Church tax

There was a discussion a little while ago about Kindergeld, right or wrong! So now let's have one on Church Taxes. Maybe this was done before, if so, then lets have a fresh look at them, and get opinions from people who might not have been members then!
I for one, always thought religion was free!
Does the Gov't split them equally between the Prodestant Church and the Catholic church?
As a Prodestant by birth, i feel the taxes i give, should go to the Prodestant Church, as i am sure the Catholics would feel the same!

NO! Next question?

you just tell them you are not a member of a church when you register and no church tax is paid. simple

If you believe in the invisible sky giants and want the services of those who cater to those who believe in the invisible sky giants while you live in a land which officially believes in the invisible sky giants, then yes, pay up and shut up.

woof.

The Pope?

If history has taught us anything, it has taught us that this statement is completely and utterly wrong.

That's because in the Good Ole ''U.S.A''(Land of Invisible Sky Believers) you are inundated with Billy Graham's and the rest of his ilk, going on about, Send your donations to us and, ''You will be recieived in Heaven'' 0800-78945887759 Your direct line to God! Send us your money now!
In God We Trust! Ha Ha Ha

No. The Church tax deducted from your salary (8% in Bavaria and Baden-Württemberg, 9% elsewhere) is paid on to the Church to which you are formally registered. As a result the Catholic Church received €4.2 Billion and the Protestant Church €3.7 Billion (2004 figures), representing between 60 and 80% of their total income, the rest from donation and investment. 60-70% goes on paying the clergys' salary. 10% on Church upkeep, 10% in Church building and 10% on schools, education and charitable causes.

I'm with BadDoggie.

Believing in God/Allah/Yahweh/L Ron Hubbard is free, but you've gotta open your wallet if you want your name inscribed on the Great Scroll of Believers, German Edition.

I don't pay it, if I do attend a service anywhere, i will drop some money into either the collection plate or the donation box by the door.

Indeed. Religion can even cost your life

The history I'm referring to goes back far further than the "Good Ole U.S.A.". It includes it, to be sure, but there are SO many more examples in the story of man.

By the way, that phone number will get you Accelerated Information & Document Filing, Inc., but I'm sure they'll take your money as well.

Germany gives me a great argument to use with my Southern Baptist relatives back home who think that many problems would be solved "if only there were more God in the schools" / "children could pray in schools again".

I tell them that German schoolkids have religion education classes at school, in the faith of their parents' choosing.

And that most Germans my age (late-20's) are, at most, Christmas and Easter churchgoers.

Therefore, church+state = less interest in religion

My boyfriend, by the way, is registered as a Lutheran, and pays his church tax without complaint, as he thinks they do a good job on senior homes, kindergartens and community counseling. I believe he has darkened the door of our town's Lutheran church precisely twice since he moved here from Hannover. He has nothing against people who de-register because they don't believe; he resents the ones who will eventually want services from the church (weddings, senior home) who stop paying church tax purely for financial reasons.

Then again, he had a fit when he found out that my former landlady was not reporting my rent for her taxes - "the old hag is stealing from all of us!"

Class I filing status and a 45 hour workweek will do that to a German guy, I guess...

i don't have a problem with Church Tax and just paid my tax for 2005. I am the last one in my family to pay it. to give a short answer why I pay: the money gets allocated to munich parishes (to be precise, my local parish) and i see it as a donation. i am indirectly supporting their services to my neighbourhood.
considering that no one is forced to pay that tax, i don't understand why it is such a big deal.

I don't pay it and I agree that Religion should be free!

And priests should live on air and the buildings should maintain themselves, and the kindergartens and old folks' homes should be staffed by cheerful volunteers...

where I come from there are no church taxes and people still donate money. This system works perfectly. What I do not understand here is that if you are catholic then you HAVE to pay the tax otherwise you are not recognised as a catholic!

I don't believe in it. I am glad I am getting out before I have to pay it!

