Receiving and passing on a fake Euro note

what a nightmare day i had . Last night caught a taxi home with GF paid the taxi driver with a 50 euro note . he gave me 40 change . Next day went to a shop to buy something paid with a 20 euro note that the taxi driver gave me last night . then the shop owner said it was fake phoned the police who took me to the station grilled me for a couple hours tried to make confess that i on purpose passed on the fake note . then took me back to my flat search it then my cellar , my car. Read me my rights then said criminal proceedings might follow . probably another interview will come in a few days with there chief .If they do take me to court means i will have a criminal record if found guilty. This was the first time i have received a fake note . one word of advice never pay a taxi driver with a 50 euro note

Do Taxi drivers have to log in with base where they are going? if so can you not contact them to find out which driver it was?

God, that's awful. I'm so sorry. Must have been a right ordeal. What state did they leave your flat in?

They're accusing you of knowing it was fake and deliberately trying to pass it on, right? Not being involved in anything dodgy yourself? Will they be tracing the taxi driver?

good point i tell the police chief at the next meeting ok my gf said the taxi driver was not german more from a arab country . i also think he heard us speaking english so thought he could get away with passing fake note to us

He (or rather the police) definetly could, whatever it would be worth.

I'd never go buy in that shop again tho. The guy could have known what trouble he would cause you. He could have just told you and demand you pay with a different note...

And yes, it helps to be able to spot faked notes, i mostly do. If i dont, the cashier probably wont either.

Which shop was it?

Bit of a pointless exercise from the Police for 20€. Obviously from resulting questioning and searches, you arent passing on illegal notes. So why say you may get charged is beyond me?

As for the shop owner, I do see his point of view. What if you were deliberately using forged notes? It would be irresponsible of the owner to let you walk off and use the note on some other unsuspecting shop.

Taxi driver, I dont think he is much to blame either, yes it would be easy to track him down, from the 'X' amount of passengers he has dropped off, there is no way to trace where the note came from. You said it was late, so its likely that the driver did not spot the fake either. After all you didnt check the notes when they were given to you.

All that aside, I hope it all gets sorted quickly and cleanly for you.

maybe a shot in the dark but if the driver has tried to pass a few notes out then maybe it could be traced back to him.

generaly you find that the person passing it on to you either...

A. has a fist-full that he has paid for and is trying to make his proffit
B. has been passed one himself and wants rid of it
C. didnt know he was passing it on.

not that i would know anything about buying fake notes you understand

How often do you get fake notes then? That's scary. I don't know if I'd notice if I got one. Is ignorance such a crime?

Of course, the taxi driver may also have been unaware the note was fake.

Nah, the thought would never have crossed my mind. I mean why should anyone want to do that? Its illegal after all.

The shop keeper should have declined the sale, tipped you the wink to get rid of the note somewhere else.
But legally, he was right to call the police.

The police treated you badly and I hope the supposed criminal case dies real soon.

Spending 50s when its dark, you've had a few, with an unknowd trader is always a bit dodgy.
Maybe the taxi driver deliberately passed it to you, maybe not.

I bet I wouldn't notice either. In fact I paid a taxi driver with a 50 just the other day (that one you flagged down for me actually, coolerking!) and barely even looked at the change. Will be more careful now!

Maybe the taxi driver was related to these guys?

Oh hmm well, yes, i did get one or two ... of course i immediatly destroyed them .
I think the correct behavior is to call the cops. Oh yes, i think thats what i did, i am having trouble remembering...

I think it is indeed even a crime if you are ignorant of the fact you're passing on a fake note (the German (colloquial) term would be 'Blüte' btw).
It is probable that the Staatsanwalt considers the pursuit of your crime to not be in the public interest tho, as long as he is convinced that you were unaware.

This is where the real ignorance lies with fake notes in circulation. Its one thing not to be able to spot one, but to spot one and then allow the person who gave it to you to walk away is just plain stupid.

Shopkeepers and staff should not give back the note. What are you going to do...call the police?

If the police want to take such a tough line, it would be helpful for honest, law-abiding folk if they would put in a bit more effort to raise public awareness, like putting posters in public places or distributing leaflets to households, to let people know how to recognise a forgery.

Wow, is that standard procedure how the police treated you?
I have never received a fake note, at least not that I know of anyway...

I hope they drop the charges against you, I mean you were really the victim of a crime not a criminal (though apparently it is a crime to pass on fake money even if you are not aware of it).

