Vodaphone / Siemens mobile phone nightmare

OK, so I signed a new contract with Vodafone last year and got a “cheap“ phone.
Six months later, the battery goes, the display goes and the keypad goes. So I take it back to the shop, they send it in for repair and it should take about a week.

4 weeks later, still no phone and yes, you’ve guessed it, it’s a Siemens.

Vodafone don’t give a toss and say I have to keep paying the contract with them.

According to the shop, Siemens and Benq are passing the buck to each other.
The place where my phone has gone for repair is overloaded and it would be a logistical nightmare to try and get details and no, they can’t get Vodafone to offer me say a new phone.

I’ve been borrowing a phone for the last month but I don’t like it and I have to give it back now anyway. The shop said they MIGHT be able to lend me a phone from next week.

I’ve given them a week to find a solution but basically their only position is to hope that the phone comes back. I’ve asked them to push to the other companies involved and/or come up with a solution but I’m not convinced they are going to do anything.

Any ideas?

Cancel the direct debit, you cannot be held responsible to pay for a service that is not available to you.

F#%cking Vodafone... don't even get me started. Lying bunch of bastards...

Mine's fine, as is my DT contract and move ( twice )

I already had the contract discussion in the shop.
Of course I got the phone together with the new contract but its separate contracts.
They fact that I've no phone doesn't give me the right to cancel the contract apparently...though I said a court might see that differently...

Just think how much money its saving you not being able to phone anyone!

Have you tried the vodafone hotline? The shops are quite independant from Vodafone as can be seen by different service from different shops.

Vodafone hotline not interested.

Easier said then done.. Most banks will not cancel the Direct Withdrawl bacause you signed the contract saying
it was OK for the other company to do so. I and many others have run into this problem before, mostly with Handy/DSL Providers and Gym's.
Contact your bank and ask, but don't get your hopes up.

I asked (when I was told that I had to sign a 2 year contract) how long the guarantee lasts on the phone & what happens if it doesn't work during that period. I was told the phone carries a guarentee for the length of the contract & if it goes wrong they'll fix it! Unlikely but that's was I was told & that's good enough for me. If they want you to use their service then in my mind they need to provide you with equipment fit for the purpose. If it's less than a year tell them you want a phone that works, want it now & will not wait for it to get repaired otherwise they have broken the contract & you'll cancel the direct debit. Just cause chaos & don't take any shit . ...

Also, if you don't get any luck & end up paying for a contract that you cannot use, change it to the lowest tariff don't forget

The 1 week is out of date, sorry to tell you. That was how long it took for a Siemens phone to be repaired when the Siemens phones actually still belonged to Siemans, not Benq. (I had a Siemans phone before, and it actually only took a week.)
I have a Siemens phone, and I sent it to Siemens-Benq for repair directly. They said that because of the bancruptcy they have laid off so many employees that they are way understaffed, and it would take 10 weeks for it to be repaired. Mine was been gone for 6 weeks now.

Basically, there is nothing you can do, except not get a Siemens/Benq cellphone in the future.

Get the phone from the store. If it's only been 4 weeks, expect it to take another 6 weeks!

Oh, and I don't think Vodafone is actually responsible in this case. They may be required to give you another phone for the time yours is gone, but I am not even sure about that, but they are not breaching their side of the contract so you can't breach yours.

Oh, another thing: has it been more or less than 6 months? You only get a 6 month warranty on the battery.

Legally you actually have two contracts with Vodafone. The first is a contract for the service, the second a purchase contract for the phone. They are not related. If the phone is not usable you cannot withdraw or suspend the service, or simply stop paying or you could be held liable for breach of that contract.

As a consumer, however you have enshrined rights as far as the purchase goes. Vodafone sold you the phone and are legally responsible for the 2 year guarantee they are required to provide with it. The phone has been returned for repair. It must be returned or replaced with a reasonable time. 2-4 weeks is reasonable. You are beyond that. There's no sense in arguing with salespeople - their main motivation is to sell you another one and earn commission. The time has come to send a letter. Request return or replacement within a set time (1 week would be reasonable) or you will take further action. Further action after that time would be to demand a refund of money (NOT advisable if the phone only cost €1 in the first place!), a new replacement, or, at least, a loan unit while they sort out the original problem. If they don't respond to that take legal action (referring to § 439 BGB, I think).

In no way are Vodafone responsible. They are your service provider, they don't make the phone, so unless things start to look up with Benq-Seimens, you're stuffed. There's no point going to Vodafone, as it's not there problem.

Okay, a little update:

I just called Siemens-Benq to ask about the status of my cellphone. They said it is already repaired and processed and will be sent out next week.
Today it has been 6 weeks since I sent it to them.

