July and August traditionally see a mass exodus of foreigners out of Munich. These nomadic types either return to their homelands or move on to pastures new. Then in September and October there will be influx of fresh blood. If you're one of the folks that is leaving this Summer then you probably have to deal with terminating the rental agreement on your apartment. If so, you should be aware of a law which was recently confirmed through the German courts. It states that no matter what is written on your rental agreement, you are NOT obliged to pay for redecorations unless they are absolutely necessary. This is a victory for common sense. In the past landlords have demanded that outgoing tenants completely repaint the walls even though there is not a speck of dirt on them. ...
[img]http://www.toytowngermany.com/munich/rental_contract.jpg[/img]
Often the rental contract on an apartment will state that redecorations must be carried out after a certain number of years of use, or on moving out of the apartment. The figures usually given are three years for bathrooms and kitchens, five years for bedrooms and living rooms, and seven years for other less-used rooms. Such clauses, if written into your contract, are not legally binding. If the building does not need redecorating then there is no obligation to do it.
If you read German you can see the PDF file detailing the June 2004 court decision: Aktenzeichen VIII ZR 361/03
German word of the day: Schönheitsreparaturen (meaning: redecorations)
For information (in German) about your rights as a tenant, see Mietrecht FAQ, or Mietrecht für Mieter & Vermieter, or the local Munich pages of the Münchener Mieterschutzverein
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Apartment redecoration laws
Legal obligations on moving out
That is the best news I've read in weeks. Still glad that I will be backed up by my Mietverein.
Ha! Only last Friday I was grumbling about having to repaint my walls after being in the apartment for more than 5 years.
In your face, Mr. Vermieter!
In your face, Mr. Vermieter!
If it turns out that you do need to repaint, and you don't want to do the work yourself, then Bavaria Service and Maintenance will be glad to help out. They are official TT advertisers and are known to do a good professional job.
This story is published in today's AZ (16.08.04). Hats off to TT for being one week ahead of the local print press! ;-)
What if you didn't know about this new law and have recently signed a contract stating the redecoration stuff after so many years and also that, upon moving out, you will paper the walls with woodchip and paint them white?
Can´t see how this would help most expatriates. If the landlord still demands redecorating, you would have to go to court or you´d never see your deposit again.
First Post:
@Freising
This is what the Mieterverein are for, stick them on your LandLord..
Mieterverein München
Sonnenstr. 10
Tel: 0 89/55 21 43-0
Fax: 0 89/55 45 54
Email: hausmeister@mieterverein-muenchen.de
QUOTE (Editor Bob @ Aug 9 2004, 10:26 am) 
It states that no matter what is written on your rental agreement, you are NOT obliged to pay for redecorations unless they are absolutely necessary
QUOTE
Such clauses, if written into your contract, are not legally binding
@Freising
This is what the Mieterverein are for, stick them on your LandLord..
Mieterverein München
Sonnenstr. 10
Tel: 0 89/55 21 43-0
Fax: 0 89/55 45 54
Email: hausmeister@mieterverein-muenchen.de
Is this right - if I leave my apartment after 1 year and 1 month, I don't have to paint the flat unless necessary? Who decides whether it is necessary or not?
I just got a free second to call the Mieterverein and they said it DOES depend on your contract, and as each contract is different, I should make an appointment with them so they can take a look and let me know.
We leave in summer after living in this house for 1yr and 8 months.
Today my landlord says the whole house has to painted. The walls are white and except for a few patches (here and there caused by finger prints ) which I do agree have to be repainted the rest of the house is quite good.
Am I obligated to paint the whole house. He says he knows of a guy who can paint for- now hold your breath 3500Euros. Accdg to him if we go through others it may be cost us twice as much.
He knows i dont speak german, have a husband who is constantly traveling
Is my landlord trying to rip me off ?
PLEASE PLEASE HELP
Today my landlord says the whole house has to painted. The walls are white and except for a few patches (here and there caused by finger prints ) which I do agree have to be repainted the rest of the house is quite good.
Am I obligated to paint the whole house. He says he knows of a guy who can paint for- now hold your breath 3500Euros. Accdg to him if we go through others it may be cost us twice as much.
He knows i dont speak german, have a husband who is constantly traveling
Is my landlord trying to rip me off ?