I'd also try to trace the cab driver. Don't know if he was knew it was fake or not, but if he did, that would help your case as well as protect others from the situation you are in now.

Yeah I think just letting someone spend the fake money elsewhere is pretty damn stupid. Even though coolerking may have been a victim here, many people are not, and they spend fake money on purpose.

By the way, if you don't realize you got a fake note right away, you have to turn it in to the police without receiving a compensation. I am pretty sure the shop keeper not only had the right but also the legal duty to call the police.

i know, but the things you will do when you are young and someone offers to sell you 3K in £20 notes for £500. Not the best move on the planet i agree, but i guess if i were in that position i would have chucked them on the fire when i got close to making my money back.

its pretty standard in th UK.

Who loses in the end?
The poor frigging punter!

A friend of mine once got some UK 20s from a large Munich bank and got a fake.
This was back in the day when 20 quid was 20 quid.

A barman spotted it and declined to accept it in payment but gave it back.
Said note was used as a cash payment to a VERY large corporation who could more afford to live with the loss than my friend could.

@ GreanTea, the ECB spent a FORTUNE on counterfeit awareness and anti-forgery stuff.
It's the feel, it's the colurs, its the hologram, its the watermarks etc etc.
But in a hurry, in the dark, had a few drinks etc etc it is harder to tell.

That would be a mere 6:1 - definetly a ripoff. 10:1 is the going rate for real good ones. Atleast, thats what it used to be back when i accidentally overheard such a conversation

My girlfirend changed some sterling to euro at the Bureau de Change at Gatwick when coming to visit me in Dublin a number of years back. She gave all the money to me, as she was insistent on this particular occasion that she wanted to pay for everything on the trip. Well, as the evening wore on we went to a night club, and as I already had spent all my own cash I ordered the first round of drink with fifty euro out of her money. The guy at the bar said it was fake and I said it couldn't be as she had got it at the airport and he asked to look at the rest of the notes, which I complied with. Then the bugger held onto all the money and rang the guards.

My girlfriend and I explained what had happened and even produced the receipt for changing the money. However, the guards who were pig ignorant arrested and charged her with handling fake money. They even banged her up in the cells overnight. Strange thing is she was a lawyer so maybe her insistence on knowing her rights probably exacerbated the situation. It was all sorted out the next day and she ended up getting compensation from the peelers and the Bureau De Change.

It just goes to show that anyone can pass fake notes. I have even heard of people getting them from banks. What doesn't surprise me given my own experience is the way that the police dealt with it. good luck in getting it sorted out and if you can sue them.

Sue them for what, though? They haven't actually mistreated coolerking in any way, have they? It may all seem a bit over the top, but they can argue they were just following protocol. (Assuming they had the correct warrants to search his flat, etc.) In your gf's case it was different, they actually charged her and put her in the cells.

The liscensed premices where I am known to do the odd shift has an anti-fake policy in place.
All 50s go under the UV lamp and the bar staff are not allowed to take notes larger than a 50.

I think in such cases, simple poscession circumvents any necessity for a warrant to search your flat.

This seems like an obscene over-reaction by the Police. I know they don't have much work to do between October and August, but this is ridiculous. It is impossible to prove that you were deliberately attempting to use a forged note unless they found a whole stash of them in your wallet. If they didn't, the issue should have ended there, in my opinion.

Coolerking, illiteracy draws suspicion.

If you came across to the police as verbally illiterate as you did in your written text at the start of this thread, that might explain some of the grilling.

Next time, try an air of poshness.

That's right out of order. And frankly laughable, given some of the inane ramblings you've posted in the past.

Inane: guilty.

But I was talking about illiterate.

Produce the goods and I might be pursuaded.

Your move, show me illiteracy.

(btw, I always have bad dealings with cops. They can sense my inaneness, for starters.)

If you mean you'd like to see examples of your own illiteracy, that's not the point: I haven't accused you of being illiterate. I was merely pointing out how laughable it is to attack someone else for poor expression when your own would be just as likely to arouse suspicion if you spoke as you sometimes write. I often wonder what the hell you're on when I read your posts. However, I like to think that if you posted about an (obviously quite upsetting) encounter with the police, I'd be sensitive enough to refrain from suggesting it was probably all your fault because you failed to exude "an air of poshness". I also think it's a bit much to extrapolate that from coolerking's post - not many people use quite the same manner on this board as they would in a police investigation.