I am a C 'n' E churchgoer and I do donate when I am there. I use their services, I pay for them.

In Canada I have volunteered to raise funds for various associations, bake casseroles to feed the homeless at shelters, etc. I feel that here the attitude of volunteering is that I would be taking someone's job away, and that because I am not a "Diplom casserole maker", I would not have the adequate training to work at a homeless shelter.

I'm not saying I'm an angel - absolutely not! I did those things because they made me feel good about myself and my community. It's all about self gratification, really.

I would much rather give my money and time out of my own free will than having it forcefully ripped from my paycheque.

What are you some kind of cheap skate? Want the best of both worlds but don't want to cough up?You want to be a catholic and you want to avail of their services, pay for it.

You don't need to "get out of it". You don't have to pay it in the first place. The German system does not accept CofE as a recognised religion, because they can't accept a mere mortal (The Queen) can be head of the Church.

haha sorry YL6! Christmas and Easter, I meant. I'm officially Catholic.

The Pope is head of the Catholic Church and I don't think anyone doubts he is mortal. Must be another reason.

You are mixing religeon with social services the same as the German state does. I pay for kindergartens and old people homes. But I dont want to give ANY money to nutters who lie to children!

Anything I was forced to do at school against my will = not interested now. Religion is a special case because I've also thought about it over the years and decided most of what's said by 'religious leaders', be it the pope, the bishops, Rabbis, Islamic clerics, George Bush, Osama Bin Laden, or anyone else makes me want to puke for its utter hypocrisy.


I'd like to get married in church because it's a nice building and would be happy to pay them a reasonable rent for the day to contribute to the upkeep of the building. I don't believe in any invisible sky being. In Germany you can only marry or have a funeral in church if you pay the tax year after year, which I consider unreasonable. It is, however, a nice example of how the Catholic church uses its continuing influence on the German government to demand tithes, a practice that has kept it a strong organisation serving its own best interest over the years.

From what I understand (correct me if I'm wrong), churches in these other countries are highly subsidized by the government. I don't think they can survive off the plate donations.

I'd much rather the churches be subsidized by those who use them than by those who don't.

Why bother getting married at all?

agree but i think it doesn't hold against the argument that a lot of churches in bavaria or austria attract tourists. these tourists usually don't pay to get in and if they do, these fees don't cover the cost of the church. additionally these tourist spend money at local businesses ie restaurants, cafes and hotels. churches can be cultural heritage where not the individual benefits from but everybody.

EDIT: not sure my point comes across well but i hope you get my drift.

no I get it. That's an interesting point. Somewhat along the lines of the Brits subsidizing the Royal Family because they bring in revenue from tourism.

Isn't that the FIRST think all of us kanacken learn about living in Germany, that on any form your are NOT of any religion?

It's weird with the church being a service provider.

I saw a job advert last week for a social worker, working with rent boys.
Funded by Munich City Council but the actual service provider was the church.
They wanted someone who was a social worker, had experience of street work, of drop in centres, had experience of male sexual health issues, had experience of working in a socially unnacceptable milleu and preferably spoke some east European languages. All pretty much what you'd expect for the job . Then came the last pont: Someone who shares our faith.

Years ago I taught in a Catholic school in outback australia in a town called Broome. We had a German Bishop! Ihave never ever worked in a school with so much money and such beautiful facilities. This was not funded by the Catholic education office (oka not all of it) but by the people of Germany. the Bishop used to come back to here every now and again to top up money. He also had a private jet and wore loads and loads of gold!!!

Now I have a cousin in the seminary in Rome and APPARENTLY the feeling is that they dont agree with this church tax business. Or at least that is what he says!!!

Kereth

BTW we dont pay it!

What to fly from the Vaterland to Oz??? Get out of it!!

No it was a small jet that he used to get around the Kimberlies. I kid you not!