And seeing as I was already on the phone with them, I asked them about how long it might take for yours. They said, it depends on what is wrong with it, if they need to order any parts, but they have a new proprietor now and have been able to catch up a little with their backlog, as they have some more staff now.

I suggest you just call Siemans-Benq about it. If you have a Siemens customer number (something like E001234567) have that ready, or maybe your IMEI. (Or maybe your name and address works as well.) The number is 01805 33 32 26, costs 12c/min from a landline phone.

Vodafone sold the phone to MT therefore they ARE responsible! defo as YL6 said, one contract for the phone line & one when you buy the phone. (Same as if you buy anything else)

Yeah, they are responsible, but ultimately it is Siemens-Benq that is repairing the phone, so nothing Vodafone can do to make them do it faster.
You have a right to a replacement, but I am not sure after how many weeks.

Is that YorkshireLad's opinion on what the term reasonable means in legal context or an official definition?

Edit: Anyway, if you wanted to make a claim to a replacement, you have to set Vodafone a time limit, saying you will not accept your phone if they take more than 2 more weeks, and then you can request the replacement.
However, I am not sure that Vodafone would be the right company to send this to, and sending one to Siemens-Benq is pointless as they are bancrupt, and I am pretty sure that legally you do not even have a claim to your Herstellergarantie after a Insolvenz has been declared.

I gave the shop a verbal "frist" of a week from today.
If nothing happens I'll go down the BGB / letter route.

MANY thanks for the replies so far.

Though not hving a phone adds some quality to the evening in that my ex can't check which pubs I am in...

It's a legally accepted opinion for the repair of consumer goods under guarantee. The law (BGB) states "reasonable time" The courts have determined 2-4 weeks to be acceptable as "reasonable" - that's enough time to send the equipment away, evaluate the problem, resource any spare parts, repair and return, or alternatively simply declare non-repairable and replace. Once the consumer feels that a reasonable time has been exceeded, then he/she can give notice for a further response to the problem, but again, within a "reasonable time", but in this case, much shorter, e.g. a week.
Legally, as the supplier, Vodafone are the only people from whom to seek redress. It's not your (the consumer) problem that the manufacturer is in bankruptcy or even exists. It's Vodafone's responsibility to sort out the problem and fix or replace the unit with an equivalent model. There is one issue, however - it could be argued that their liability is limited to simply refunding the cost, which in this case might not reflect the actual value of the phone, as I presume it was part of a subsidised deal. I think in law this would not be considered an acceptable compromise, as it is clear the phone is subsidised from your longer term contract.

Just FYI, I got my phone back today... the report says "sorry for the delay". Oh well, seems like it is working fine again. Hope you get yours back soon as well.

It's been almost 11 weeks away for repair now!

The shop did FINALLY give me a lend out phone while it is away but it is not MY phone, I don't like the way it works and I am hardly using it.
All the while paying a flat monthly rate to Vodafone. Great huh.

Anyone know after how long I can expect them to offer me a replacement?

How many letters have you written to them?

I haven't written to them. I had a formal letter ready to give them after 6 weeks but they gave me a lend out phone.
But it's been ANOTHER five weeks since then.

They haven't called me to say it is back and if I enquire to them they are going to tell me they don't know anything.

Mariposa's issue cleared itself up after 10 weeks so I was hoping mine would but...

What a Coincidence!

SEVENTEEN weeks after I sent my phone away for repair my patience finally snapped and I wrote them a polite but formal (registered) letter demanding a solution within two weeks.

PURELY by chance, eight days later, my phone is ready to be picked up!

I was at a Vodafone shop yesterday to get a Blackberry wiped and the shop owner had no idea how to do it. *
His assistant (not blond but showing her navel and pelvic bones) messed around with a cell phone, its battery and a SIM card for three minutes and then asked him how to put the card in.
*Security settings > wipe handheld, as I learned from our IT department

My boss gave me a BenQ phone to enter various numbers for a visiting attorney. I nominate BenQ phones as most eligible for "How far can you throw your cell-phone" contests. Light, comfortable size, utterly crap.

A coincidence that it came back or a coincidence that you finally took advice offered here 3 months ago and it actually worked?

Oh wow, that sucks. Cannot believe yours took so much longer than mine. Glad you got it back though.

I'm a busy boy YL6. I'd been meaning to take action since 10 weeks expired but was tied down.
Let's see what they say when i pick it up tomorrow or what state the phone is in...

I'd just ask around and buy a s/hand phone from a friend, something good mind you Nokia or Sony maybe even Motorola, it's a bast that the phone gone tits up but there it's not like you'll be able to make the mistake of buying another one is it?

Stick to one of the better brands not much can go wrong or pay an insurance that will ensure promp repair or replacement.

