Salary bargaining in Germany

Do the Germans ever offer you a job right after an interview and if so do they bargain about salary right there and then or send out a letter with a proposed salary or prefer you to tell them how much you'd expect at the interview stage?

Thanks for your replies guys.

Thats a job for your trade union. German salaries are generally negotiated on a collective basis. There are exceptions however.

For me , I had to negotiate as they were unsure as to what grouping they would put me in.

You will also probably get a bonus, depending on experience.

first, it´s bad business to offer a job to someone right after an interview, especially in an employer´s market like germany. you give away how much you want a candidate and complicate negotiations. additionally, it is hard to let someone go once they are hired, so expect them to think it over.

but, everything is negotiable. and it depends on the type of job. in außertariflich (white collar) positions negotiation is most definitely possible.

they won´t normally lowball you. they´ll take your age, marital status, education, experience and whether you have kids into account and usually make a fair offer.

there is not so much negotiation room. ask about vacation and christmas bonuses. ask how many monthly pays to expect and also ask for a performance bonus if you are a manager or project leader.

if you are relocating overseas, you should ask about relocation costs, if they will use a relocation service, housing allowance, and whether a company vehicle will be provided.

above all, don´t worry about hurting anyone´s feelings. ask for what you want in clear terms and explain why you want it. it´s just business after all.

it depends: the main thing you want to make sure of is that you are AUSSERTARIFLICH. otherwise, you have ZERO room for manoeuvre since the "tariflich" salaries are determined countrywide, determined on the basis of a strict matrix of age, hierarchy, and whatnot (and usually low by UK standards)

in the aussertariflich world, you negotiate as you would in the UK. but you do not get any of the "standard" extras like christmas bonus or vermoegenswirksame leistungen and the likes.

As far as I can ascertain the only thing that's really taken into consideration is age and dependents. Unfortunately competence doesn't come into it. I know many very competent people who work with total muppets doing exactly the same job with the same responsibility who get paid considerably more then them just because they're older.

My tip: if asked about expected salary just tell them what you currently earn...and lie your bollocks off!

Thanks for the replies so far guys, keep em coming!

I should say that there is an american influence in here as the company and hiring manager are american. I wonder will this make it easier to negotiate. I know they need a person relatively quickly-they told me so. I don't want to screw anyone, I just want to make sure I'm not screwed myself!

On a related note...I expect the contract will be in german (which I don't speak more than a few words of) so will they be obliged to get me a translation or should I shell out some cash and get it translated by a Notary myself (for independence sake)? opinions, ideas?

From experience even at the same levels in our organisation there is a wide range of salaries. Further, as annual increments are based on the last years salary, if you start at a lower base then you get paid less in the following years and are forever playing catch-up even though you do the same work.

I would suggest check with others in the same industry what the average salary is for the same level, pick the highest one and start negotiating from there. Though as a warning it depends how much you need the job (if they say no straight off then you will have a problem). From what I see, at the higher management levels VP and above, everything is negotiable (salary, bonus including contracts with minimum guaranteed bonus going up to a significant percentage of your annual salary) though the benefits offered (company car, pension, insurance) are dependent on the company policy for the level that they hire you at.

You could always ask them if they have fixed salary bands for different levels or do they want you to tell them what you expect. When I was hired, I was given a number and I negotiated from there.

A related question-

If you're giving current salary details to a prospective employer, what checks are in place (if any) to confirm your info is true?

i.e. Is there room for say 20% creativity?

i've been employing the 'creativity' method in a couple of recent discusions... but given the size of my industry (auto consultancy)and the margins involved, pretty much everybody knows what the maximum you can pay someone in a particular position is... so you can't really bullshit that much...

i feel they can't really apply all of that age/dependants crap to white collar workers who are not even germans... i have told them that my financial situation if fundamentally different to any native german's and therefore all of the existing system (pensions/sparvertrags etc) means precisely diddly squat to me... show me the money!

Agree with Noddy. If they try and give you the benefits crap ie. look at the long-term benefits we offer you, etc., all you have to tell them is that it doent matter to you and what matters to you is the money in your bank account at the end of the month.

Also in terms of them being able to check on your current salary - unless they ask you for a copy of your latest payslip or contract, there is no way for them to find out. I dont know if this is the law or not but German Company's tend to not give out salary information for employees.

yes tell them that you are only here for the short term. also mention you have no intention to learn german. then ask them why the shop opening hours are so crap in this country and why the natives are so rude and can't form an orderly queue.

that'll impress 'em

If the company really is offering you a German language contract -
be aware that contracts in German should be looked over by a laywer,
so even though I am bilingual, I should not offer to translate it,
because I have my German language contract looked over by a lawyer.

Don't accept anything that says Werkvertrag.

It's standard in Germany to get a 13. Monatsgehalt.
At Christmas you get twice you salary.

At BMWGRoup, when employed there you get:
13 Monatsgehalt
Vacation Money
150% of your salary just because.

If you get hired in Germany. And know that you are entitled to it.

I dont know what industry you work in but can tell you that standard contracts in Germany in the consulting (strategy, financial) / Investment Banking are:

Monthly Salary + Annual Bonus

At VP Level (Senior Manager) these run between 30% to 100%+ of base depending on performance / deals closed. There is no concept of 13th salary or vacation money as these businesses are run very differently.

The base salary is negotiable depending on experience and contacts you bring to the table.

@ jordigo, don't get me wrong, i chose to come here and work, maybe for the short term, maybe for the long term, i dunno yet...

and i appreciate that there is a system in place to take care of people who are sticking around long term... and they should go ahead and employ them if they want to...

but it seems to me that the good people will go to the good jobs, and at the moment, there ain't a lot of germans around doing my kinda work, thats why i'm here... and if they want to employ me, then it's the cash i'm after...