20 quid is still 20 quid as is 20€ to some people. Dont blame the banks, its the counterfitters that are the ones that need to be stopped. But while knobs tossers like the barman you mention hand fake notes back in to circulation, there will always be a problem.

The problem is, the person who doesn't put it into circulation sits on the loss.
That is a LOT more pain for an individual than a massive company.

I think the barman recognised that. Legally he was obliged to retain the note; but perhaps
he asked himself why should he play judge and jury over someone who had just had bad luck?

Again Bollox. The Barman realised it would be far more hassle to keep the note.

Again, the real victim in the end is the unsuspcting person who dont realise they have a fake note. The banks are not to blame, they are victims also, after all arent they controlling interest rates and trying to stop some fuckwit/mafia/terrorist/pikey organisation from producing new counterfits.

The banks spend massive amonts of money to try and stop this, but in the end, they will always find a way around it. We can help by turning in fake notes.

I'd have to go off and find the thread, but you said 'Tough shit on the retailer' - You really are a fucknuckle arent you! No, tough shit on us, WE are the ones paying fairly and honestly, THEY are stealing from us. In the end WE will end up paying for it. No doubt you will end up complaining for paying more for your goods, but not the counterfitters, cos no way it could be their fault.

I some how got handed a fake pound coin - the other day. Once I realised it was fake as it wouldn't go into any cash machine too light...I've just kept it and will dispose of it.

Have to agree with the people who are saying it is a bit harsh...I understand the police have to double check as you could be part of the gang that produced or distributes the false notes but I hope it all sorts itself out as soon as possible.

Good luck

Property is theft man.

When someone prints fake money and / or brings it into circulation he is taking a risk, and capitalism rewards the risk you take with your capital (in this case the capital is his freedom and ingenuity, and the reward is the money he gets from selling the fakes. Plain capitalism really.
Now if you continue to say that in fact capitalism rips the common man off, that everyone who owns property above the avarage steals it from those below, then i wouldnt object. But sticking to some weird and paradox property morals ... cmon.



right i'm gone, the Ubahn doesnt wait, not even for me ^^

It sounds as good a reason as any I've heard for always getting a receipt off a taxi driver, but after being stiffed in Buenos Aires I'd rather err on the side of caution, even in the safe haven of Minga. It's amazing that something as complex as a 20 yoyo note can be facsimulated, but I suppose where there's a will there's a way. Aren't they made somewhere along that road between Miesbach and Tegernsee, there's a long lefthand bend in the road and on your right there's a printers, that was at one stage the Deitschmark mint?

To be honest, even if you did find the taxi driver...I'm sure he would deny handing over a fake 20 Euro note and since is it cash - a receipt or not doesn't or wouldn't prove wear it came from. The only way it would help if he was part of the gang and the police could link him to it (or had a criminal record maybe but then would he be a taxi driver?) . If he is not and just as innocent as you then he will just no I never passed over a fake note or prove it came from me...

Hope you get a go lawyer and work out how best to work thru it - and defo don't let them give you a criminal record even if it means paying any fine.

Like I said before best of luck

3 Lions, skin one up mate and chill

You are right that the mug at the end of the day is the person who ends up sitting on that fake note.
But I don't get your distinction that it is "unsuspecting" or unknowing that is the key issue.

There's already been 2 examples mentioned on here of financial institutions giving out faked notes.
Assuming they did so unknowingly they are under your logic absolved of any blame and tough shit on the individual customers they pass them off on for whom the financial burden is much higher.

Just occurred to me, about a year ago or so a Munich granny wanted to immediately move some money between 2 accounts at different banks so she withdrew some money on (say) a €500 note and went over the road to pay it in her other account where it was refused as a fake. She kicked up a major fuss (including the TZ IIRC) and the original bank had to say (of course with no admission of liability) that they would re-credit the money.

Should dear old Granny Müller just have shrugged her shoulders at losing that month's pension cos MegaBank AG was an "innocent party" ???