I also had problems with Vodaphone, to make a long story short, I won in the end but not before they had to call the police to have me removed from the store. I know most people hate to do this stuff, but if you really want a solution, go in, say you will not leave till you have a replacement phone, and start telling customers who come in about your problem. don't let them touch you, be firm but calm, never scream, if you have a friend with balls have them go with you, if you don't (most germans are pansies about this stuff), send me a message I will go, I love messing with these assholes. Eventually they must either give you a phone or call the cops. Companies only get away with this crap cause ppl don't stand up to them.

My 2 Cents.

So after EIGHTEEN weeks I go to pick up my repaired phone.
The bloke goes to hand it to me and I ask to see it working before I accept it.

He turns it on and…..does it work?

DOES IT SHITE!

The display is totally non-functional, one of the THREE failures I sent it in with.

So he’s like, it’ll have to go back to the repair centre. And I’m like I am NOT waiting another eighteen weeks. And he’s like there is no other service. And I’m like I’ve waited FAR longer than can be expected of me already. And he’s like, but I’ve lent you an alternative phone and I’m like, it’s a “klump�. And he’s like that he is caught between Vodafone and Siemens-BenQ and I’m like I don’t care, I want a solution and that solution is NOT to wait another eighteen weeks.

I asked him how long he needs to come with an alternative and he said he’s going to call me. He’s well into the two week frist now.

I am not clear on this but I have heard that if the item has to be repaired more than 3 times during guarantee period, the manufacturer is obliged to replace it. Probably someone else can point to the specific law.

i don't know if this applies to all faults, but there is a vodafone service centre upstairs from the shop at marienplatz - 1st floor of the same place where cafe glockenspiel is. i had a problem with my motorolla and i took it there (after they threatened to send it away), they rebooted the software and i got it back an hour later working fine. may not work for all problems but worth a shot.

and yes, vodafone in this country are absolute c***s

nah its not the software, its the phone that is physically f***ed which is the responsibility of Siemens-BenQ which no longer exists.
I asked Vodafone for help about 3 months ago and they said they were not responsible. Well apart from taking my money each month for services I can't use.

I admire people that actually manage to get somewhere complaining here in Germany, I've learned the hard way a couple of times, and now am just paranoically obsessed with not signing pieces of paper (some companies, not phone companies, forged signatures even) I managed to get out of one thing that I was conned into (by Vodafone) and I signed up for a pension scheme which I then cancelled, three years later I got a call from the Finanzamt wanting to know where my tax returns were, as I was part of this so-called company, I said I bloody well ain't and that was the last I heard of it.

I'd just give that phone up as a bad job, there must be loads of s/hand 6230i's knocking about for next to fook all, it'll cost less in running about and hassle by the time you get a result if ever from your friendly local shop

But you can use the services you are paying for. They are not dependant on the phone they provided. They could of course refund the purchase price of the phone in full, and by now you would certainly be entitled to a refund, but what sort of phone are you going to buy for the €1 or less that you paid for it??

I don't want the €10 back for the phone, I want a phone that works.
Verbraucherzentrale next week for me I think.

wish you well but I reckon you'll be lucky if you get a solution that you find suitable. I you were short before a renewal (>3 months) they'd let you have a new phone now.

all the best

I haven't made any bad experience with Vodafone. Hmmm. And my phone was working fine again when I got it back.

How long till your contract expires? You might be able to get a new phone that is subsidized and talk them into giving it to you cheaper for all the hassle you've had to go through for nothing.

I've a year to go on the contract.
I might ask for some kind of unual deal that they set aside the contract that has been running for a year and we start a new 2 year contract with new phone now.

It's not a case of what you want, but what you are entitled to. Morally, I agree, you should get the phone repaired or replaced, but legally their liability is simply to replacement or refund - their choice. If they decide to give you €10 and walk away from the problem then they can do that. Bear this in mind during your cage rattling. Also bear in mind that the Verbraucherzentrale will want to see all the letters you have written to them to support your claim.

Yeah, well what you should definitely be able to do is extend the contract now (by two years) and get a new phone. My brother extended his contract 6 months before it expired. But then you'd have another three years to go, so I am not sure if you wanna do that.

According to the BGB as you I'm entitled to a repair and I've waitied longer than the "reasonable" amount of time that have to repair it.
But beucasue the 2 contracts, subsidised phone and netowrk service) are sperate they can siply refund the subsidised price of the handset and leave me standing there with a year to run on the contract.

Hope they don't do that. Bastards.

If they can do that, am I being foolhard refusing to have the phone sent into repair again?

Well, seeing as it's not working anyway, you might as well have it sent in again. Not like it's of any use to you right now.

Well it's at the shop. We'll see what deal they offer me when they ring up...