PLEASE PLEASE HELP
Try getting in touch with Huntcrest, who advertise on here and seem to get good reviews, maybe they can give you a quote.
3500 is bloody diabolical and he is more than likely taking a cut off this.Al depends on the size of the job but that price is extortionate.Know of someone that can do it a lot cheaper.
3500 is bloody diabolical and he is more than likely taking a cut off this.Al depends on the size of the job but that price is extortionate.Know of someone that can do it a lot cheaper, and he does speak German
Is the 3500 Euro more or less than your deposit?
Hi
Would you be able to give me the name of this person.
A friend of mine mentioned that the laws have changed recently and that it is no longer necessary to get the whole house painted if we have been living in it for a certain period (dont know the number ) of time
I am so frustrated - the landlord seems like a nice guy but i guess when it comes down to money it is a different story.
Thanks for your help
Would you be able to give me the name of this person.
A friend of mine mentioned that the laws have changed recently and that it is no longer necessary to get the whole house painted if we have been living in it for a certain period (dont know the number ) of time
I am so frustrated - the landlord seems like a nice guy but i guess when it comes down to money it is a different story.
Thanks for your help
3500 is less than my deposit
U are thinking whether he is trying to take away my deposit ?
We have kept the house in immaculate condition but i do feel that he is going to nitpick on little things knowingfully that i have no recourse
U are thinking whether he is trying to take away my deposit ?
We have kept the house in immaculate condition but i do feel that he is going to nitpick on little things knowingfully that i have no recourse
No. Actually I was thinking don't do anything and let him keep the deposit.
You may need to break out the video recorder and digital camera to document the move out condition in addition to a third party observer for your move out inspection. He may be a nice guy, but he could be trying to improve his rental property at your expense. You should protect yourself if you will be moving overseas - since he will not refund your deposit until after you leave. Read between the lines.
Mieterverein München
Sonnenstr. 10
Tel: 0 89/55 21 43-0
Fax: 0 89/55 45 54
Email: hausmeister@mieterverein-muenchen.de
You may need to break out the video recorder and digital camera to document the move out condition in addition to a third party observer for your move out inspection. He may be a nice guy, but he could be trying to improve his rental property at your expense. You should protect yourself if you will be moving overseas - since he will not refund your deposit until after you leave. Read between the lines.
Mieterverein München
Sonnenstr. 10
Tel: 0 89/55 21 43-0
Fax: 0 89/55 45 54
Email: hausmeister@mieterverein-muenchen.de
Why do you say he refund my deposit only after i leave
What are the different ways i can protect myself
Sounds like yet another German landlord taking advantage of a non-native speaker.
Depending on the terms and conditions of your contract, and as you have not been in the apartment for 3 years you may not have to pay a cent.
Some English info here (but not sure how up to date it is):
Deutsche Post Tenancy Law
And selected excerpts:
I would first try to find a German colleague to go through your contract if at all possible or consider contacting one of the lawyers that advertise on this site.
Depending on the terms and conditions of your contract, and as you have not been in the apartment for 3 years you may not have to pay a cent.
Some English info here (but not sure how up to date it is):
Deutsche Post Tenancy Law
And selected excerpts:
QUOTE
Cosmetic repairs --> Setting termed renovations
Clauses which require the tenant to renovate once a certain time period has elapsed are effectual:
Result: The tenant will not have to renovate if s/he moves within two and a half years of moving in. If the tenant moves after four years s/he will have to wallpaper and paint the kitchen, bathroom and shower.
The entire apartment excepting the store room must be renovated if the tenant moves out after five years. The fact that the apartment (in its original condition) was unrenovated and that the tenant then completely renovated the premises does not matter here. Nor is it of consequence that the apartment was newly renovated and in top condition. In the eyes of the courts, cosmetic repairs made to an unrenovated apartment at the lease's begin qualify as "voluntary". This holds true unless explicitly stipulated otherwise in the contract as such: "The tenant is committed to renovate the apartment upon occupancy." It is then unnecessary to renovate after five years or upon moving out.
If the tenant is required to renovate the apartment completely then s/he must wallpaper and paint both walls and ceilings. Radiators and woodwork, i.e. inner doors, windows and the interiors of outside doors must also be painted. As far as the courts are concerned, it is important to determine the actual necessity for this kind of varnishing/paint work. It is absurd, for example, that radiators must be painted every three or five years.