Bit off topic here, but wouldn't you need a plane to fly around Australia? Ive seen the Flying Doctors..I know my shit

You mean: the Bishop used to come back to here every now and again to top up money. He also had a private jet and wore loads and loads of gold, this was not funded by the Catholic education office (oka not all of it) but by the people of Germany !!!

Anyone that has been to the Vatican knows that the Catholic church is probably the richest corporation on earth.. and I mean corporation.

I personally don't care about Church tax.. and as long as I never have to pay it I will continue to not care..

No, funded by the people in Germany who believe in invisible sky gods. Again, I don't care.

No fucking way do those thieving lying fuckers deserve our cash...has anyone been to the Vatican? Does the Pope really need gold taps and furnishings? Until the churches actually use the money for the good as per what they preach they can fuck right off. People who pay this are being scammed by one of the best money making schemes in the world. It's disgusting. Fight the power and free the weed!!

Actually there was a flying doctors programme based on him as he was an awful pilot. He used to say the Hail Mary as he was landing (along with his passengers) the Kimberlies is the largest diocese in the world. It speads from Broome to Kununurra and inland capturing all the remote Aboriginal locations. In the wet season you cannot reach some of these places ... so yes a plane was in order!

I don't mind paying it. I prefer it to seeing the pastor of my church here sometimes going without pay for 2 months because there is no money and the beautiful old church struggling to keep up maintenance because there just isn't any cash. I am enjoying the facilities when I need to, so I really don't mind making a contribution to keep these places...I know many people aren't religious and in that case you probably aren't a member of any church/religion and don't have to pay the tax anyway, but for me...when everything is awful and I feel completely lost sometimes a church (any church at all) is the place I like to go to. It makes me feel better. I also found the English speaking church in Frankfurt a great help when I was there and it was something familiar and a chance to meet people who were also away from home. That's my opinion on it anyway. The non-catholic churches with a non-rich congregation who can donate tons really struggle financially here in the UK and thats not the case in Germany.

That's not true. It's only the non-catholic churches that are in the main Protestant Group that get their hands on the money.
The independents don't get a penny but their members are suposedly obliged to pay into the system.

(Though I'd pay the happy clappies just down from me a fortune if they'd stop their bloody happy singing on a Sunday morning)

The question of church tax is pretty simple. You don't like it, you don't pay it. There is no need to tell people who do believe that the Church is a big con and is only out to get your money / invisible sky gods etc etc, as frankly its insulting. Most people who do believe are not feeble minded and have chosen to believe in their church. THe church needs money to be run, and taxes provide a means of doing so.

Agreed. It's not a tax that everyone HAS to pay. If you are an atheist there is no obligation. As I said, I am not and it's something which is very important to me and so I really don't mind paying it at all.

Re no churches here being 'poor' - all I know is that the church I am a member of here struggles incredibly. We almost lost the church building which for many of us is a safe haven that we've known since childhood. Thankfully we managed to negotiate well...at least for the next 7 years.

Definite Atheists aren't obliged to pay.
But even people who regard themselves as nominally Christian ARE supposed to pay whether or not they particiapte in the church

It'd be great if the bible bashing fuckwits that come to my door and stop me in the street would take the same advice and leave me alone and not preach to me, I find it insulting.

nominally christian...that's a funny one.

and the relevance that has to Church tax ?

It applies to a huge proportion of the UK populkation.
You are obviously a comitted Christian, fair enough.

For the majority of the UK population who have yet to make the concious step of being atheist or agnostic, nominal Christian is a valid description I think.

I would never generalise, so please try not to too. Not every religious/spiritual person "bible'bashes" or harasses people on the street. NOT AT ALL.

Some of those Mormon lads ARE quite cute though innit.

But what exactly does being nominally christian mean?! Identifying yourself with it, but not really?! Keeping your options open?!

I don't know, I personally can't imagine it.. if I believe in God then I do and that's that, no?! I know a lot of people who are multi-faith which is a concept I can identify with, however being nominally christian or nominally anything...I'm not sure of what that actually means for a person?!