Like as may be, 'tis probably better to have the last link in the foodchain up to yourself on a receipt than a shrugged shoulder and an "wa'n't me Guv" approach. Correlate that with a bank statement of your last withdrawal, presuming that you went to the Drinklink before getting the taxi and you stand in better stead to argue your case, n'est pas? Fits better into the German culture of blameology than simply implicating the taxi driver from the night before. But then again, who's gonna be driving a taxi and stand up and say "yep, it was me, terribly sorry I'll stop hangin out with those mad Serbians if it makes things better for this complete stranger". One can't win but has a better theoretical standing with a piece of paper that can be proven to be the last point of transaction: "it says so here, I tendered him this large denomination, he gave me change of this amount, I've been asleep for 3 hours and became hungry, therefore I am here looking for a Butterbreze with this false 20 I most likely got off this taxi driver on this receipt that I paid for with a fifty that I wouldn't have gotten from the DrinkLink had I the funds to take the taxi." Ach, it's a big pile of Catch 22 if ever there was one. I still reckon the taxi receipt is better than nowt.

In general, I agree it is best to get as much evidence to support your story even if it not the silver bullet that proves your innocence.

Question do financial institutions take down the serial number of their notes? One reason it is easier to trace it back to a bank in the cases mentioned above, maybe?

That's one of the mints in Germany but they are minted in loads of places Europe wide, both state owned and commercial.
I'd always assumed a €20 was too low in value to be worth the investment needed to counterfeit but obviously not!

If this was a weekday, I could answer that in seconds, but as it's a Friday and I'm chillin' with my mouse for a change and my main banking homegirl is out getting all pissed up in Valentinsstüberl, I'll have to say "Reservoir Dogs"?
Edit: If I were a counterfeiter, I'd start with the small stuff, fivers, easier to pass off on punters, quicker to get into circulation, less likely to arouse suspicion, their prevalence dictating that the production elements are lowrent for high rate of production. A 20 seems like a gamble for a counterfeiter, short run for testing, limited penetration to suspicion ratio. But that's just my initial take on a scenario I know little about. Waffle.

From what I've heard counterfeits are normally lower denominations for the reason Punchbear mentioned. £100 notes are not seen so often even now with inflation - so can you imagine it 20 years ago what a £100 pound note was like to a shop keeper...

Also - I heard some stat once that a large % of notes are counterfeit but authorities do not advertise it too much as it would mean people lose faith in the money supply... I can imagine the banks do a lot of cleaning out of the money on behalf of the government...i.e. taking out counterfeit notes.

I'm imagining a Bollywood extravaganza kept for special occasions. Shopkeeper receives a dodgy note with 3 digits on it, roof of shop explodes into fiddlers and elephants, street throngs with bellydancers, giant hand comes down from sky with booming, thunderous voice "Oi, you cheating bastard!". In Punchbears head of course. Reality has no currency there y'see.
Speaking of reality, I'm off to the scratcher, l8rz y'all.

Wish I was in Valentinsstüberl but I'm off the drink and fags at the minute.

There are lower security features in lower value EUR notes but I'm not sure they have a huge influence on the cost of production.
Indeed, modern monetary objects aren't inherently really "worth" anything, they are bits of paper and metal.

I have no idea but taking the example mentioned above, that counterfeiting gangs sell on bundles of fake money at a tenth of the face value.
So once you had the quality up to an "acceptable" level you could sell a each faked €5 for 50 cents.
But would that cover the capital investment, the production costs and the lure of profit high enough to risk spending time in nick?

Printing dodgy 50s you could have 10 times the turnover for only X% more cost.
But maybe 20s are the sweet spot?

The funny one in the UK is when you try to buy with Scottish notes...some English establishment take a 2nd look at it wondering what the fcuk is some Scottish cultural/historical figure doing on a British note!!!

Or did I dream that one up as well...

Scottish (or Channel Island, Manx, Northern Irish) Sterling banknotes are not legal tender in England and Wales, shops can take them at their own discretion.
Probably easier to spend Euro notes in England than other banknote series of the same currency!

MonksTown,

Is that really true?...I always assumed they were and would always argue with the Shop or Bar... got away with it as well.

I suppose you can always take them to a bank and exchange them for real money? Part joke and question...

A bank is obliged to take them and give you Bank of England notes.
Banks are not allowed then to give those Scottish etc notes out, they are returned to the issuer.

A business in England and Wales can legally decline to accept them.
Though that is mostly due to staff / management ignorance that they are declined.

Except in a few places in England with a high concentration of people recently arrived from Scotland eg Kings Cross Station in London or Blackpool holiday resort the notes are very rare in England becasue they are purged from the money supply when they pass through the banks.

just when i thought it was all over i got a letter from the police that i have to come to them on tuesday 2nd april for a further chat