Contract clauses which assert shorter terms for renovations than those presented above are invalid. In this case the tenant need not renovate at all.
Clauses which require the tenant to renovate once a certain time period has elapsed are effectual:
- Every three year: Kitchen, bathroom and shower.
- Every five years: Living room, bedrooms, hallways, entrance hall and toilets.
- Every seven years: Adjunct rooms (store room, for example)
Result: The tenant will not have to renovate if s/he moves within two and a half years of moving in. If the tenant moves after four years s/he will have to wallpaper and paint the kitchen, bathroom and shower.
The entire apartment excepting the store room must be renovated if the tenant moves out after five years. The fact that the apartment (in its original condition) was unrenovated and that the tenant then completely renovated the premises does not matter here. Nor is it of consequence that the apartment was newly renovated and in top condition. In the eyes of the courts, cosmetic repairs made to an unrenovated apartment at the lease's begin qualify as "voluntary". This holds true unless explicitly stipulated otherwise in the contract as such: "The tenant is committed to renovate the apartment upon occupancy." It is then unnecessary to renovate after five years or upon moving out.
If the tenant is required to renovate the apartment completely then s/he must wallpaper and paint both walls and ceilings. Radiators and woodwork, i.e. inner doors, windows and the interiors of outside doors must also be painted. As far as the courts are concerned, it is important to determine the actual necessity for this kind of varnishing/paint work. It is absurd, for example, that radiators must be painted every three or five years.
Contract clauses which assert shorter terms for renovations than those presented above are invalid. In this case the tenant need not renovate at all.
QUOTE
Court Decisions --> Renovation terms
It is valid to make renovation terms obligatory as follows: Kitchen, bathrooms, shower every three years; living room and bedrooms, hallways, entrance hall and toilets every five years and all other rooms every seven years (BGH VIII ARZ 9/86).
It is valid to make renovation terms obligatory as follows: Kitchen, bathrooms, shower every three years; living room and bedrooms, hallways, entrance hall and toilets every five years and all other rooms every seven years (BGH VIII ARZ 9/86).
I would first try to find a German colleague to go through your contract if at all possible or consider contacting one of the lawyers that advertise on this site.
Legally you are not obliged to paint the apartment. And when the landlord quotes a sum of 3500 EUR for painting (unless you live in a big villa), he is taking advantage of you. I am pretty sure he wants to hold back part of the deposit.
QUOTE (jaynes @ Apr 16 2008, 11:00 am)
What are the different ways i can protect myself
Do you have legal insurance? If not, contact Mietverein as suggested.
It all depends what condition the place is like.If there are big hand prints all over the place and looks generally dirty then you are going to have to paint.the link speculates in my eyes that forcing you to paint after certain time periods is not allowed.
Thanks everybody for your inputs.
I think i will become a member of mietverein (even tho i have to be a member for the next 2 yrs) and show them my rental agreement.
There are very few spots that need to be patched up. The rest of the house is immaculate.
I will also try to get some quotes from local painters and try to compare their rates
Does anybody know of any painters
Mik do you have any recommendations
Appreciate all your suggestions
I think i will become a member of mietverein (even tho i have to be a member for the next 2 yrs) and show them my rental agreement.
There are very few spots that need to be patched up. The rest of the house is immaculate.
I will also try to get some quotes from local painters and try to compare their rates
Does anybody know of any painters
Mik do you have any recommendations
Appreciate all your suggestions
Read your P.M.'s
I am looking to move out of my apartment after 8 years there and after reading the thread here it looks like I could get caught for renovating the whole place, is that correct?
And does renovating mean putting in new fixtures and a new floor as well?
Sent you a P.M.
When I moved out of my last apartment the landlord tried to get me to renovate, even though we had only lived in it 3 years, so I set my lawyer on him. It transpires that after 7 years they can make you renovate it, however what exactly renovate covers is, I believe, open to interpretation.
Basically the renovations are that the place you are leaving is supposed to be in a reasonable living condition.All clauses in a rent contract stating that renovations have to done by proffessional companies is not allowed.Even had a person that had it in his rent contract that stated he was only allowed to use a ceratin brand of paint.Illegal, and when i did the handover with this person the landlord backed off.Got all the Kaution off the landlord by stating paragraphs and showing him previous court rulings.German system, i used it against them.
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