends a lot on how many years you can claim on previous insurances without accidents. If you can claim 5 years you are fine and probably will pay the less posible. I had a 10 year old 5 door hatch, my insurance was less than 400 euros/year. If you cant claim that, then is problematic. I remember that in my case the insurance would cost me 2200 euros / year if I hadnt those documents.

I recommend a agent that has an announce here in Toytown, he is a nice english speaker person that will do good to get you an acceptable deal. Cant remember his name thou, Kretchsomething

EDIT - http://www.toytowngermany.com/munich/kretz..._insurance.html

car insurance without any previous record of insurance about €1000 I would say (try DIV)